2025 Baseball Hall of Fame

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Don Sutton.

Okay, he was elected in 1998. Unlike Perry, though, he was never suspended -- only ejected. The piece of sh*t did walk a fine line lol:

There were always suspicions, suggestions, sometimes accusations that Don Sutton knew how to scuff a ball--cut it, mark it so that it would move to his advantage.

Did he? Sutton doesn’t directly answer the query.

“I never got caught scuffing a ball,” he said, smiling. “I got accused of throwing a defaced ball, and I confess, too, of never throwing a ball out of play if it was dirty or banged up. Only an idiot would do that.

Umpire Doug Harvey ejected Sutton from a 1978 game in St. Louis for throwing a defaced ball, and an American League umpiring crew displayed a bag full of defaced balls after a game he pitched with the Angels in Anaheim. However, he was never suspended or fined. His stiffest penalty was a letter of reprimand from the National League.

“So in the future,” he said, referring to the St. Louis incident, “I gave the umpires my word that if I came across a ball that had something wrong with it, I would point it out to them.”

Did he honor that?

“Yes, I did,” he said. “Some of the time.”

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...446-story.html

I'm looking for a player inducted since the internet age who was officially caught cheating and publicly named by the league -- like Beltran.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Okay, he was elected in 1998. Unlike Perry, though, he was never suspended -- only ejected. The piece of sh*t did walk a fine line lol:


https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...446-story.html

I'm looking for a player inducted since the internet age who was officially caught cheating and publicly named by the league -- like Beltran.

If not Beltran, Altuve may be the next guy to face some sort of official cheating issue and be elected.

[gmarutiak]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Ortiz did fail a test. He failed the 2003 test and admitted it. Manfred just decided to campaign for Big Papi because he finds him loveable.

He never admitted to anything. He said he was going to find out what happened with the test and let the public know. I'm still waiting.

[JimEd14]

Originally Posted by gmarutiak

He never admitted to anything. He said he was going to find out what happened with the test and let the public know. I'm still waiting.

He is still waiting too. Ortiz was never told what he tested positive for, or if even he was actually one of the ones that tested positive. The NYT had a list that exceeded the total number of positive tests.

He then went the next 13 years never testing positive.

[sauceboy]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Ortiz did fail a test. He failed the 2003 test and admitted it.

Doesn't sound like he admitted to much:

"Let me tell you something. Say whatever you want about me -- love me, hate me," Ortiz wrote. "But I'm no bulls------. I never knowingly took any steroids. If I tested positive for anything, it was for something in pills I bought at the damn mall. If you think that ruins everything I have done in this game, there is nothing I can say to convince you different.

Originally Posted by JimEd14

He is still waiting too. Ortiz was never told what he tested positive for, or if even he was actually one of the ones that tested positive. The NYT had a list that exceeded the total number of positive tests.

He then went the next 13 years never testing positive.

Right, and those were the most productive years of his career.

[carlo16]

No arguing today out of respect for Bob Uecker. Terrible day for baseball and my childhood.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

When did he admit to it? Do you have a link? I did a light Google search, but couldn’t find anything. I believe you, I just want to find a quote.

From Wikipedia:

“On July 30, 2009, The New York Times, citing anonymous sources, reported that Ortiz was among a group of over 100 major league players on a list compiled by federal investigators, that allegedly tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs during Major League Baseball survey testing conducted in spring training of 2003.[116] The survey testing was agreed to by Major League Baseball and the Major League Baseball Players Association to determine the extent of performance-enhancing drug use among players before permanent testing was officially implemented starting in 2004. As part of the agreement, the results of the survey testing were supposed to remain confidential and no suspensions or penalties would be issued to any player testing positive.”

Again, not trying to make an argument that he didn’t, just looking at the facts as we know them.

No worries. I'm really not that passionate one way or another about Ortiz. He was a great player.

Originally Posted by gmarutiak

He never admitted to anything. He said he was going to find out what happened with the test and let the public know. I'm still waiting.

He 100% admitted to failing the test.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Okay, he was elected in 1998. Unlike Perry, though, he was never suspended -- only ejected. The piece of sh*t did walk a fine line lol:


https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...446-story.html

I'm looking for a player inducted since the internet age who was officially caught cheating and publicly named by the league -- like Beltran.

Sutton was suspended for 10 games for scuffing the ball. However, they removed the suspension when he threatened to sue the league. Funny quote of his from when he played with Gaylord:

"He gave me a tube of Vaseline," joked Sutton. "I thanked him and gave him a piece of sandpaper." Umpires took the allegations seriously, and sometimes gave him a good going over. Once, he left a note inside his glove for the men in black. It said, "You're getting warm, but it's not here."

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

He 100% admitted to failing the test.

Do you have a link to a quote on that?

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

Do you have a link to a quote on that?

I'd have to do more digging to find the actual quote, but here's an article from back then referencing his admission...

https://nypost.com/2009/08/07/ortiz-...r-air-on-test/

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

I'd have to do more digging to find the actual quote, but here's an article from back then referencing his admission...

https://nypost.com/2009/08/07/ortiz-...r-air-on-test/

The relevant parts from the article (let me know if I missed anything):

Ortiz promised last week to get to the bottom of his failed test and to speak publicly about it when he did. He met with Players Association officials before last night’s game, and may have gotten the answers he was looking for.

It is possible Ortiz failed a test for a supplement tainted with steroids.

“I’m going to let you guys know what I’ve got, period,” Ortiz said after going 0-for-5 against the Yankees last night.”

“We’re trying to figure things out and move on,” Ortiz said. “I’m not going to keep this in my head my whole career. It’s not like I have 10 years left. It’s the kind of situation where you get frustrated.”

I don’t really view any of that as an admission to anything, but if that is for some people…

It’s definitely not enough for me to be as confident as you are about it.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

The relevant parts from the article (let me know if I missed anything):

Ortiz promised last week to get to the bottom of his failed test and to speak publicly about it when he did. He met with Players Association officials before last night’s game, and may have gotten the answers he was looking for.

It is possible Ortiz failed a test for a supplement tainted with steroids.

“I’m going to let you guys know what I’ve got, period,” Ortiz said after going 0-for-5 against the Yankees last night.”

“We’re trying to figure things out and move on,” Ortiz said. “I’m not going to keep this in my head my whole career. It’s not like I have 10 years left. It’s the kind of situation where you get frustrated.”

I don’t really view any of that as an admission to anything, but if that is for some people…

It’s definitely not enough for me to be as confident as you are about it.

He's still trying to find the real killer?

[rms13]

What do we think about Pedroia's chances? He's one of my PC guys so I have a vested interest. Definitely not first ballot but I think he should eventually be in. Problem is he only really played 11 seasons with 40 combined games over 3 other seasons. .299 hitter, ROY, MVP, 2 WS, 4 AS, 4 GG, 1 platinum glove. I'd argue he was the best second baseman in baseball for a decade which is one of my personal HOF criteria. Very similar to Buster Posey. I do think Posey is a HOF and have no personal interests in him so I'm less biased. But if I think he's a HOF then I have to believe Pedroia is too.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by rms13

What do we think about Pedroia's chances? He's one of my PC guys so I have a vested interest. Definitely not first ballot but I think he should eventually be in. Problem is he only really played 11 seasons with 40 combined games over 3 other seasons. .299 hitter, ROY, MVP, 2 WS, 4 AS, 4 GG, 1 platinum glove. I'd argue he was the best second baseman in baseball for a decade which is one of my personal HOF criteria. Very similar to Buster Posey. I do think Posey is a HOF and have no personal interests in him so I'm less biased. But if I think he's a HOF then I have to believe Pedroia is too.

he will get in eventually

[JimEd14]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

he will get in eventually

You think so?

Pedroia fan here, I wasn't so sure and really lean no. But happy to hear others think yes.

As for the Posey comparison, feel that doing what he did at catcher is his real selling card.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by JRX

He's still trying to find the real killer?

Maybe.

If you think he took steroids, there’s things for you to latch onto to help prove your point.

If you don’t think he took steroids, there’s things for you to latch onto to help prove your point.

I’m only asking for a link to the quote where he admitted it. That’s all.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

he will get in eventually

Everyone borderline is going to get in eventually.....that's the way it's been for pretty much the last 20 years.....

[JRX]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

Maybe.

If you think he took steroids, there’s things for you to latch onto to help prove your point.

If you don’t think he took steroids, there’s things for you to latch onto to help prove your point.

I’m only asking for a link to the quote where he admitted it. That’s all.

His stats are evidence enough. Nobody outside of Bonds hit that well at those ages especially after it looked like he was washed up.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by JRX

His stats are evidence enough. Nobody outside of Bonds hit that well at those ages especially after it looked like he was washed up.

For you it’s his stats. See?

[JRX]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

For you it’s his stats. See?

Look up players ages 36+ seasons, add in the "failed" test, playing with super roid users, there's a ton of smoke with Ortiz.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by JRX

Look up players ages 36+ seasons, add in the "failed" test, playing with super roid users, there's a ton of smoke with Ortiz.

Not saying there isn’t.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

The relevant parts from the article (let me know if I missed anything):

Ortiz promised last week to get to the bottom of his failed test and to speak publicly about it when he did. He met with Players Association officials before last night’s game, and may have gotten the answers he was looking for.

It is possible Ortiz failed a test for a supplement tainted with steroids.

“I’m going to let you guys know what I’ve got, period,” Ortiz said after going 0-for-5 against the Yankees last night.”

“We’re trying to figure things out and move on,” Ortiz said. “I’m not going to keep this in my head my whole career. It’s not like I have 10 years left. It’s the kind of situation where you get frustrated.”

I don’t really view any of that as an admission to anything, but if that is for some people…

It’s definitely not enough for me to be as confident as you are about it.

Why wouldn't I be confident? I literally watched him live talking to the reporters about being informed he failed the test. He admitted to being told by the Players Association he failed it and the article literally references that he said he did. He also said he had no idea why he failed it but would get to the bottom of it and report back. His having failed it has never been in question. The only thing in question is the fact he denies taking anything and Manfred retroactively calling the test results in question when asked about Ortiz.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

Not saying there isn’t.

Sprinkle on getting a complete pass from the media. They purposefully don't investigate him like arod, manny, bonds etc.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by rms13

What do we think about Pedroia's chances? He's one of my PC guys so I have a vested interest. Definitely not first ballot but I think he should eventually be in. Problem is he only really played 11 seasons with 40 combined games over 3 other seasons. .299 hitter, ROY, MVP, 2 WS, 4 AS, 4 GG, 1 platinum glove. I'd argue he was the best second baseman in baseball for a decade which is one of my personal HOF criteria. Very similar to Buster Posey. I do think Posey is a HOF and have no personal interests in him so I'm less biased. But if I think he's a HOF then I have to believe Pedroia is too.

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

he will get in eventually

Agreed. Though Pedroia does have the makings of a classic Veterans Committee selection. Though he is nothing like Posey because he wasn't a catcher. The bar is a lot different for catchers.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Agreed. Though Pedroia does have the makings of a classic Veterans Committee selection. Though he is nothing like Posey because he wasn't a catcher. The bar is a lot different for catchers.

What is the cutoff for playing time exactly? He's played fewer games than Mattingly.