Patrick Mahomes Prices

[pejc300]

I just want to acknowledge Sleeper as an all-timer for having the stones to bet Delta on a 1 year hiatus. He did all of us an incredible solid by ridding of us that guy (I blocked him a long time ago but you jabronis kept quoting him)

No matter what happens, I think Sleeper is a first ballot HOF blowout member.

[pejc300]

This is a serious question. Probably stupid, but curious on everyone's thoughts on legacy if Mahomes loses this SB and is now 3-2 in SB vs. not even making it and being 3-1. Any chance it would somehow how hurt him to have 2 SB loss when Montana is 4-0?

I personally would rather have him go to the SB and lose then lose in the AFCCG, but wanted to get your thoughts.

[KardsC1]

Originally Posted by pejc300

This is a serious question. Probably stupid, but curious on everyone's thoughts on legacy if Mahomes loses this SB and is now 3-2 in SB vs. not even making it and being 3-1. Any chance it would somehow how hurt him to have 2 SB loss when Montana is 4-0?

I personally would rather have him go to the SB and lose then lose in the AFCCG, but wanted to get your thoughts.

I’d always take 5 Lamar Hunt trophies over 4.

[chompie99]

Originally Posted by pejc300

This is a serious question. Probably stupid, but curious on everyone's thoughts on legacy if Mahomes loses this SB and is now 3-2 in SB vs. not even making it and being 3-1. Any chance it would somehow how hurt him to have 2 SB loss when Montana is 4-0?

I personally would rather have him go to the SB and lose then lose in the AFCCG, but wanted to get your thoughts.

Chiefs have now gone further than any team trying to three-peat in the Super Bowl era. They’ve made the Super Bowl five of last six years which I think is unprecedented. If Chiefs lose it would hurt some but not much. If they somehow made it again in the next two years it would be hard to deny what it means.

[Asian62150]

Originally Posted by pejc300

This is a serious question. Probably stupid, but curious on everyone's thoughts on legacy if Mahomes loses this SB and is now 3-2 in SB vs. not even making it and being 3-1. Any chance it would somehow how hurt him to have 2 SB loss when Montana is 4-0?

I personally would rather have him go to the SB and lose then lose in the AFCCG, but wanted to get your thoughts.

I think it's clearly better to get to the SB and lose rather than not get there. But I dunno...ppl seem to knock LeBron for losing in the NBA Finals. I think it's a dumb argument because we'd be saying it's better to lose in the conference finals (or earlier) to keep your Finals/SB record unblemished.

[jacksonjj]

Originally Posted by Asian62150

I think it's clearly better to get to the SB and lose rather than not get there. But I dunno...ppl seem to knock LeBron for losing in the NBA Finals. I think it's a dumb argument because we'd be saying it's better to lose in the conference finals (or earlier) to keep your Finals/SB record unblemished.

ppl you mean haters.

Going to only 4 finals and being 4-0 isn't even in the same stratosphere accomplishment wise as being to 10 finals and winning 4.

If Mahomes makes it to 10 Super Bowls in his career I'm going to need a LOT of xanax.

[bills4life]

Not going to come here and vent today, because I did that after 13 seconds, and after last year, and at this point it's just expected.

One year we are talking about being let down by inexplicable coaching (13 seconds), then last year we talk about injuries, Tyler Bass, etc... and this year... well, you all know the narratives from this game (refs, injuries, Kincaid, etc).

But if it's not one thing, it will always be another. In other words, next time we play KC in the playoffs and lose, it won't be the refs, but it will be something else instead, and the bottom line is always the same... because one team is better at finishing than the other. One team plays better complimentary football than the other.

But also, one team has a history of getting more "lucky breaks" than the other, yes, it's true. I'm not trying to take away from the undeniable greatness of your team, but for god's sake, any time you win 18 one-score games in a row or whatever it is, that doesn't happen without getting lucky SOMETIMES!!

So, I like to keep it simple instead:

The Chiefs are blessed.
And the Bills are cursed, very cursed.

I like my stats, so I'll leave you with a few:

- Josh Allen is 7-1 against all non-Chiefs teams in the playoffs and 0-4 against the Chiefs

- Josh Allen has the most playoff wins without a SB appearance (and he will likely have a HUGE LEAD on this stat by the time his career is over)

- The Buffalo Bills, the ONLY TEAM to appear in 4 straight Super Bowls (and lose them all) is now ALSO the only team to be eliminated by the SAME TEAM 4 times in a 5 year span.



Point is, this stuff with the Bills, you just can't make it up.

Just like you can't make up the Chiefs appearing in 7 straight AFCCG's, 3 straight super bowls, etc.

We are polar opposites.

[Onepocketj]

Originally Posted by bills4life

Not going to come here and vent today, because I did that after 13 seconds, and after last year, and at this point it's just expected.

One year we are talking about being let down by inexplicable coaching (13 seconds), then last year we talk about injuries, Tyler Bass, etc... and this year... well, you all know the narratives from this game (refs, injuries, Kincaid, etc).

But if it's not one thing, it will always be another. In other words, next time we play KC in the playoffs and lose, it won't be the refs, but it will be something else instead, and the bottom line is always the same... because one team is better at finishing than the other. One team plays better complimentary football than the other.

But also, one team has a history of getting more "lucky breaks" than the other, yes, it's true. I'm not trying to take away from the undeniable greatness of your team, but for god's sake, any time you win 18 one-score games in a row or whatever it is, that doesn't happen without getting lucky SOMETIMES!!

So, I like to keep it simple instead:

The Chiefs are blessed.
And the Bills are cursed, very cursed.

I like my stats, so I'll leave you with a few:

- Josh Allen is 7-1 against all non-Chiefs teams in the playoffs and 0-4 against the Chiefs

- Josh Allen has the most playoff wins without a SB appearance (and he will likely have a HUGE LEAD on this stat by the time his career is over)

- The Buffalo Bills, the ONLY TEAM to appear in 4 straight Super Bowls (and lose them all) is now ALSO the only team to be eliminated by the SAME TEAM 4 times in a 5 year span.



Point is, this stuff with the Bills, you just can't make it up.

Just like you can't make up the Chiefs appearing in 7 straight AFCCG's, 3 straight super bowls, etc.

We are polar opposites.

I think a big factor in yesterday's game was that there were five fumbles and the Bills recovered them all. That should honestly swing the game in that team's favor but the Chiefs still found a way to win. I like Josh and I'd love to see him win - just seems like yesterday wasn't the day. I wasn't a big fan of the play calling for the Bills yesterday either. It got to be pretty predictable.

[jacksonjj]

Originally Posted by Onepocketj

I think a big factor in yesterday's game was that there were five fumbles and the Bills recovered them all. That should honestly swing the game in that team's favor but the Chiefs still found a way to win. I like Josh and I'd love to see him win - just seems like yesterday wasn't the day. I wasn't a big fan of the play calling for the Bills yesterday either. It got to be pretty predictable.

And 2 dropped easy INTs the first 2 plays of the game.

So that's 6 turnovers that all went the Bills' way. The Chiefs don't get all the luck all the time. The score could've been worse than the final.

[TSonn]

Originally Posted by bills4life

One year we are talking about being let down by inexplicable coaching (13 seconds), then last year we talk about injuries, Tyler Bass, etc... and this year... well, you all know the narratives from this game (refs, injuries, Kincaid, etc).

But if it's not one thing, it will always be another. In other words, next time we play KC in the playoffs and lose, it won't be the refs, but it will be something else instead, and the bottom line is always the same... because one team is better at finishing than the other. One team plays better complimentary football than the other.

I think this is true but also KC seems to always have better situational awareness.

Case in point last night: the play before the 4th and 1 review. I'm not certain Kincaid didn't get the 1st on his 3rd down catch. But McDermott was too focused on getting the team to the line quickly for whatever advantage he thought he had with the tush push (he also misread the advantage there all night) that he didn't even consider challenging the spot on the 3rd down call.

On the flip side, when KC went on 4th and 1 early in the game, they took their time, took a timeout, then came out of the timeout fast to the line all aligned, with every angle considered during the timeout.

But all this being said, when BUF got the ball back down 3 with 3+ minutes left I 100% thought they'd pound Cook and Allen all the way down the field to at least kick a FG with no time left.

Appreciate the recap from a level-headed Bills fan. As a Vikings fan, I get it.

[pejc300]

Originally Posted by pejc300

Well gentlemen, feels like deja vu. I will say the subplot of Sleeper vs. Delta leaving the boards adds some juiciness to this game.

Gun to my head prediction:

Allen wants to win this game more than anything he's ever wanted in his life. He does not want to lose to Mahomes in the playoffs AGAIN, especially with the Super Bowl on the line. He will be Superman. He has not been turning the ball over at all. He feels good about how he played the Chiefs earlier in the year. He's being disciplined and playing with maturity. He's keeping a chip on his shoulder, proudly saying "No one thought we would be here. No one said we were good enough all year long!" (even though everyone said they are good enough and most predicted them to win the SB). His biggest flaw is that he's celebrating the win over the Ravens like they won the Super Bowl.

Mahomes is a machine. He is in his "screw it" era. He hears the noise this week - MaFlop; cheater; rigged and he does not give an F. No more Mr. Nice Guy. He respects Josh, but in the way an older brother recognizes the game of his younger brother but still dunks on him. He will have one bad INT; maybe a fluke tip or something, but otherwise will be rock solid.

There will be a crucial, crucial 4th and inches for the Chiefs late in the game, and they will do the right thing and do a QB sneak for the first time in 6 years. Butker will hit a game winner. And the haters will hate.

Chiefs: 31
Bills: 28

I was about 67% right

[SleepyWill]

Taking a step back, I would have to say that one of the biggest factors had been the failed two-point conversions.

At that point it was clear to everyone what the Bills had planned to do. . . Why not mix it up a bit? Or, Have Knox & Kincaid line up behind Allen and run the Tush Push? I don't personally understand the logic of taking the snap, taking a step back and then attempt to move forward over the L guard.

Horrible play selection and frankly coaching during certain key periods of that game. Kincaids almost first down, why not ask for a measurement? Or, challenge the ruling?

[JWBlue]

Originally Posted by pejc300

All good! I just wasn't sure if you realized this was a 70k card when you said "not his most expensive card." Thanks for your transparency.



Yep.

WHOA. I wasn't close. I was thinking $10K.

Nice pickup Sleeper.

[SleeperCards]

Originally Posted by JWBlue

WHOA. I wasn't close. I was thinking $10K.

Nice pickup Sleeper.

I ain't going on a 8 hour trip for $10k, you severely underestimate my laziness

[KardsC1]

To Mr Delta guy:

Josh Allen had the ball with 3 full minutes with 3 time outs and a 2 min warning. How the heck didn’t Allen/bills get a score..if it was Mahomes or Brady, it’s a guarantee score. That drive had nothing to do with refs..it was the Allen legacy drive but he fell short and resorted to a Hail Mary throw..no matter how you slice it, that was Allens best chance to slay the dragon. 4-0 in the playoffs is not surmountable…that essentially locked up the narrative that Allen will never be on mahomes level .. buff can beat the chiefs in the regular season and the media/fans will say “here we go again only to lose in Jan”..

[TheCrow]

Originally Posted by Bosoxfan5990

The Bills just need to tip their caps and call Mahomes their daddy.

Agreed.

[bills4life]

Originally Posted by KardsC1

To Mr Delta guy:

Josh Allen had the ball with 3 full minutes with 3 time outs and a 2 min warning. How the heck didn’t Allen/bills get a score..if it was Mahomes or Brady, it’s a guarantee score. That drive had nothing to do with refs..it was the Allen legacy drive but he fell short and resorted to a Hail Mary throw..no matter how you slice it, that was Allens best chance to slay the dragon. 4-0 in the playoffs is not surmountable…that essentially locked up the narrative that Allen will never be on mahomes level .. buff can beat the chiefs in the regular season and the media/fans will say “here we go again only to lose in Jan”..

Alright now, ok... most of what I have been reading so far is fair, and there is plenty of blame to go around, including Josh Allen at times in the game, but this is where I gotta draw the line.

It took an unbelievable effort to even get that pass off, let alone throw it as far as he did, and it landed in the hands of a wide open Dalton Kincaid, who dropped the pass.

The other receiving options had 3 defenders ready to tackle them before reaching the line to gain:



If we aren't blaming Lamar Jackson for Mark andrews dropping a 2 point conversion against the Bills, then don't blame Allen for his receiver dropping an unbelievable pass on the final play. I can't believe he got rid of that ball to begin with. If Kincaid catches that ball, it goes down as one of the Top 10... maybe Top 5 most ridiculous plays in Allen's career.

The difference is you don't see KC receivers dropping ANYTHING in these huge games, even the tough catches. Look at Worthy. And contested catches aren't even his thing!

Due to the superior organization and coaching staff, they are ALWAYS able to to get the ENTIRE TEAM dialed in for these games and it is unrivaled. You just rarely see mistakes by anyone, well, when the game is on the line at least.

Also, that play was all Spags. KC had apparently shown that corner blitz look multiple times during the game, but had backed off each time when the ball was snapped, until that moment. In that moment, with the game on the line, he finally committed to the blitz, and it got home. In the meantime, 2 bills OL completely whiffed their blocks. I mean, you wanna talk about a turnstile? Check the replay from the angle I have posted below. Again, it's incredible that Allen was even able to make a throw, and I am not sure how many other QBs would have been able to salvage this situation and almost make one of the most ridiculous plays you'll ever see, so if you wanna blame Allen, sure, he was bad at times last night, but don't put that one on him.

I also place blame on Joe Brady for not running the ball one time on that final drive when there was so much time left on the clock and James Cook was easily our most effective player on offense on the day. That's where I put the blame. Basically, we were outcoached by KC, yet again.

Couldn't figure out how to embed a tweet, but here it is: https://x.com/benbbaldwin/status/1883927425400332461

[Siberian13]

I thought the first play of the last drive was a rushing play for -1?

[bills4life]

Originally Posted by Siberian13

I thought the first play of the last drive was a rushing play for -1?

Yeah, you are right, my bad. What I meant to say is not using James Cook once on that drive, our RB1. That first run for -1 was with Ty Johnson, our RB3 and third down back, on first down(??).

James had been "cooking" in the 2nd half on those tackle eligible plays where Alec Anderson checked in as an additional OL. At least, once he stopped getting flagged for neglecting to report himself eligible like he did twice in the first half.

[thesportslab]

Originally Posted by SleeperCards

Well, I guess I get to post the card for you guys since Patty pulled it off and sent Delta home.

…

https://i.imgur.com/w5uBilul.jpg

Incredible addition! I had not seen the red prizm yet, so the SSP make sense. A monster for sure.

[imbluestreak23]

What a game to witness live. Wish I could share more thoughts but a few things:
- to clear up the misinformation in the media, I couldn’t watch the broadcast so I don’t know if it was stated but judging by the commentary it obviously wasn’t, JAMES COOK WAS HURT. He came out in the second half after a big play and was on the sideline bent over. He did come back in I think but it was clear and obvious why he was pulled
- I hope the stat bois stay away from Patty. Go watch baseball, go watch basketball, go watch something a little easier to digest where you can look at one or two stats on the stat sheet to differentiate who you think is a good QB vs not.
- I’m convinced that the more middle you get in America the nicer the people you will find. Maybe subtract Colorado which I wouldn’t include. Kansas and Missouri peeps are the best. What a joy to watch this game with them

[pejc300]

Originally Posted by bills4life

Alright now, ok... most of what I have been reading so far is fair, and there is plenty of blame to go around, including Josh Allen at times in the game, but this is where I gotta draw the line.

It took an unbelievable effort to even get that pass off, let alone throw it as far as he did, and it landed in the hands of a wide open Dalton Kincaid, who dropped the pass.

The other receiving options had 3 defenders ready to tackle them before reaching the line to gain:



If we aren't blaming Lamar Jackson for Mark andrews dropping a 2 point conversion against the Bills, then don't blame Allen for his receiver dropping an unbelievable pass on the final play. I can't believe he got rid of that ball to begin with. If Kincaid catches that ball, it goes down as one of the Top 10... maybe Top 5 most ridiculous plays in Allen's career.

The difference is you don't see KC receivers dropping ANYTHING in these huge games, even the tough catches. Look at Worthy. And contested catches aren't even his thing!

Due to the superior organization and coaching staff, they are ALWAYS able to to get the ENTIRE TEAM dialed in for these games and it is unrivaled. You just rarely see mistakes by anyone, well, when the game is on the line at least.

Also, that play was all Spags. KC had apparently shown that corner blitz look multiple times during the game, but had backed off each time when the ball was snapped, until that moment. In that moment, with the game on the line, he finally committed to the blitz, and it got home. In the meantime, 2 bills OL completely whiffed their blocks. I mean, you wanna talk about a turnstile? Check the replay from the angle I have posted below. Again, it's incredible that Allen was even able to make a throw, and I am not sure how many other QBs would have been able to salvage this situation and almost make one of the most ridiculous plays you'll ever see, so if you wanna blame Allen, sure, he was bad at times last night, but don't put that one on him.

I also place blame on Joe Brady for not running the ball one time on that final drive when there was so much time left on the clock and James Cook was easily our most effective player on offense on the day. That's where I put the blame. Basically, we were outcoached by KC, yet again.

Couldn't figure out how to embed a tweet, but here it is: https://x.com/benbbaldwin/status/1883927425400332461

I don't disagree with any of this. I have watched that play about 30 times now and I can't believe how quickly the line disintegrated. I mean Allen could have rolled out as expected, but Karlaftis got through so fast there was absolutely nothing there. And yeah, the play to the flat would have been destroyed. Allen did absolutely everything he could on that play.

And you are so right about the Chiefs in general. The way they get EVERYONE dialed in is incredible. There are absolutely no divas on this team. They won't allow it. They are playing for each other, and for history, and it's glorious. Mahomes just diagnoses everything pre snap beautifully. He pretty much does not take any risks anymore, which makes it not as exciting (did he take any deep shots at all besides the one to Hollywood Brown on that 3 and 15 toward the sideline?), but it is so effective.

And I'll go on the record and say the Chiefs are not here without Kareem Hunt. Pacheco just hasn't had it this year (understandable, he broke his leg). Kareem has come through time and time again on crucial yards when needed.

And Kelce...don't even get me started...did you all see how well he blocked yesterday? He was incredible. So selfless.

[bills4life]

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

What a game to witness live. Wish I could share more thoughts but a few things:
- to clear up the misinformation in the media, I couldn’t watch the broadcast so I don’t know if it was stated but judging by the commentary it obviously wasn’t, JAMES COOK WAS HURT. He came out in the second half after a big play and was on the sideline bent over. He did come back in I think but it was clear and obvious why he was pulled
- I hope the stat bois stay away from Patty. Go watch baseball, go watch basketball, go watch something a little easier to digest where you can look at one or two stats on the stat sheet to differentiate who you think is a good QB vs not.
- I’m convinced that the more middle you get in America the nicer the people you will find. Maybe subtract Colorado which I wouldn’t include. Kansas and Missouri peeps are the best. What a joy to watch this game with them

If that was indeed the case, it's a bit easier for me to accept the Bills final sequence of offense and the personnel they went with. I'm just surprised on TwoBillsDrive, the most active Bills message board online, not one person mentioned or speculated his injury. Weird.

It would certainly explain what our third down back was doing on the field taking a carry on 1st down in the most important drive of the game though.

Man, we went into the Ravens game a couple weeks ago about as healthy as you guys, but after Baltimore & KC we have just been decimated with injuries due to 2 very physical teams.

The Bills offense has been designed around getting YAC all season long. Shakir, in particular, is extremely elusive and very difficult to tackle after the catch, but he had absolutely nowhere to go against the Ravens and Chiefs. Some how, some way, we need a defense like that for Allen in the next 2-3 years (while he is in his prime) if we are ever going to have a legitimate shot.

If you were to rank all 7 defenses in the playoffs from the AFC, the Buffalo Bills are #7, hands down. We definitely overachieved this season.

[KardsC1]

Originally Posted by bills4life

If that was indeed the case, it's a bit easier for me to accept the Bills final sequence of offense and the personnel they went with. I'm just surprised on TwoBillsDrive, the most active Bills message board online, not one person mentioned or speculated his injury. Weird.

It would certainly explain what our third down back was doing on the field taking a carry on 1st down in the most important drive of the game though.

Man, we went into the Ravens game a couple weeks ago about as healthy as you guys, but after Baltimore & KC we have just been decimated with injuries due to 2 very physical teams.

The Bills offense has been designed around getting YAC all season long. Shakir, in particular, is extremely elusive and very difficult to tackle after the catch, but he had absolutely nowhere to go against the Ravens and Chiefs. Some how, some way, we need a defense like that for Allen in the next 2-3 years (while he is in his prime) if we are ever going to have a legitimate shot.

If you were to rank all 7 defenses in the playoffs from the AFC, the Buffalo Bills are #7, hands down. We definitely overachieved this season.

3:33 time on clock.. 3 time outs , 2 min warning .. No excuses …I love it how before the game..bills fans say bills is the better team, bills will win…then after the game , it’s: “bills overachieved.

[bills4life]

Originally Posted by KardsC1

3:33 time on clock.. 3 time outs , 2 min warning .. No excuses …I love it how before the game..bills fans say bills is the better team, bills will win…then after the game , it’s: “bills overachieved.

Yeah, well, don’t speak for me there. I placed a bet on KC to win the Super Bowl halfway through the season and had a gut feeling we would lose this game.

How can you say the Bills didn’t overachieve this season? 1/3 of their salary cap was dead money. Something like 5 of their 7 captains from last year were off the team this year. We had 2 pro bowlers. Did any other playoff team have less? I wish they made the Super Bowl, and they had a shot, but they also got further than ANYONE realistically expected them to this season, no question about it.