Ke'Bryan Hayes

[PLAYED4NOTHING]

Originally Posted by BBases31

Comparing his defense to Chapman and Arenado is trolling and bashing? Showing by the numbers that his offense has been really, really good so far and supported by the xStats is trolling and bashing?

Did you even read the comment you're responding to?

No you weren’t bashing but what exactly have you been trying to contribute to the thread? Are you looking to buy into his BC autos for 125 or ? Does Juan Soto’s season so far justify 8500 for a PSA 10 ? I myself would much rather spend 220 on a card and take the tiny risk opposed to almost 10 grand for a base PSA 10. Have you already been in the Jasson thread (IDK I’ve never been in it) to explain his Analytics to card cost ratio to the others yet ?

[Silent George]

bashing is apparently saying the 24 year old rookie with almost no MLB experience is at a serious disadvantage for long-term investing.

Data is bashing. This was a weird thread.

4 6-8 WAR seasons in a row would certainly catch him up. of course Arenado's best season ever was 6 WAR exactly, so he has to be better than peak Arenado for the next 4 years.

Guy made a great play last night. He's legit. I wish him the best. It can be done. I'm rooting for him.

But data and history tells you it's long odds. Sorry for all of my venomous acid spewing.

[Junior2430]

Originally Posted by BBases31

bWAR is worthless. 2.1 of fWAR buoyed by a career .396(LOL) BABIP. He wasn't even a good hitter in the minors. He was a below average hitter in 500 PAs in AAA with a 94 wRC+. He was only slightly above average all the way from A to AA. Where is this magical league elite hitting ability that he's never had above rookie ball going to come from?

Steamer(the best projection system) has him at a 4.5 WAR full season pace. That's a really good player. That's also a really cheap player.



What a great reason to buy! Back up the truck dude!

Just one example- sorry I quoted the wrong posts. Troll away.

You did it in the acuna thread, no you do it here. If you think the guy is overrated. No need to be a wet blanket man.

[sportsfanatic]

Ok, so this kid might have a good glove but how does this justify his card values right now? He's basically the most valuable rookie in this year's class. His offensive numbers and potential don't justify his value right now IMO. probably the fact that all the other rookies this year are struggling has a lot to do with it i guess

[PLAYED4NOTHING]

Originally Posted by Silent George

bashing is apparently saying the 24 year old rookie with almost no MLB experience is at a serious disadvantage for long-term investing.

Data is bashing. This was a weird thread.

4 6-8 WAR seasons in a row would certainly catch him up. of course Arenado's best season ever was 6 WAR exactly, so he has to be better than peak Arenado for the next 4 years.

Guy made a great play last night. He's legit. I wish him the best. It can be done. I'm rooting for him.

But data and history tells you it's long odds. Sorry for all of my venomous acid spewing.

Okay, well I’m in my thirties and I go by the eye test. I don’t give WAR a second of my day. I actually the watch the games. All these data figures you guys try computing makes the thread weird. You said it yourself the kid can play.

[Junior2430]

Originally Posted by Silent George

bashing is apparently saying the 24 year old rookie with almost no MLB experience is at a serious disadvantage for long-term investing.

Data is bashing. This was a weird thread.

4 6-8 WAR seasons in a row would certainly catch him up. of course Arenado's best season ever was 6 WAR exactly, so he has to be better than peak Arenado for the next 4 years.

Guy made a great play last night. He's legit. I wish him the best. It can be done. I'm rooting for him.

But data and history tells you it's long odds. Sorry for all of my venomous acid spewing.

Odd response here. Who said anything about you bashing? Bbases has a history of being a troll. I respect different opinions of course- just not Bbases as I’ve seen it so much from him.

I just wish I knew all the players he invested in, so I could stay away. Dude is horrible at picking them. #justiceforsoto

[Hail2TheVictors]

Originally Posted by Junior2430

Odd response here. Who said anything about you bashing? Bbases has a history of being a troll. I respect different opinions of course- just not Bbases as I’ve seen it so much from him.

I just wish I knew all the players he invested in, so I could stay away. Dude is horrible at picking them. #justiceforsoto

The one that got me was saying Wander wouldn't get called up this year unless there was an injury. You have to be full on dummy to think/believe that.

And then a week later Wander is up.

[BBases31]

Originally Posted by Junior2430

I just wish I knew all the players he invested in, so I could stay away. Dude is horrible at picking them. #justiceforsoto

80% of my collection is in Ohtani bought in 2019/early 2020

[Junior2430]

Originally Posted by sportsfanatic

Ok, so this kid might have a good glove but how does this justify his card values right now? He's basically the most valuable rookie in this year's class. His offensive numbers and potential don't justify his value right now IMO. probably the fact that all the other rookies this year are struggling has a lot to do with it i guess

People in here saying he is a 2-3 war player. He had 2.1 WAR in 24 games and .8 WAR in 21 this year. Saying he is a 2-3 WAR player is trolling and that’s if WAR is everything to you…. (Hint: to me it’s not).

Because of his defense alone- he’ll be a 4-6 WAR player, maybe more if he even somewhat resembles the line drive approach he’s shown thus far.

And yes, I am using data as well.

[Silent George]

Originally Posted by Junior2430

Odd response here. Who said anything about you bashing? Bbases has a history of being a troll. I respect different opinions of course- just not Bbases as I’ve seen it so much from him.

I just wish I knew all the players he invested in, so I could stay away. Dude is horrible at picking them. #justiceforsoto

I saw where I believe I was critisized for my input the other day. I used bashing because I saw the word come up today (which made the thread pop up and became relevant again. If I'm mistaken, then I'm wrong, and I'm sorry.

[Junior2430]

Originally Posted by BBases31

80% of my collection is in Ohtani bought in 2019/early 2020

Lol! He’s 26!!! And likely won’t be able to keep up what he’s doing, gets hurt all the time (acknowledging it’s amazing to watch and I hope he doesn’t).. You beat up Hayes for being 24. This place can be unreal sometimes. You would get on a 24 year old rookie when your player was essentially the same age as a rookie.

Time to sell all of my ohtani, the oracle has shared his sage investment advice.

[Junior2430]

Originally Posted by Silent George

I saw where I believe I was critisized for my input the other day. I used bashing because I saw the word come up today (which made the thread pop up and became relevant again. If I'm mistaken, then I'm wrong, and I'm sorry.

All good. I’m speaking to Bbases, blowouts resident troll.

[BBases31]

Originally Posted by Silent George

I saw where I believe I was critisized for my input the other day. I used bashing because I saw the word come up today (which made the thread pop up and became relevant again. If I'm mistaken, then I'm wrong, and I'm sorry.

I see you're new here. Basically what happens in these player threads is you get a handful of people who are extremely emotionally invested in the player they collect and take wicked personal offense to any negative sentiment about that player. Nothing to do but laugh at the absurdity of it

Originally Posted by Junior2430

Lol! He’s 26!!! And likely won’t be able to keep up what he’s doing, gets hurt all the time (acknowledging it’s amazing to watch and I hope he doesn’t)

No worries bro!

You beat up Hayes for being 24. This place can be unreal sometimes. You would get on a 24 year old rookie when your player was essentially the same age as a rookie.

Just a bit of a difference between a 24 year old Ohtani and a 24 year old Hayes. I'd imagine you know why

Time to sell all of my ohtani, the oracle has shared his sage investment advice.

Got any high end 2018 Update parallels in there? I'm in the market for some more Blacks or Red Refractors

[Junior2430]

Originally Posted by BBases31

I see you're new here. Basically what happens in these player threads is you get a handful of people who are extremely emotionally invested in the player they collect and take wicked personal offense to any negative sentiment about that player. Nothing to do but laugh at the absurdity of it

As a pirate season ticket holder, we don’t get to have nice things. When we do, they get traded. So yes, emotionally invested is correct. We have a guy who *might* get NL ROY, the only thing we have a shot at this year of any meaning. And you are a wet blanket.

Do yourself a favor, stop and enjoy:

- acuna
- tatis
- soto
- ohtani
- hayes
- vlad
- Franco

Such a great time to be a fan in terms of talent. Instead you want to say how overrated player X is. I know you do it to get a rise out of members. But this is how I truly feel. I’ll stop feeding you now.

[PLAYED4NOTHING]

Originally Posted by sportsfanatic

Ok, so this kid might have a good glove but how does this justify his card values right now? He's basically the most valuable rookie in this year's class. His offensive numbers and potential don't justify his value right now IMO. probably the fact that all the other rookies this year are struggling has a lot to do with it i guess

I’m puzzled by the thread having to justify his card prices. Is this a prerequisite for being able to participate in your favorite players thread ? If so I’m thinking there’s probably 300 players alone that would fall into this category as well. Seems awfully confusing Lol

[Junior2430]

Originally Posted by PLAYED4NOTHING

I’m puzzled by the thread having to justify his card prices. Is this a prerequisite for being able to participate in your favorite players thread ? If so I’m thinking there’s probably 300 players alone that would fall into this category as well. Seems awfully confusing Lol

You are spot on

[Silent George]

Originally Posted by Junior2430

People in here saying he is a 2-3 war player. He had 2.1 WAR in 24 games and .8 WAR in 21 this year. Saying he is a 2-3 WAR player is trolling and that’s if WAR is everything to you…. (Hint: to me it’s not).

Because of his defense alone- he’ll be a 4-6 WAR player, maybe more if he even somewhat resembles the line drive approach he’s shown thus far.

And yes, I am using data as well.

He's been incredible in WAR for how small his sample size is, for sure. 2.5fWAR in 44 games is amazing. Works out to a 10 WAR season. But the point for that is that it's a small sample size. Mike Trout has had 2 10 WAR seasons in his career, and that's historic. There are 54 batting seasons ever where someone got 10WAR and Babe has 6 of them. So it's not unheard of, but unless the claims are that we have a 3B version of Mike Trout here, there is some major mean regression that has to happen. Especially when health is considered into the cumulative stat, and his hasn't been good. 2-3 WAR is going to be pretty fair for this season.

But no, I don't mean to call you out like this - he looks like he has a great glove - and he will absolutely not be a 4-6 WAR player on defense alone. This isn't using data, it's inventing it. 14% of WAR is allotted to defense. Ozzie Smith, in his very best defensive season, earned 4 WAR from defense, and .8 of that was positional adjustment - and 3B has a MUCH smaller adjustment. I'd consider it FAR more likely he's a 10 WAR player than he is a4-6 WAR defensive player. Brooks Robinson, the gold standard for 3B, peaked with 3.6 defensive WAR in his best season.

The thing about using data - is if you're going to have a civilized discussion about something - and I hope this remains this way - where people are open-minded and willing to accept their mind might be changed, then data has to be used. Otherwise everything is an eyeball test. There's no disputing. There's no facts to back anything up. it's just "looks good to me" vs "doesn't look good to me"

WAR, as a metric, kind of sucks. But it's the best we have. I liken it to the Churchill quote "democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others"

That's WAR to me. It's deeply flawed, but it absolutely crushes traditional stats like batting average.

[tblood]

Originally Posted by Junior2430

As a pirate season ticket holder, we don’t get to have nice things. When we do, they get traded. So yes, emotionally invested is correct. We have a guy who *might* get NL ROY, the only thing we have a shot at this year of any meaning. And you are a wet blanket.

Do yourself a favor, stop and enjoy:

- acuna
- tatis
- soto
- ohtani
- hayes
- vlad
- Franco

Such a great time to be a fan in terms of talent. Instead you want to say how overrated player X is. I know you do it to get a rise out of members. But this is how I truly feel. I’ll stop feeding you now.

Poor Yordan


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Silent George]

Originally Posted by PLAYED4NOTHING

Okay, well I’m in my thirties and I go by the eye test. I don’t give WAR a second of my day. I actually the watch the games. All these data figures you guys try computing makes the thread weird. You said it yourself the kid can play.

I'm older than you. I give WAR many seconds of my day, because I have a lot of those to waste before I get to watch the games. Data gives context to our emotions.

The kid can play. He's superb defensively. I LOVE players that are fun to watch on defense. I'm terrified he's an injury away from sinking himself.

My statements on him are STRICTLY looking at a long term investment, AKA, what are his chances to have a hall of fame type career? (Because almost all player investments require that standard) When a player doesn't have his first full season until he's 25, very slim.

[Junior2430]

Originally Posted by Silent George

He's been incredible in WAR for how small his sample size is, for sure. 2.5fWAR in 44 games is amazing. Works out to a 10 WAR season. But the point for that is that it's a small sample size. Mike Trout has had 2 10 WAR seasons in his career, and that's historic. There are 54 batting seasons ever where someone got 10WAR and Babe has 6 of them. So it's not unheard of, but unless the claims are that we have a 3B version of Mike Trout here, there is some major mean regression that has to happen. Especially when health is considered into the cumulative stat, and his hasn't been good. 2-3 WAR is going to be pretty fair for this season.

But no, I don't mean to call you out like this - he looks like he has a great glove - and he will absolutely not be a 4-6 WAR player on defense alone. This isn't using data, it's inventing it. 14% of WAR is allotted to defense. Ozzie Smith, in his very best defensive season, earned 4 WAR from defense, and .8 of that was positional adjustment - and 3B has a MUCH smaller adjustment. I'd consider it FAR more likely he's a 10 WAR player than he is a4-6 WAR defensive player. Brooks Robinson, the gold standard for 3B, peaked with 3.6 defensive WAR in his best season.

The thing about using data - is if you're going to have a civilized discussion about something - and I hope this remains this way - where people are open-minded and willing to accept their mind might be changed, then data has to be used. Otherwise everything is an eyeball test. There's no disputing. There's no facts to back anything up. it's just "looks good to me" vs "doesn't look good to me"

WAR, as a metric, kind of sucks. But it's the best we have. I liken it to the Churchill quote "democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others"

That's WAR to me. It's deeply flawed, but it absolutely crushes traditional stats like batting average.

To be clear- I wasn’t stating 4-6 WAR on defense alone!! My intention was to state that because of his defense it will drive him to a 4-6 WAR alone if he even hits remotely like he has through his career so far in MLB. I understand he won’t get 4-6 just on defense.


Total WAR of 4-6 each of next 3 years, I would bet big $$$ that happens if he even plays 150 games per season. That’s the point I was making. Let alone 2-3 WAR

[Junior2430]

Originally Posted by tblood

Poor Yordan


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You further prove my point, haha

[Silent George]

Originally Posted by Junior2430

To be clear- I wasn’t stating 4-6 WAR on defense alone!! My intention was to state that because of his defense it will drive him to a 4-6 WAR alone if he even hits remotely like he has through his career so far in MLB. I understand he won’t get 4-6 just on defense.


Total WAR of 4-6 each of next 3 years, I would bet big $$$ that happens if he even plays 150 games per season. That’s the point I was making. Let alone 2-3 WAR

Got it. I took you too literally.

He can certainly do that. He needs to do that to get himself on the hall track. But that’s putting a kid on a near annual MVP track for 3 straight seasons and I’ll take the under on it. But if he does his investors will look very smart.

[Junior2430]

Originally Posted by Silent George

Got it. I took you too literally.

He can certainly do that. He needs to do that to get himself on the hall track. But that’s putting a kid on a near annual MVP track for 3 straight seasons and I’ll take the under on it. But if he does his investors will look very smart.

To be fair I typed it too ambiguous so I don’t blame you, haha

[JWBlue]

People are paying for his potential. Not his current statistics. He will be a star player with a squeaky clean image.

Hs minor league advanced statistics are stellar.

[paloose]

Originally Posted by sportsfanatic

Ok, so this kid might have a good glove but how does this justify his card values right now? He's basically the most valuable rookie in this year's class. His offensive numbers and potential don't justify his value right now IMO. probably the fact that all the other rookies this year are struggling has a lot to do with it i guess

Jake Chronenworth is not strugling , he is killing it. Roy here we come.