Random unbelievable baseball facts, trivia, and/or oddities

[stevebay]

Vinny Castilla's stats in 1996 and 1997 were identical...talk about consistency.

40 HR
113 RBI
.304 Batting Average

[Skipscards]

In the live ball era, the most 20 game winners in a single season is 15. it happened twice, 49 years apart, in 1920 and 1969.

[hatchd]

Dante Bichette had 1906 career hits, 401 doubles, 274 HRs, 1141 RBI and an OPS of 835.

His career WAR is 5.6.


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[Stifle]

A Little League Home Run “LLHR” was first described in the 1911 World Series. This is where a batter scores a run with the addition of 2 errors. They occur roughly in 1.74 of every 1000 games played. There is a organization that ranks LLHR’s by in which they occur. Miguel Cabrera has one of the highest ranked LLHR’s in history vs Colorado in 2012. The ball is played by infielders throughout the entire play. It’s comical.

The oddity is that the phrase Little League in describing this play in 1911 occurred 28 years before the development of what we know is “Little League Baseball”.

[TBTC Baseball]

Originally Posted by hatchd

Dante Bichette had 1906 career hits, 401 doubles, 274 HRs, 1141 RBI and an OPS of 835.

His career WAR is 5.6.


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Bo exceeded that in just 2021. I remember reading Dante’s was low but didn’t realize it was that low.

[eye4talent]

Originally Posted by hatchd

Dante Bichette had 1906 career hits, 401 doubles, 274 HRs, 1141 RBI and an OPS of 835.

His career WAR is 5.6.


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I’m not a fan of WAR, so I’m not defending the calculation that produces that 5.6 number. But a majority of Dante’s production came in Colorado, pre-humidor. I wonder if there’s a ballpark adjustment that severely discounts his production.

His teammate, Vinny Castilla, had a three-year run in which he hit at least 40 HR and had a cumulative OPS above .900, and yet he averaged just 3.6 WAR during that stretch. As a third baseman, no less. There are 34 players this season with higher WAR—with a quarter of the season still remaining.


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[Stifle]

Originally Posted by eye4talent

I’m not a fan of WAR, so I’m not defending the calculation that produces that 5.6 number. But a majority of Dante’s production came in Colorado, pre-humidor. I wonder if there’s a ballpark adjustment that severely discounts his production.

His teammate, Vinny Castilla, had a three-year run in which he hit at least 40 HR and had a cumulative OPS above .900, and yet he averaged just 3.6 WAR during that stretch. As a third baseman, no less. There are 34 players this season with higher WAR—with a quarter of the season still remaining.


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Since WAR is a accumulation statistic, the numbers vs metrics do appear off. I’m not for WAR “all situations are equal” therefore clutch performances are equally accumulated with low leverage performances. Does seem iffy having 34 players with as much WAR with 60 games to go this season.

[eye4talent]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

This may be buried earlier in the thread:

A HOF pitcher struck out players A and B during his career. Player A’s rookie year was 1939, and player B’s final year was 2007.

Who are they?

Player A: Ted Williams
Player B: Julio Franco
Pitcher: Jim Kaat

I guessed the batters immediately but had to verify when Julio retired. The pitcher involved a little more assistance. I worked backwards in my head from Nolan Ryan to Tom Seaver, Steve Carlton, and then Gaylord Perry, thinking it must be Perry. But then I learned that he debuted in ‘62.

So, I googled longest MLB careers, and as soon as I saw Kaat’s name, I figured it had to be him.

I wonder if Jamie Moyer will be the middle link in a similar lineage? (It would still be in progress, of course.)


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[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by eye4talent

I’m not a fan of WAR, so I’m not defending the calculation that produces that 5.6 number. But a majority of Dante’s production came in Colorado, pre-humidor. I wonder if there’s a ballpark adjustment that severely discounts his production.

His teammate, Vinny Castilla, had a three-year run in which he hit at least 40 HR and had a cumulative OPS above .900, and yet he averaged just 3.6 WAR during that stretch. As a third baseman, no less. There are 34 players this season with higher WAR—with a quarter of the season still remaining.


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Yes. It does adjust for park. However, Dante’s low WAR is more a product of his being a butcher in the outfield. He had a killer arm, but he made a lot of errors for an outfielder.

[jlzinck]

Yesterday, Luis Urias of the Boston Red Sox hit a Grand Slam off the 1st pitch he saw from Gerrit Cole/
On Thursday on the last pitch he saw before facing Cole he hit a Grand Slam off a Washington pitcher.
Meaning he hit grand slams off consecutive pitches.

I can't see that happening more than 1 or 2 times in the history of the game, if at all before this

[rats60]

Originally Posted by eye4talent

Player A: Ted Williams
Player B: Julio Franco
Pitcher: Jim Kaat

I guessed the batters immediately but had to verify when Julio retired. The pitcher involved a little more assistance. I worked backwards in my head from Nolan Ryan to Tom Seaver, Steve Carlton, and then Gaylord Perry, thinking it must be Perry. But then I learned that he debuted in ‘62.

So, I googled longest MLB careers, and as soon as I saw Kaat’s name, I figured it had to be him.

I wonder if Jamie Moyer will be the middle link in a similar lineage? (It would still be in progress, of course.)


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Are you sure about this? When I saw debuted in 1939, I thought Ted Williams. I knew he retired in 1960 and Jim Kaat 's RC was 1960 Topps. I googled "Jim Kaat strikes out Ted Williams" and it appears that Jim Kaat never struck out Ted Williams.

[TBTC Baseball]

Originally Posted by rats60

Are you sure about this? When I saw debuted in 1939, I thought Ted Williams. I knew he retired in 1960 and Jim Kaat 's RC was 1960 Topps. I googled "Jim Kaat strikes out Ted Williams" and it appears that Jim Kaat never struck out Ted Williams.

Those were the players I had, but you are right. Checking Kaat’s game logs, Williams doesn’t show a K in any of these games. Mickey Vernon is only other 1939 rookie that overlapped with Kaat, but he was in NL.

[CardBoredom]

Originally Posted by rats60

Are you sure about this? When I saw debuted in 1939, I thought Ted Williams. I knew he retired in 1960 and Jim Kaat 's RC was 1960 Topps. I googled "Jim Kaat strikes out Ted Williams" and it appears that Jim Kaat never struck out Ted Williams.

Baseball Reference's "vs. batter" feature shows Williams going 2 for 3 lifetime against Kaat with no strikeouts. Williams had a single and a double against Kaat on September 27, 1959 and a fly out to left field April 22, 1960.

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by CardBoredom

Baseball Reference's "vs. batter" feature shows Williams going 2 for 3 lifetime against Kaat with no strikeouts. Williams had a single and a double against Kaat on September 27, 1959 and a fly out to left field April 22, 1960.

You guys are all correct. Maybe the initial question was that Kaat FACED them, and it got twisted to strikeouts over time

[eye4talent]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

You guys are all correct. Maybe the initial question was that Kaat FACED them, and it got twisted to strikeouts over time

I would say the result of any particular face-off is less relevant than the actual link. Kaat faced Williams and Julio Franco, creating a continuous lineage from 1939 to 2007. That’s good enough for me!


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[eye4talent]

I’m working on a Jamie Moyer link. It would be incomplete, because anyone completing the three-player lineage would still be playing. But if he faced rookie Bryce Harper in his final season, then we know there’s likely to be another decade on the tail end.

Dusty Baker and Davey Lopes appear to be the best hitting candidates to start the lineage, and Phil Niekro is an even better option as a pitcher. So far, the only direct link I can find is that Moyer and Lopes were teammates in ‘86.

But I don’t really know how to search historical matchups.


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[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by eye4talent

I’m working on a Jamie Moyer link. It would be incomplete, because anyone completing the three-player lineage would still be playing. But if he faced rookie Bryce Harper in his final season, then we know there’s likely to be another decade on the tail end.

Dusty Baker and Davey Lopes appear to be the best hitting candidates to start the lineage, and Phil Niekro is an even better option as a pitcher. So far, the only direct link I can find is that Moyer and Lopes were teammates in ‘86.

But I don’t really know how to search historical matchups.


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I was just doing the same thing!! I had hoped that Moyer pitched against Pete Rose (1963 rookie), but Rose was only playing part-time (and managing) at that time. Moyer did face Tony Perez that season tho

[eye4talent]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

I was just doing the same thing!! I had hoped that Moyer pitched against Pete Rose (1963 rookie), but Rose was only playing part-time (and managing) at that time. Moyer did face Tony Perez that season tho

Turns out that Lopes isn’t a great candidate. Yeah, he played until he was 42, but he didn’t debut until he was 27!


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[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by jlzinck

Yesterday, Luis Urias of the Boston Red Sox hit a Grand Slam off the 1st pitch he saw from Gerrit Cole/
On Thursday on the last pitch he saw before facing Cole he hit a Grand Slam off a Washington pitcher.
Meaning he hit grand slams off consecutive pitches.

I can't see that happening more than 1 or 2 times in the history of the game, if at all before this

Crazy! Reggie Jackson hit three homeruns on three straight pitches in a single World Series game.

[zworykin]

Originally Posted by jlzinck

Yesterday, Luis Urias of the Boston Red Sox hit a Grand Slam off the 1st pitch he saw from Gerrit Cole/
On Thursday on the last pitch he saw before facing Cole he hit a Grand Slam off a Washington pitcher.
Meaning he hit grand slams off consecutive pitches.

I can't see that happening more than 1 or 2 times in the history of the game, if at all before this

Jim Northrup did it once in back to back innings. (His next PA resulted, as you might expect, in a 4-pitch walk.)

Jim Gentile did it in back to back innings as well.

I have no idea how many more times it may have been done.

[aguinness]

Originally Posted by Stifle

Since WAR is a accumulation statistic, the numbers vs metrics do appear off. I’m not for WAR “all situations are equal” therefore clutch performances are equally accumulated with low leverage performances. Does seem iffy having 34 players with as much WAR with 60 games to go this season.

In a way, I think this is where WAR is actually a very interesting stat. I don't think anybody needs WAR to understand how amazing Babe Ruth was or Shohei Otani is this year. It's actually when WAR and the conventional stats don't match up that indicates a deeper dive into why they don't makes it interesting.
There's a number of players who were never considered a super star but racked up WAR because they did so many things well, even if not spectacularly. Lou Whitaker comes to mind, with his excellent defense and plate discipline as two things that show up in WAR but aren't as obvious as other stats.
As mentioned by others, Dante's defense played a role, and so did the era he played in, which was slanted towards offensive production.

[56Horsehide]

Originally Posted by jlzinck

Yesterday, Luis Urias of the Boston Red Sox hit a Grand Slam off the 1st pitch he saw from Gerrit Cole/
On Thursday on the last pitch he saw before facing Cole he hit a Grand Slam off a Washington pitcher.
Meaning he hit grand slams off consecutive pitches.

I can't see that happening more than 1 or 2 times in the history of the game, if at all before this

Fernando Tatis Sr hit two Grand Slams in the same game AND in the same inning.

[TBTC Baseball]

Originally Posted by eye4talent

Turns out that Lopes isn’t a great candidate. Yeah, he played until he was 42, but he didn’t debut until he was 27!


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My best line is 1965 to 2017. Not close to the 68 years as Williams>Kaat>Franco.

[zworykin]

Originally Posted by 56Horsehide

Fernando Tatis Sr hit two Grand Slams in the same game AND in the same inning.

But not on consecutive pitches seen.

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by aguinness

In a way, I think this is where WAR is actually a very interesting stat. I don't think anybody needs WAR to understand how amazing Babe Ruth was or Shohei Otani is this year. It's actually when WAR and the conventional stats don't match up that indicates a deeper dive into why they don't makes it interesting.
There's a number of players who were never considered a super star but racked up WAR because they did so many things well, even if not spectacularly. Lou Whitaker comes to mind, with his excellent defense and plate discipline as two things that show up in WAR but aren't as obvious as other stats.
As mentioned by others, Dante's defense played a role, and so did the era he played in, which was slanted towards offensive production.

Defense was more vital in the days when Dante played than today. With the no breaking up double plays and all the strikeouts, it’s either a home run or innings ends.

My take is that 68.9% of the teams that score first end up winning. When a player has the opportunity early in the game to be clutch and drive in the go ahead run, that team wins 69% of the time. That should be analyzed as vital but in WAR, all situations are equal even though there is a long history with data stating that it’s essential to score first. WAR doesn’t analyze that in creating its value.