Keeper Champions- Official Fantasy Thread

[jstasyk1121]

Originally Posted by Viking6

Battle at the top this week with me and JSTA. Rough day for me with my ace this year in Gausman getting outscored 27-0 by Buehler. Marquez threw a gem on top of it. My offense is currently about as hot as it can be, but we shall see if I can hold up pitching wise. My lower tier pitchers have not performed lately.

yea big match!! i had a great day yesterday with like 131 pts...couple solid hitters and had 4 starts that were all Ok to Awesome range....and Morton was going for a much better score but fell apart in the 7th...settled for 17 still though

gonna be a good match it seems though---good luck

[Hollywood42]

Alright who's out of the running with some pitching to move? I need it!

[Viking6]

Originally Posted by Hollywood42

Alright who's out of the running with some pitching to move? I need it!

I need some pitching too! (I think everybody probably could)

I am now 6 starts in this week for a combined -8 points. I have 4 starters going today.... The Goal is 9 points combined. Lets make it happen!

I am going to need a monster day today or my hold on the number 1 spot will be down to points.

[7jacfire]

Despite my decent record, it appears I have had a lot of luck wins this year as I am not even in the top half of the league for points scored. I am not sure if I want to either trade keepers to aim for a shot at the playoffs, or if I want to trade my top guys for better keepers, so I will leave that up to the league and see which options gives me the best trade offers .

My keeper options (bolded are the guys I'd keep if the season ended today):
Tyler Mahle (12)
Max Fried (14)
Ryan McMahon (15)
Mike Clevinger (17) - hardest to get
Taijuan Walker (18)
Josh Hader (21)
Jeff McNeil (21)
Zach Plesac (24)

My best non-keeper options, some may be solid keepers as well:
Clayton Kershaw (can't be kept)
Zack Greinke (1)
Alex Bregman (1)
Paul Goldschmidt (3)
Frankie Montas (6)
Javier Baez (10)
Salvador Perez (11)
Adam Wainwright (15)

For my keepers, I'd either be looking to package a few for a better keeper option or trade them for some guys who can help this year. For my non-keeper options I'd only be looking for keepers, and again I would prefer someone better than at least 1 of the 5 I'd keep if the season ended today. Can also mix and match between the keeper and non-keeper side.

[seanbros55]

Why even send that offer? I’m so confused.

[Ray27Ray52]

Originally Posted by seanbros55

Why even send that offer? I’m so confused.

[seanbros55]

Originally Posted by Ray27Ray52

Lol Ray. You’ve had some doozies, but you’re the coolest guy!




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[seanbros55]

Originally Posted by seanbros55

Lol Ray. You’ve had some doozies, but you’re the coolest guy!




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Side bar…my birthday is the 4th of July. There’s been a few years where my brother in law and I get HAMMERED on my 7.4 birthday and he always plays the “I am a real American” hogan song and I always require a Dusty “American Dream” follow up

[Ray27Ray52]

Originally Posted by seanbros55

Side bar…my birthday is the 4th of July. There’s been a few years where my brother in law and I get HAMMERED on my 7.4 birthday and he always plays the “I am a real American” hogan song and I always require a Dusty “American Dream” follow up

Dusty was the best. He looked and wrestled like a plumber but he had that charisma and those mic skills you just can't teach. He knew what he was and he knew that people would like him for it. Happy belated Birthday! Now trade me a pitcher or 3 please.

[Hollywood42]

Not liking the way my team is trending. I've had an undeniably great year at 10-3 and 3rd place in total points scored, but the 2nd half is gonna be tough with Acuna out for the year, Bauer being a dumbass, plus injuries to Rendon, Urquidy, and Grandal. Luckily both Maeda and Castillo have both finally been pitching better lately, so maybe they can keep me in the hunt enough to still make a run at things. But at the same time I can certainly see my team scuffling over the next few weeks and have to consider looking to sell at the deadline instead of buy. Goes to show how random fantasy can be after all the hard work that goes into it

[Hollywood42]

FYI our trade deadline was set to August 20th which is way too late. I'm going to bump it up to August 2nd which is more reasonable - just over 2 weeks away

[Viking6]

Tough loss with Acuna going down.

No issues with the trade deadline movement date. I was expecting the deadline to be around now. Maybe push it up into July next year.

Seems kind of odd with 2 teams currently in the playoffs willing to sell off for future assets. Never a bad time to acquire talent thou

[Hollywood42]

Maybe related, maybe not, but it also feels like it's getting harder and harder to find good players worth buying at the deadline for a team in the hunt in exchange for good keeper options

Of the 12 first round picks this year, Eloy and Gallen are hurt and won't be targets. Trout and Kershaw both could come back and be helpful but are currently hurt and would be a gamble. Bellinger's had a terrible year and probably won't be a big target, same with Lindor though he's been better lately. That just leaves Mookie, Freeman, JoRam, deGrom, and Scherzer as the main unkeepable buy targets, but all but one of those guys are already on a team currently in a playoff slot

Then for players that can be kept- with the way pitching has become valued in this league, just about any pitcher that's good enough to be worth trading for as a playoff team is worth considering keeping by the non-playoff team even if they may cost a top 3 round pick. With how little pitching talent is available each year, it's hard to let any talented pitching go

Then you look at teams like Jac who might not be willing to go all in this year and buy, but who already have a number of good keeper options and no real incentive to trade for other potential keepers

That basically leaves the pool of realistic trade targets for the playoff teams limited to the offensive players from only a handful of teams. And most playoff teams already have pretty good offenses, plus the way the point totals end up breaking out, it's hard to find batters that may be available who are also substantial enough of an upgrade over your current guys for it to be worth it

Not meant to be a complaint, it just seems increasingly harder to find trades that make sense for your team regardless if you're a buyer or seller

Originally Posted by Viking6

Tough loss with Acuna going down.

No issues with the trade deadline movement date. I was expecting the deadline to be around now. Maybe push it up into July next year.

Seems kind of odd with 2 teams currently in the playoffs willing to sell off for future assets. Never a bad time to acquire talent thou

[Viking6]

Originally Posted by Hollywood42

Not meant to be a complaint, it just seems increasingly harder to find trades that make sense for your team regardless if you're a buyer or seller

Yeah I agree with this for sure. It is really all about just having the right players in Sept. All the offenses every year going into the playoffs are stacked after people selling off.

It does seem to be a little lighter this year in terms of surefire keepable players. Almost everybody is a gamble for later round draft status

[Hollywood42]

I'm not saying we should make any of these changes, just postulating, but I think there's 2 main reasons for trades getting more and more difficult-

1. Batter vs pitcher valuation. Right now it feels like you're starting off in a big hole if you don't keep 3+ pitchers. Don't think there's anything left to do than bump up hitting points slightly

2. Some limit on how long you can keep a player. The longer the league goes on, the more great super cheap keepers pop up that won't make it back to the draft for 10+ years. The first round of keepers we found guys like Bieber, Soto, Flaherty, Buehler, Realmuto, Hader, Brantley all be kept in rounds 15-20. 2020's keepers added Ohtani, Tatis, Glasnow, Acuna, Albies all in the 5-15 round range and Woodruff, Giolito, Meadows, Bichette, Yordan, LeMahieu, Soroka all in the 15-25 round range. Then 2021's keepers adds Plesac, Soroka, Burnes, Tucker to the list of late round keepers. No, not all of those guys are the Soto, Bieber, or Flaherty types where there is literally no incentive to ever more the guys for 10+ years, and sometimes late round keepers don't pan out, but we're seeing more and more guys getting kept later and later which in turn makes it harder and harder for teams in the running to find guys worthwhile to add as well as teams out of the running to find new keepers better than their late rounders. Teams that find these guys for great cost should absolutely be rewarded, but with the keeper price only escalating by 1 round a year and no limits to how long guys can be kept, we're adding great keepers at a wayyy faster rate than great players are re-entering the draft pool

Again not formally raising either of these as changes we should consider, there's a lot more that would go into that and I don't want to go down that rabbit hole at this point, but those are 2 things that I'd strongly take into consideration if I were to do it all over again

Originally Posted by Viking6

Yeah I agree with this for sure. It is really all about just having the right players in Sept. All the offenses every year going into the playoffs are stacked after people selling off.

It does seem to be a little lighter this year in terms of surefire keepable players. Almost everybody is a gamble for later round draft status

[Viking6]

High end pitchers are just dominant in a points league. You can't really change that.

How would you want to boost hitters? Maybe go -.5 on Strikeouts instead of the full point?

It might be tough to implement a 3 year keeper limit or something like that at this point.

[Hollywood42]

Like I said not even trying to open the rabbit hole of suggesting we should do any of that here. Just postulating

Re hitters, it's definitely possible. Yes, the best SPs do just have huge value simply by nature of points leagues and needing to let depth pitchers have any value. Plus there's simply less high end pitching talent in the MLB than there is high end hitting talent. But this league by far has the biggest infatuation with SPs of any league of mine with this same setting. Like, this year Gallen went in the 1st round, Carrasco, Hendricks, and Ryu went in the 2nd, Strasburg, Marquez, and Musgrove went in the 3rd. Meanwhile we have Bregman and Arenado going 17/18 overall, Rizzo, Goldschmidt, Whit going in the 4th, Semien, Matt Chapman, Altuve going in the 5th, and so on. The valuation is just all sorts of broken. I don't want to blame a single person for this but I do gotta say it starts with Ksmith doing his pitcher hoarding (fully within his rights). You know if there's a good pitcher available in the draft, he'll take him. And since he's already starting with 4-5 great pitchers as keepers, if he gets a few more, the season's just about over before it starts unless multiple of his guys get injured, again due to the natural necessary valuation of the top SPs. But you know you need good pitching to have any chance too, so your choices are to overdraft SPs or try to get lucky off the scrap heap. It starts with that and then bleeds back over to keeper selections where a bunch of SPs are getting kept just because that's the best opportunity you have to lock several into your roster. I'm as much guilty of that as anyone, I kept 4 SPs this year. But I felt like I had to in order to have a chance. I know I'm perpetuating the problem, but what other choice do I have? So the cycle continues

As for the actual point totals, my redrafter's league give hitters 1.5 points for each RBI and each run, plus gives 5 points for a pitcher win and 2.5 for a quality start. I'm not a huge fan of wins over QS but it kinda makes sense in today's game. I'd have to do the math to see if swapping those values makes a big difference. But overall hitters and pitchers end up being valued pretty evenly there and there's opportunity to be equally as successful if you relied on a stud group of hitters and meh pitchers, or a study group of pitchers and meh hitters. Would be really hard to make such a big change to this league but that's the only way I really see to solve the core issue

Originally Posted by Viking6

High end pitchers are just dominant in a points league. You can't really change that.

How would you want to boost hitters? Maybe go -.5 on Strikeouts instead of the full point?

It might be tough to implement a 3 year keeper limit or something like that at this point.

[jstasyk1121]

not to necessarily pick sides or anything....

i came in year two and luckily did get 2 of the best keepers options...those were just random luck that the guy drafted buehler in like rd16 that first yr...and that he picked up Soto as a FA....

but after that...im very active on the FA market and i have added all kinds of big talent from there...and either kept them or traded them the following year pre-draft...

Some teams are never going to improve because they simply dont really play the game (not active at all)

i dont like the idea of trying to "balance" anything when in reality all you are doing is penalizing people who take it seriously and make moves all the time in hopes guys stick or are good enough to use for trade bait...

I cant even remember all the guys i have gotten as FA that would have been stud keepers for others and if i didnt trade them they just got tossed back and redrafted 10 rounds higher....

This year alone ive got: Jared Walsh, Alex Manoah, TREVOR ROGERS from free agent list after the draft/during the season...all 3 of those could be huge for a handful of teams...they went undrafted....in years past ive grabbed F.Valdez, DJ Lemahieu in his huge year, Cronenworth and on and on...there is tons of value to be had and that could enhance teams for the future...but i feel like there are a handful of teams that dont really pay much attn...

so no i dont want to change anything to help them be able to "set it and forget it" all season

just some of my thoughts on it

i know i was given a nice head start (remember that prior owner wasnt even going to keep Soto!!!) but ive worked hard to always keep my core evolving and using other valuable pieces to make moves and try to always go for the win...

[Hollywood42]

Yeah the time you put into it definitely matters a lot. And tbh I don't think that's ever gonna go away. But there's also undeniable overemphasis on pitching as well

[jstasyk1121]

I still dont really get the uproar either...like i know this is a basic breakdown and doesnt take into acct who has great keepers later in draft so they have them PLUS all their early round picks...

but overall:

#1 Hitter
Ohtani- 467 pts but this is his combined total so lets not count him
Vlad Jr. 336pts

#1 Pitcher
Degrom 392pts--so about 55pts ahead...in like 14-15wks...3-4pts per week

#5 Hitter
Tatis Jr. 272pts

#5 Pitcher
Woodruff 360pts---this is the big gap...the very tip top of the lists...which is true is like every pts league ive ever been in as other have stated as well

#15 Hitter
Freeman 254 pts

#15 Pitcher
R.Ray 284 pts...30pts is like 2pts/wk

#25 Hitter
B.Reynolds 236--good for this guy! nice season

#25 Pitcher
Alcantara 256pts

#50 Hitter
Kris Bryant 199pts

#50 Pitcher
Luis Garcia 199pts

Hitters so far over 250pts: 19
Pitchers so far over 250pts: 25

i honestly dont think it comes down to pitching vs hitting....

it comes down to who has done a better job at keepers and being able to then add to it with the remaining early round talent

KSmith should never change his strategy...should it work?? i mean yea it should...he routinely has a deep like 8 man rotation of like top 50 SPs at worst...that is a big deal and he isnt just using late round picks...he keeps anyone no matter the round...

last year he made like 2 picks before pick 90 or something!! and we are still gonna sit here and complain?? he used all his early rounds on his keepers!! at like fair value or overpaid to keep them!!

[Hollywood42]

That's kinda what I'm saying- the point system isn't that bad, it's the valuation so we get stuff like people feeling they have to take Kyle Hendricks going in the 2nd round. What kind of craziness is that?

[Viking6]

I find everybody to be active enough outside of Diem who basically ghosted the season after the draft. Realistically thou anybody should be able to find 2-3 keepers for a season off the FA pool every year whether it is Prospects or Vets such as Robbie Ray who reinvent themselves.... It takes a little bit of luck/timing as well.

I personally don't think the Wins vs Quality starts makes that much of a difference. The main difference is what you mentioned of the Top 30 Pitchers vs 31-60 etc. The Scherzers/Coles/Giolitos are gonna go out and average 20. Then one of your bottom end starts comes out and throws up the -12 after getting rocked. KSmith is just limiting his weak starts by stocking up on quality early. I have no issues with that.

[jstasyk1121]

Originally Posted by Hollywood42

That's kinda what I'm saying- the point system isn't that bad, it's the valuation so we get stuff like people feeling they have to take Kyle Hendricks going in the 2nd round. What kind of craziness is that?

yea i mean if you were to shift your thought on the fact that 60 players were kept already so essentially Hendriks was a 7th round pick

sure you dont love the idea of taking him over maybe a more proven hitter...but also out of the 60 keepers im thinking its prob 40/20 in favor of SPs being kept...i could be wrong and didnt look it up...but yea then if you kept 4 good hitters and a decent SP3 or something in round 15...you are likely going to need to draft some pitching earlier than you would in a redraft league

and because the pitching pool and who is reliable gets shallow much quicker than the hitting side...so like you said you cant wait it out...sure you can find gems but if you just disregard it then you are putting out 12 starts a week of guys who are inconsistent and that will lead to inconsistent results! LOL

Like i feel much better about a 300pt hitter over the season than a 300pt pitcher...cuz that pitcher is gonna have some 40+ pt weeks and some ugly -15's as well like Viking said...lol...

meanwhile the hitter will just naturally be a "safer bet" week over week

[Hollywood42]

Idk man you can't convince me that how SPs are valued in this league is normal. Again I get why we're here and I'm not even saying it's a problem per se, it's just not something I'm in love with is all. The idea of Hendricks in reality being a 7th rounder is fine and all but with that we still have Bregman/Arenado going in the 7th as well, Goldy and Whit in the 9th, and so on. Genuinely not complaining about any of this, it is what it is. Just thinking about how I would set things up differently if starting over

Originally Posted by jstasyk1121

yea i mean if you were to shift your thought on the fact that 60 players were kept already so essentially Hendriks was a 7th round pick

sure you dont love the idea of taking him over maybe a more proven hitter...but also out of the 60 keepers im thinking its prob 40/20 in favor of SPs being kept...i could be wrong and didnt look it up...but yea then if you kept 4 good hitters and a decent SP3 or something in round 15...you are likely going to need to draft some pitching earlier than you would in a redraft league

and because the pitching pool and who is reliable gets shallow much quicker than the hitting side...so like you said you cant wait it out...sure you can find gems but if you just disregard it then you are putting out 12 starts a week of guys who are inconsistent and that will lead to inconsistent results! LOL

Like i feel much better about a 300pt hitter over the season than a 300pt pitcher...cuz that pitcher is gonna have some 40+ pt weeks and some ugly -15's as well like Viking said...lol...

meanwhile the hitter will just naturally be a "safer bet" week over week

[Hollywood42]

Lololol a -30 point outing from Folty tonight sure sounds about right. I was down -15 to 47 after the first day of this matchup and that pretty much set the tone. Didn't really put up any more points than my team usually does on a normal length week

-30 has gotta be the worst SP stat of the year, right??