***Official 2025 Detroit Tigers Thread***

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by regularp

Can someone explain what the hell Hinch is doing with these lineups? Having that scrub Colt Keith hit third with the way he's struggling is malpractice. How come no one can hit in the same spot more than three games in a row?

They have had 26 different lineups in 29 games.

Because Carp can't bat 3rd, obvs.

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by regularp

Can someone explain what the hell Hinch is doing with these lineups? Having that scrub Colt Keith hit third with the way he's struggling is malpractice. How come no one can hit in the same spot more than three games in a row?

They have had 26 different lineups in 29 games.

Since the Tigers are not built on a roster full of stud position players but built more on “Money Ball” which means they look at how their position players perform against an opposing pitcher. The Tigers hitters have done much better than what I would have guessed. Detroit doesn’t have that 3 hitter, Tork has done very well floating through 4 & 5. As far as a 5 it’s been like every lineup, different. Hinch doesn’t have the experienced players who fit the 3-5 but has done a great job so far.

[bub838]

Originally Posted by Stifle

Since the Tigers are not built on a roster full of stud position players but built more on “Money Ball” which means they look at how their position players perform against an opposing pitcher. The Tigers hitters have done much better than what I would have guessed. Detroit doesn’t have that 3 hitter, Tork has done very well floating through 4 & 5. As far as a 5 it’s been like every lineup, different. Hinch doesn’t have the experienced players who fit the 3-5 but has done a great job so far.

Tell me you didn't understand Moneyball, without telling me you didn't understand Moneyball.

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by bub838

Tell me you didn't understand Moneyball, without telling me you didn't understand Moneyball.

It’s called high position players cost more than finding players who can contribute to wanting the needs being matched at a lesser cost. The Tigers are nearly what the Oakland A’s were in 12 and 13. Great starters and deep bullpen with solid fielding with enough hitting. Then come playoffs we rely on who to get the big hit like the A’s did in 12 & 13 ?

It’s like telling JV over and over that Carpenter is better suited as a number 2 because he hits like garbage when runners are in scoring position and going 3-25 isn’t clicking with him. Detroit has stated that they will play the analytical game, that’s not my opinion that is facts. My opinion is that we don’t have the experienced 3-5 hitters where 1 or two would stand out as that clutch guy. We don’t have experienced hitters in those batting slots but like the A’s, it’s not about waiting on a clutch hitter but waiting for the guy who matches up better just enough to provide a winning margin.

Detroit isn’t getting the Mags, Miggy’s, VMarts or Prince Fielders because of cost. Interchangeable parts who fit the needs is what Detroit is doing positionally. That could be why some Tiger fans are questioning the ever changing lineups / batting orders. Our lineups and batting orders from 12 & 13 were pretty much 7+ strong on a daily basis.

I’ll gladly take the Tigers record with the what offensive pieces they gave to work with!

[base set]

Originally Posted by regularp

They have had 26 different lineups in 29 games.

Welp, there goes the quest to break AJ’s own record of 161 different line-ups. There’s always next year, en beisból.

[Stifle]

Tigers with their draft selected pitchers are 11-4 this season. The added pieces of Olson, Flaherty and a couple in the pen have solidified this team.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by Stifle

It’s like telling JV over and over that Carpenter is better suited as a number 2 because he hits like garbage when runners are in scoring position and going 3-25 isn’t clicking with him.

He sure hit like garbage last year with his almost 1000 OPS wRISP!!

Seriously do you believe what you say? Good hitters hit, period. I don't know how you are so dense.

[regularp]

I know JV is gonna clutch his pearls but Colt Keith not being sent down yet is indefensible. He is an absolute train wreck who's admitted his confidence is shot.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by regularp

I know JV is gonna clutch his pearls but Colt Keith not being sent down yet is indefensible. He is an absolute train wreck who's admitted his confidence is shot.

I'm not some Colt Keith guy, I just think/thought reacting to 5 game sample sizes like you and stifle do is idiotic.

[hairysasquatch]

Another W today!

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

I'm not some Colt Keith guy, I just think/thought reacting to 5 game sample sizes like you and stifle do is idiotic.

He is a inexpensive 2B who nobody is going to mistake for Omar Infante or Lou Whitaker when looking at the offensive or defensive stats. Has played in 28 games and had only his 3rd XBH. He can run but at 6’2 210+ I’m sure Detroit was hoping for more pop but he gets on by walking a decent amount. As far as being on the Col-train, eh, I’ll agree with JV but only because he is a bottom of the barrel salary guy who the Tigers are hoping will have it click. If he plays the next 1/6th of the season at the same level, then the last 108 games or 2/3rds of the season the Tigers might want to think of searching for a 2B who in a playoff series doesn’t receive the luxury of a large sample size the way JV wants all players to receive. It’s here and now therefore produce and Keith had better do more of that than having the Tigers carry him in a post season lineup. Do you understand that JV?

[bub838]

Originally Posted by Stifle

It’s called high position players cost more than finding players who can contribute to wanting the needs being matched at a lesser cost. The Tigers are nearly what the Oakland A’s were in 12 and 13. Great starters and deep bullpen with solid fielding with enough hitting. Then come playoffs we rely on who to get the big hit like the A’s did in 12 & 13 ?

It’s like telling JV over and over that Carpenter is better suited as a number 2 because he hits like garbage when runners are in scoring position and going 3-25 isn’t clicking with him. Detroit has stated that they will play the analytical game, that’s not my opinion that is facts. My opinion is that we don’t have the experienced 3-5 hitters where 1 or two would stand out as that clutch guy. We don’t have experienced hitters in those batting slots but like the A’s, it’s not about waiting on a clutch hitter but waiting for the guy who matches up better just enough to provide a winning margin.

Detroit isn’t getting the Mags, Miggy’s, VMarts or Prince Fielders because of cost. Interchangeable parts who fit the needs is what Detroit is doing positionally. That could be why some Tiger fans are questioning the ever changing lineups / batting orders. Our lineups and batting orders from 12 & 13 were pretty much 7+ strong on a daily basis.

I’ll gladly take the Tigers record with the what offensive pieces they gave to work with!

You're really close in the first sentence to demonstrating what Moneyball is about, then you go on your usual Stifle rant. "Clutch", RISP, and small sample sizes are the antithesis of what Moneyball (and Sabermetrics) are about.

[bub838]

Originally Posted by Stifle

He is a inexpensive 2B who nobody is going to mistake for Omar Infante or Lou Whitaker when looking at the offensive or defensive stats. Has played in 28 games and had only his 3rd XBH. He can run but at 6’2 210+ I’m sure Detroit was hoping for more pop but he gets on by walking a decent amount. As far as being on the Col-train, eh, I’ll agree with JV but only because he is a bottom of the barrel salary guy who the Tigers are hoping will have it click. If he plays the next 1/6th of the season at the same level, then the last 108 games or 2/3rds of the season the Tigers might want to think of searching for a 2B who in a playoff series doesn’t receive the luxury of a large sample size the way JV wants all players to receive. It’s here and now therefore produce and Keith had better do more of that than having the Tigers carry him in a post season lineup. Do you understand that JV?

Omar Infante was terrible. If Colt Keith ends up like Omar Infante he will be a colossal disappointment.

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by bub838

Omar Infante was terrible. If Colt Keith ends up like Omar Infante he will be a colossal disappointment.

Bubs, with a statement saying Infante was terrible just exposed what little to any baseball you believed you knew. Infante batted .318 in 13 and was stellar as a 2B before the collision rules were adopted in 14. Being a infielder in those days was much different than you probably never seen or just plain forgot. Todays infielder can take out his cell, do a blog and complete a double play without the threat of a player taking them to the outfield. It amazes me that the rule has only been in place 12 seasons and many fans forget that lots of errors were caused by lousy relays do to contested GIDP’s. Yes Bubs, Keith never experienced those days. Keith has 3 errors this season as a 2B for 22 of the 30 games as a 2B. Keith is by no means Infante in the field.

Infante played in the 06, 12 and 14 World Series. KC welcomed Infante who helped them in 14. Keith is young but as of right now, there is in no situation I place Keith in the lineup before Infante, none.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by Stifle

He is a inexpensive 2B who nobody is going to mistake for Omar Infante or Lou Whitaker when looking at the offensive or defensive stats. Has played in 28 games and had only his 3rd XBH. He can run but at 6’2 210+ I’m sure Detroit was hoping for more pop but he gets on by walking a decent amount. As far as being on the Col-train, eh, I’ll agree with JV but only because he is a bottom of the barrel salary guy who the Tigers are hoping will have it click. If he plays the next 1/6th of the season at the same level, then the last 108 games or 2/3rds of the season the Tigers might want to think of searching for a 2B who in a playoff series doesn’t receive the luxury of a large sample size the way JV wants all players to receive. It’s here and now therefore produce and Keith had better do more of that than having the Tigers carry him in a post season lineup. Do you understand that JV?

It's a 162 game season, if you're really worried about such small samples (like 5 games, which is a sample you sure like using) you're stressing yourself out and not being rational.

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

It's a 162 game season, if you're really worried about such small samples (like 5 games, which is a sample you sure like using) you're stressing yourself out and not being rational.

How many World Series have you been around to witness a Detroit team win ? I remember receiving a jacket in 68 with all the teams names but don’t recall any of the games at 4 years of age. It’s been over 4 decades therefore these opportunities as Tiger fans become vital. Last year the first series vs Houston was a best of 3. Yeh, even the smallest of sample sizes in the highest leverages carry weight.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by Stifle

How many World Series have you been around to witness a Detroit team win ? I remember receiving a jacket in 68 with all the teams names but don’t recall any of the games at 4 years of age. It’s been over 4 decades therefore these opportunities as Tiger fans become vital. Last year the first series vs Houston was a best of 3. Yeh, even the smallest of sample sizes in the highest leverages carry weight.

Let me appeal to your logic here. Justin Verlander, remember him? Spent many years sucking in April. 4-5 starts. Should we have discarded him because of it?

If Colt Keith looked/looks like this in a game that really matters, do what you want with him, but reacting viscerally to Kerry Carpenter going 1-12 or Riley Greene being 2-15 in the middle of the regular season is beyond dumb. I'm sure even Babe Ruth has a 1-15 in there somewhere.

[regularp]

I'm here for the Omar Infante talk.

[bub838]

Originally Posted by Stifle

How many World Series have you been around to witness a Detroit team win ? I remember receiving a jacket in 68 with all the teams names but don’t recall any of the games at 4 years of age. It’s been over 4 decades therefore these opportunities as Tiger fans become vital. Last year the first series vs Houston was a best of 3. Yeh, even the smallest of sample sizes in the highest leverages carry weight.

Oh, I understand now. You’re senile.

[bub838]

Originally Posted by Stifle

Bubs, with a statement saying Infante was terrible just exposed what little to any baseball you believed you knew. Infante batted .318 in 13 and was stellar as a 2B before the collision rules were adopted in 14. Being a infielder in those days was much different than you probably never seen or just plain forgot. Todays infielder can take out his cell, do a blog and complete a double play without the threat of a player taking them to the outfield. It amazes me that the rule has only been in place 12 seasons and many fans forget that lots of errors were caused by lousy relays do to contested GIDP’s. Yes Bubs, Keith never experienced those days. Keith has 3 errors this season as a 2B for 22 of the 30 games as a 2B. Keith is by no means Infante in the field.

Infante played in the 06, 12 and 14 World Series. KC welcomed Infante who helped them in 14. Keith is young but as of right now, there is in no situation I place Keith in the lineup before Infante, none.

His career slash line is .271/.308./.387/.695 and an average infielder. He was the definition of roster filler. You’re really telling me because he happened to be on three WS rosters that makes him good?

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by bub838

His career slash line is .271/.308./.387/.695 and an average infielder. He was the definition of roster filler. You’re really telling me because he happened to be on three WS rosters that makes him good?

What makes him good was that he was professional in terms of doing what was needed. Did he only make 1 All Star roster with Atlanta, yes. He didn’t last 15 years going to teams that said we can plug in a cheap salary player with little experience and hope he can suffice the same as what Detroit is doing today. Detroit in 12 needed a solid experienced player and picked Infante. Omar in 14 knew his value and KC kindly paid to have that experienced piece to their team where they just ended up short in a 7 game series.

If you are lumping in a experienced Infante to the likes of Keith then I will kindly dismiss any replies because Infante was to the truest sense a guy who didn’t have much pop but knew how to increase the teams odds of winning with running the bases extremely well, sacrificing at the plate, playing the field to a higher standard and hitting when it mattered. Multiple teams fighting for pennants didn’t go out seeking Infante because he was a C. Keith like player !

[Stifle]

Bubs & JV, who is that everyday player who in a short series is going to produce when the leverage is at it’s highest ? Correct, nobody, we had the list that I gave you and that is why a Infante was valuable because he wasn’t counted on to carry that weight. Leyland had slow moving base runners who were counted on as clutch hitters, Mags, Miggy, Prince, VMart and even Delmon Young. We were the slowest biggest team but kept picking up those pieces on offense to contend. Wish Detroit would have had a stud reliever in 11-13. The team we have now can’t afford to have a player in a short series to be a guy who only walks. This team doesn’t have a experienced “IT” guy, yet, like the names shown though Prince was a dud his whole career when the stakes were raised, playoffs.

[JustinVerlander07]

I've seen it all. I think stifle just likes the glory years if we're praising a career utility guy like Infante.

[bub838]

Originally Posted by Stifle

What makes him good was that he was professional in terms of doing what was needed. Did he only make 1 All Star roster with Atlanta, yes. He didn’t last 15 years going to teams that said we can plug in a cheap salary player with little experience and hope he can suffice the same as what Detroit is doing today. Detroit in 12 needed a solid experienced player and picked Infante. Omar in 14 knew his value and KC kindly paid to have that experienced piece to their team where they just ended up short in a 7 game series.

If you are lumping in a experienced Infante to the likes of Keith then I will kindly dismiss any replies because Infante was to the truest sense a guy who didn’t have much pop but knew how to increase the teams odds of winning with running the bases extremely well, sacrificing at the plate, playing the field to a higher standard and hitting when it mattered. Multiple teams fighting for pennants didn’t go out seeking Infante because he was a C. Keith like player !

That is literally how he lasted that long, how are you this stupid.

[bub838]

Originally Posted by Stifle

Bubs & JV, who is that everyday player who in a short series is going to produce when the leverage is at it’s highest ? Correct, nobody, we had the list that I gave you and that is why a Infante was valuable because he wasn’t counted on to carry that weight. Leyland had slow moving base runners who were counted on as clutch hitters, Mags, Miggy, Prince, VMart and even Delmon Young. We were the slowest biggest team but kept picking up those pieces on offense to contend. Wish Detroit would have had a stud reliever in 11-13. The team we have now can’t afford to have a player in a short series to be a guy who only walks. This team doesn’t have a experienced “IT” guy, yet, like the names shown though Prince was a dud his whole career when the stakes were raised, playoffs.

A player is valuable as long as they don't have to be counted on, got it.