Stock market + alt assets plunging = ??? to your collecting or "investing"

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by premium1981

Cringe and think whatever you wish. I have been given exactly zero in my life. I went to a horrible school and barely passed. I lived the life of not being able to afford groceries. I had mice in my first house every day because I couldn't afford anything other than a run down place with holes in the subfloors. I have had my electricity cut off. I blamed others for a time early in my life. Then I decided to stop making excuses and make something of myself. Regardless to what the media tells you, everyone in middle class and above were not handed it on a silver platter. In fact, most have had to work for it. I do not know a single person who has had generational wealth handed down to them. Not one. Life is full of choices. Many make bad choices and claim their destination is because of something other than their own doing. Again, those are facts.

Want an example? Let's go take a stroll down anytown USA. Find 100 people who are "poor and unfortunate". Now, out of those 100 people, tell me how many of them waste money on alcohol, cigarettes, and/or lottery tickets. We both know what the results would be. Its CHOICES, not privilege.

People generally assume it's the "privileged" and "naive" and out-of-touch who are the big proponents of the idea of personal accountability and self-determination.

But I think it's actually those who worked their way up from poverty and became successful. They know through personal experience that it's possible to work your way up the socioeconomic ladder in America.

But the truth is, not all men or women are created equal. But America affords people opportunity if they have what it takes -- and that's all you can ask for.

[pewe]

Another historical marker to chew on: does it suggest echos for our hobby?

In 2008 the market crashed. At the time the downturn was partially (mostly?) blamed on subprime mortgages and people flipping homes driving up prices to an unsustainable level at which point the bubble popped.

Later research discovered that while it was a convenient scapegoat to blame subprime/flippers, they weren’t the issue. It was actually wealthy prime borrowers that overextended themselves on a 2nd and 3rd vacation property. They started backing out en mass, and the banks had little margin of error on these prime loans and were stuck with properties in tough to move locations.

Could we imagine a very different story than the one I feel like we enjoy whipping??? That flippers and gamblers and “investors” actually aren’t the problem. It’s actually the “wealthy” collectors who become forced to move to cash because of broader life needs? They’ve gotten caught up in the exuberance, and while they talk restraint and spending within means, they realize how much $$ is locked up on their collections. And they’d prefer to have that $$ to invest in the market or their business or something else.

I have some friends who are starting to act like this. It got me thinking…

WDYT???


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[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by pewe

Another historical marker to chew on: does it suggest echos for our hobby?

In 2008 the market crashed. At the time the downturn was partially (mostly?) blamed on subprime mortgages and people flipping homes driving up prices to an unsustainable level at which point the bubble popped.

Later research discovered that while it was a convenient scapegoat to blame subprime/flippers, they weren’t the issue. It was actually wealthy prime borrowers that overextended themselves on a 2nd and 3rd vacation property. They started backing out en mass, and the banks had little margin of error on these prime loans and were stuck with properties in tough to move locations.

Could we imagine a very different story than the one I feel like we enjoy whipping??? That flippers and gamblers and “investors” actually aren’t the problem. It’s actually the “wealthy” collectors who become forced to move to cash because of broader life needs? They’ve gotten caught up in the exuberance, and while they talk restraint and spending within means, they realize how much $$ is locked up on their collections. And they’d prefer to have that $$ to invest in the market or their business or something else.

I have some friends who are starting to act like this. It got me thinking…

WDYT???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But that would mean the wealthy are selling low, which is not what they tend to do, especially if they are losing money moving their cards.

If anything, the wealthy are the ones who can afford to keep their cards. I don't know any wealthy dudes who will take a loss on cards just to have more cash on the side - they already have enough cash.

I still think it's the hyundai leasing, investor bois who got in over the heads trying to go to the moon in their lambos - they are the ones who are forced to sell so that they don't have to go back to work in the fast food lanes - yet.

[dbpsooner]

Originally Posted by premium1981

Cringe and think whatever you wish. I have been given exactly zero in my life. I went to a horrible school and barely passed. I lived the life of not being able to afford groceries. I had mice in my first house every day because I couldn't afford anything other than a run down place with holes in the subfloors. I have had my electricity cut off. I blamed others for a time early in my life. Then I decided to stop making excuses and make something of myself. Regardless to what the media tells you, everyone in middle class and above were not handed it on a silver platter. In fact, most have had to work for it. I do not know a single person who has had generational wealth handed down to them. Not one. Life is full of choices. Many make bad choices and claim their destination is because of something other than their own doing. Again, those are facts.

Want an example? Let's go take a stroll down anytown USA. Find 100 people who are "poor and unfortunate". Now, out of those 100 people, tell me how many of them waste money on alcohol, cigarettes, and/or lottery tickets. We both know what the results would be. Its CHOICES, not privilege.

Mice in your house?!?! Parents that sent you to a “bad” school…Get out of here!! I think I speak for blowout when I say, thank goodness the good choices you made led you to a point in life where you could share such wisdom with the community here.

I swear there must be a book or website somewhere that people can copy and paste responses like this to combat the dreaded privilege conversation…it’s okay to admit that many of us have advantages that some will never have. I just wish accepting those realities wasn’t so hard for people. It doesn’t diminish the successes we have enjoyed in life.

Obviously I have been over-served per usual, so I will log off for a while.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by pewe

Another historical marker to chew on: does it suggest echos for our hobby?

In 2008 the market crashed. At the time the downturn was partially (mostly?) blamed on subprime mortgages and people flipping homes driving up prices to an unsustainable level at which point the bubble popped.

Later research discovered that while it was a convenient scapegoat to blame subprime/flippers, they weren’t the issue. It was actually wealthy prime borrowers that overextended themselves on a 2nd and 3rd vacation property. They started backing out en mass, and the banks had little margin of error on these prime loans and were stuck with properties in tough to move locations.

Could we imagine a very different story than the one I feel like we enjoy whipping??? That flippers and gamblers and “investors” actually aren’t the problem. It’s actually the “wealthy” collectors who become forced to move to cash because of broader life needs? They’ve gotten caught up in the exuberance, and while they talk restraint and spending within means, they realize how much $$ is locked up on their collections. And they’d prefer to have that $$ to invest in the market or their business or something else.

I have some friends who are starting to act like this. It got me thinking…

WDYT???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You seem to be implying two different factors for why big investors/collectors would be liquidating their collections -- a natural loss in interest in investing/collecting cards vs a feeling of financial insecurity due to recent changes in the economy or the hobby.

If they naturally lost interest in collecting/investing, then it shouldn't be a large percentage of them who are affected because it's based on an individual's own feelings and not external factors.

If it's in reaction to the changes in the economy or the hobby, it could include a large swath of big investors/collectors and cause a steep drop in prices across the board because the most valuable cards ultimately set prices and demand in the hobby.

If a lot of big investors/collectors try to liquate in this environment, the market won't be able to absorb all that expensive supply. Sellers will have to drop their prices to cash out. The question then becomes, will they accept a loss on their investments? If so, will it trigger a panic sell off where a lot of sellers take what they can get instead of being patient.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

But that would mean the wealthy are selling low, which is not what they tend to do, especially if they are losing money moving their cards.

If anything, the wealthy are the ones who can afford to keep their cards. I don't know any wealthy dudes who will take a loss on cards just to have more cash on the side - they already have enough cash.

I still think it's the hyundai leasing, investor bois who got in over the heads trying to go to the moon in their lambos - they are the ones who are forced to sell so that they don't have to go back to work in the fast food lanes - yet.

Well, maybe the well-off investors/collectors believe prices are going to continue to drop and it's a good time to cash out and spend the returns on other things.

Maybe big investors/collectors want to pare down their collections and focus only on the best of the best -- Brady rookies; Lebron rookies etc. They figure they don't need or want the second tier stuff anymore.

[SearchPatrol]

Originally Posted by pewe

Another historical marker to chew on: does it suggest echos for our hobby?

In 2008 the market crashed. At the time the downturn was partially (mostly?) blamed on subprime mortgages and people flipping homes driving up prices to an unsustainable level at which point the bubble popped.

Later research discovered that while it was a convenient scapegoat to blame subprime/flippers, they weren’t the issue. It was actually wealthy prime borrowers that overextended themselves on a 2nd and 3rd vacation property. They started backing out en mass, and the banks had little margin of error on these prime loans and were stuck with properties in tough to move locations.





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I disagree. It's the fault of who ever has the money. This was on the lending agency and politicians. Here you go, get a house you can't afford. But only pay the interest, and with home prices continuing to go up you can't lose. It was no different than how ebay now treats shill bidding. Ebay could have people pay up front, but why do that. Make the hobby look stronger than it actually is, and grab more profits. People would have not been able to get 2nd and 3rd homes if true collateral was required. And significant down payments.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Well, maybe the well-off investors/collectors believe prices are going to continue to drop and it's a good time to cash out and spend the returns on other things.

Maybe big investors/collectors want to pare down their collections and focus only on the best of the best -- Brady rookies; Lebron rookies etc. They figure they don't need or want the second tier stuff anymore.

I guess it depends when the rich folks bought their cards - maybe it doesn't even matter.

If they paid $750,000 for the psa 10 jordan, I really can't imagine why they would dump it at $250,000 and take a half a million dollar loss, especially if they could just keep the jordan for the long-term.

If they had purchased that jordan for $75,000, why would they sell it for $250,000 when they saw that it went up to $750,000? Shouldn't they have sold it at the peak? I would imagine they would be willing to wait till it gets higher again.

That's why I don't understand why the rich would want to liquidate their cards at the "market lows" - it's horrible timing and I bet those kind of rich people don't stay rich for long.

[SearchPatrol]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Maybe big investors/collectors want to pare down their collections and focus only on the best of the best -- Brady rookies; Lebron rookies etc. They figure they don't need or want the second tier stuff anymore.

Or maybe some are starting to realize that spending more on a card than on a new car is pretty follish.

[imbluestreak23]

I have a strong interest in buying today (while selling simultaneously), but quite honestly I’m running out of things I’m interested in buying.

Raw clean market has all but dried up except new cards. Oh wait, Chrome is now PSA 8/9 quality out of the pack. Panini? They haven’t had good quality in anything since 2017. Upper deck? Looks like the new young guns set came from Amazon cardboard boxes.

The great grading flood has wiped out the majority of cards sitting in boxes from 1985-2021. What hits the market is as beat up and used as a 50 year old vegas prostitute. Have capital I’d love to deploy even though the economy continues to shrink, and I’ve spent quite a pretty penny so far this year, but currently in a state of “meh” when surveying what is out there

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

I guess it depends when the rich folks bought their cards - maybe it doesn't even matter.

If they paid $750,000 for the psa 10 jordan, I really can't imagine why they would dump it at $250,000 and take a half a million dollar loss, especially if they could just keep the jordan for the long-term.

If they had purchased that jordan for $75,000, why would they sell it for $250,000 when they saw that it went up to $750,000? Shouldn't they have sold it at the peak? I would imagine they would be willing to wait till it gets higher again.

That's why I don't understand why the rich would want to liquidate their cards at the "market lows" - it's horrible timing and I bet those kind of rich people don't stay rich for long.

I wasn't thinking of Jordan rookies. His gem mint rookie is like a status symbol for well-off/wealthy basketball fans. Similar to Logan Paul and his Charizard 1st Edition. Or the 52 Topps Mantle that Ken Kendrick owns.

I was thinking newer players who are Hall of Famer caliber but not GOAT worthy.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by SearchPatrol

I disagree. It's the fault of who ever has the money. This was on the lending agency and politicians. Here you go, get a house you can't afford. But only pay the interest, and with home prices continuing to go up you can't lose. It was no different than how ebay now treats shill bidding. Ebay could have people pay up front, but why do that. Make the hobby look stronger than it actually is, and grab more profits. People would have not been able to get 2nd and 3rd homes if true collateral was required. And significant down payments.

It was a gradual drop in lending standards and lax regulatory enforcement paired with widespread securitization of debt and the growth of international financial markets. US Politicians supported easy money because it was popular with voters and Wall Street and because it inflated the economy.

It became a systemic problem -- top down.

I remember how easy it was to get a credit card or loan. It felt wrong.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

I wasn't thinking of Jordan rookies. His gem mint rookie is like a status symbol for well-off/wealthy basketball fans. Similar to Logan Paul and his Charizard 1st Edition. Or the 52 Topps Mantle that Ken Kendrick owns.

I was thinking newer players who are Hall of Famer caliber but not GOAT worthy.

The same rationale could work for someone who paid $10,000 for a 2016 bowman chrome auto Tatis PSA 10.

If you're rich, why lose $7000 and dump it at $3k, just hold on and pray he doesn't get hurt again.

Or if you're rich and paid $500 for a PSA 10, why sell at $3k when you've seen them at $10k. Maybe you have 10 copies and want to secure some profits I suppose? But you really don't need the money so why not let it ride?

However, the ex-Mcdonald's employee who paid $10k for it hoping to flip it for $50k doesn't have the time to sit on it, he's gotta dump it because he needs to pay off his cell phone bill, credit card bills from getting into too many breaks, etc. and he doesn't want to put the uni back on, you know, the one with the golden arches.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

The same rationale could work for someone who paid $10,000 for a 2016 bowman chrome auto Tatis PSA 10.

If you're rich, why lose $7000 and dump it at $3k, just hold on and pray he doesn't get hurt again.

Or if you're rich and paid $500 for a PSA 10, why sell at $3k when you've seen them at $10k. Maybe you have 10 copies and want to secure some profits I suppose? But you really don't need the money so why not let it ride?

However, the ex-Mcdonald's employee who paid $10k for it hoping to flip it for $50k doesn't have the time to sit on it, he's gotta dump it because he needs to pay off his cell phone bill, credit card bills from getting into too many breaks, etc. and he doesn't want to put the uni back on, you know, the one with the golden arches.

Tatis is a bad example because he's been injury prone and still has a vulnerable shoulder that could get worse as he ages. He's high risk to hold long term.

The main reason to sell now is because you believe prices will continue to drop. So even though a card peaked at a much higher price during the pandemic bubble, you sell now because you don't want to lose more value. The future of the hobby and players are uncertain.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Tatis is a bad example because he's been injury prone and still has a vulnerable shoulder that could get worse as he ages. He's high risk to hold long term.

The main reason to sell now is because you believe prices will continue to drop. So even though a card peaked at a much higher price during the pandemic bubble, you sell now because you don't want to lose more value. The future of the hobby and players are uncertain.

But many are in a situation where they think their "chosen one" card prices will go nowhere but up, but are forced to sell because the economy has changed.

Whereas last year when they quit their fast food jobs while everything went up to the moon, Mcdonald's had to increase their hourly wages to over $16/hour just to hire people. But the moon bois refused to go back because they were flipping retail boxes for 4-5x. I mean, why flip burgers when you can brawl at Walmart and earn more by flipping blasters.

With cards dropping now, however, instead of buying more to double down, those investor bois are now forced to sell EVEN THOUGH THEY DON'T WANT TO cause they can no longer hodl strong with their diamond hands for moon prices.

The only good news is that your service may be more efficient when you order your double quarter pounder with cheese because Mcdonald's won't be as short-staffed - those investor bois were forced to sell not because the cards were going down, but they had to because they overdid their group breaks and were in credit card debt.

And now, they're asking if you want fries with your order instead of negotiating $50k for their Tatis chrome autos.

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

It was a gradual drop in lending standards and lax regulatory enforcement paired with widespread securitization of debt and the growth of international financial markets. US Politicians supported easy money because it was popular with voters and Wall Street and because it inflated the economy.

It became a systemic problem -- top down.

I remember how easy it was to get a credit card or loan. It felt wrong.

And back then — I did so many sub-prime mortgage loans for the Nations largest lender, my kids still say to this day “ I single handedly wrecked the world wide economy “

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by dbpsooner

I swear there must be a book or website somewhere that people can copy and paste responses like this to combat the dreaded privilege conversation…it’s okay to admit that many of us have advantages that some will never have. I just wish accepting those realities wasn’t so hard for people. It doesn’t diminish the successes we have enjoyed in life.

Obviously I have been over-served per usual, so I will log off for a while.

Its interesting that your only responses have been been screaming PRIVILEGE, PRIVILEGE, PRIVILEGE, PRIVILEGE! Without discounting my statement about changing your circumstances.

So let me change it up a bit to make you happy. I am actually a plantation owner who lives in Charleston, South Carolina. My billions were made off the backs of others. I was literally fed top of the line baby food with a silver spoon. I didn't even have to learn to read, I was born with that ability.

Now, tell me how that changes what I said. How does this prevent someone else from changing the circumstances they were born into and deciding that they wanted to do more with their life and making it happen? You haven't answered that other than to point fingers at the "privilege" that others have.

Please, do share and enlighten us.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

I guess it depends when the rich folks bought their cards - maybe it doesn't even matter.

If they paid $750,000 for the psa 10 jordan, I really can't imagine why they would dump it at $250,000 and take a half a million dollar loss, especially if they could just keep the jordan for the long-term.

If they had purchased that jordan for $75,000, why would they sell it for $250,000 when they saw that it went up to $750,000? Shouldn't they have sold it at the peak? I would imagine they would be willing to wait till it gets higher again.

That's why I don't understand why the rich would want to liquidate their cards at the "market lows" - it's horrible timing and I bet those kind of rich people don't stay rich for long.

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

You seem to be implying two different factors for why big investors/collectors would be liquidating their collections -- a natural loss in interest in investing/collecting cards vs a feeling of financial insecurity due to recent changes in the economy or the hobby.

If they naturally lost interest in collecting/investing, then it shouldn't be a large percentage of them who are affected because it's based on an individual's own feelings and not external factors.

If it's in reaction to the changes in the economy or the hobby, it could include a large swath of big investors/collectors and cause a steep drop in prices across the board because the most valuable cards ultimately set prices and demand in the hobby.

If a lot of big investors/collectors try to liquate in this environment, the market won't be able to absorb all that expensive supply. Sellers will have to drop their prices to cash out. The question then becomes, will they accept a loss on their investments? If so, will it trigger a panic sell off where a lot of sellers take what they can get instead of being patient.

Reminder: just a thought starter. But I think the effect might be different than you imply. It may be more demand side, than supply side dumping (but some of both possible).

Let me paint the picture of Joe (fictional, but based loosely on people I understand got in real estate trouble in 2008, and are similar to folks now I hear debating some moves in their collecting).

Joe is a mid-40s yr old successful partner at a law firm (or a exec for a tech company or partner at a consulting firm or dental practice owner etc) earning $1mm/year (pre tax). He’s been enjoying years of nice personal cash flow on the back of a strong market. He’s got a wife and 3 kids who are still a few years from college, has a primary home and secondary vacation property, both with substantial mortgages (rates are low! Take advantage). Likes to lease the latest car. And the family is used to skiing every winter from a rental house (the vacation property is at the beach). His kids go to private school and do tons of extracurriculars. He and wife like to get away and they pay regularly for babysitting/part time nanny. He tithes regularly to his church, and donates to his alma maters and kids schools. His life expenses, while a lot, only use up 80-90% of the post tax income.

Some friends got him back into collecting, as things heated up. He re-caught the bug he had as a kid in the 80s. Enjoys picking up all the cards he couldn’t afford as a kid. Having $$ to actually rip wax. It snowballs from spending $5k/yr to $100k+ over a few years.

The market crashes. His stable income dropped as the partner distribution halves. His stock market investments are off 50%. He’s going to have to sell assets to cover life expenses, or cut back on some expenses. Or both.

The family resists any pullback on their spend.

And he has a $100k/year collecting habit. And maybe $500k+ in “eBay value” of cards after appreciation.

What does he do???

[Pacmeyer]

Originally Posted by pewe

Reminder: just a thought starter. But I think the effect might be different than you imply. It maybe more demand side, than supply side dumping (but some of both possible).

Let me paint the picture of Joe (fictional, but based loosely on people who got in real estate trouble in 2008, and are similar to folks now I hear debating some moves in their collecting).

Joe is a mid-40s yr old successful partner at a law firm (or a exec for a tech company or partner at a consulting firm or dental practice owner etc) earning $1mm/year (pre tax). He’s been enjoying years of nice personal cash flow on the back of a strong market. He’s got a wife and 3 kids who are still a few years from college, has a primary home and secondary vacation property, both with substantial mortgages (rates are low! Take advantage). Likes to lease the latest car. And the family is used to skiing every winter from a rental house (the vacation property is at the beach). His kids do tons of extracurriculars, and they pay regularly for babysitting/part time nanny. He tithes regularly to chis church, and donates to his alma maters and kids schools. His life expenses, while a lot, only use up 80-90% of the post tax income.

Some friends got him back into collecting, as things heated up. He re-caught the bug he had as a kid in the 80s. Enjoys picking up all the cards he couldn’t afford as a kid. Having $$ to actually rip wax. It snowballs from spending $5k/yr to $100k+ over a few years.

The market crashes. His stable income dropped as the partner distribution halves. His stock market investments are off 50%. He’s going to have to sell assets to cover life expenses, or cut back on some expenses. Or both.

The family resists any pullback on their spend.

And he has a $100k/year collecting habit.

What does he do???

The vacation home should be the first thing to go. If the wife and kids want him to sell his collection, they would need to give up something too. It's only fair but let's face it... a lot of women hoard things with no resale value (i.e. a lot of worthless crap).

[pewe]

Originally Posted by Pacmeyer

The vacation home should be the first thing to go. If the wife and kids want him to sell his collection, they would need to give up something too. It's only fair but let's face it... a lot of women hoard things with no resale value (i.e. a lot of worthless crap).

Haha! I know this has some jest to it… but the vacation home: market totally locks up. No one buying. Do you take a $200k+ equity / cash hit to sell it? Even then it might not move quick.

You need cash NOW!


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[Phoneboy]

This thread is interesting to me.

A few random thoughts without quoting and replying...

The Jordan rookie hit $738k for exactly one weekend.

I agree with Premium's thoughts on improving your situation, but it takes a certain amount of intelligence, work ethic, and luck....at least it did for me. In 1995, I was 26 years old, working at a video store making $5.75/hour, and living with my parents. I convinced a guy to take a chance on me. If not for him, I wouldn't be where I am now.

Pewe's narrative about the lawyer is spot on. While he might sell, he doesn't have to sell to affect prices. If you have enough people deploying cash elsewhere, you see a drop in prices. Does he totally quit buying? Does he quit buying modern and stick with vintage? Personally, I've stopped buying anything. The cash that I have is going into the stock market. I'm not a lawyer or an investment banker, but I dumped a ton of money into cards over the past 3 years.

On the Rolex market, I have friends who play in this space. They have connections with jewelers, and are flipping Rolex watches as a side hustle. It's crazy to see these prices. $200,000 for a platinum Daytona?

[soicanbefree]

Originally Posted by pewe

Haha! I know this has some jest to it… but the vacation home: market totally locks up. No one buying. Do you take a $200k+ equity / cash hit to sell it? Even then it might not move quick.

You need cash NOW!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

😆 Makes me sick that people live like this but I know they do.

I don't know why you are fighting this so hard. You already know what he does and what goes first.

The husband's collectibles are the most fungible from both a practical and an emotional perspective.

[soicanbefree]

On the Rolex market, I have friends who play in this space. They have connections with jewelers, and are flipping Rolex watches as a side hustle. It's crazy to see these prices. $200,000 for a platinum Daytona?

Fun game until you get stuck. Sold 4 of my 7 over the last 12 months. 50k basis sold out for slightly over 100K.

The 3 I have left are hold forever pieces.

There is NO BID in this market at the moment from dealers. Should tell you a lot about where things are heading.

[Phoneboy]

Originally Posted by soicanbefree

Fun game until you get stuck. Sold 4 of my 7 over the last 12 months. 50k basis sold out for slightly over 100K.

The 3 I have left are hold forever pieces.

There is NO BID in this market at the moment from dealers. Should tell you a lot about where things are heading.

I have a few, but nothing for sale and nothing that has gone nuts. I've got a Smurf, Explorer Ii, a blacked out stainless Daytona (which makes my dealer nauseous), and my grandfather's stainless Datejust.

[rj.cataldo]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

But that would mean the wealthy are selling low, which is not what they tend to do, especially if they are losing money moving their cards.

If anything, the wealthy are the ones who can afford to keep their cards. I don't know any wealthy dudes who will take a loss on cards just to have more cash on the side - they already have enough cash.

I still think it's the hyundai leasing, investor bois who got in over the heads trying to go to the moon in their lambos - they are the ones who are forced to sell so that they don't have to go back to work in the fast food lanes - yet.

I think this makes a lot of assumptions about why the “wealthy” are in the hobby to begin with and how wealthy they really are. I think it’s fair to say that most people who are truly wealthy are not wealthy because of the hobby. They derive their wealth from other sources and the hobby is either a small investment, a side hobby, or an avenue for them to gain status by accumulating big collections.

If the hobby declines in value or status plenty of people will simply decide to move on. They will get bored and find other avenues to spend. People who are truly wealthy can afford to make mistakes, especially if it’s not a material portion of their wealth. If someone who is truly wealthy is in this hobby for investing, has lost interest in the “collecting” component, and truly a savy investor they will not hold on to a losing investment if they foresee greater returns in other asset classes.


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