2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by bradical

I definitely think a stronger mandate up front on the restrictions/lock downs. Look at back in March, part of the country was sending their workforce home while the other was welcoming spring breakers to their beaches.

I firmly believe that a stronger lockdown up front, back in March/April could have helped reduce our numbers drastically. In other countries, much more densely populated than us, their streets looked like ghost towns, everyone taking precautions and staying inside. Our country? Beaches packed, stores packed, some with masks, others without. No firm direction on what should be done. Leaving it up to the states to decide was just a way from him to take zero accountability on decisions or direction. 50-cooks in the kitchen is always the way to get unprecedented things accomplished. It shows he lacks leadership at the most basic levels.

My man, there was nothing to be done. I agree that if there was a stronger lockdown done upfront, the numbers in the beginning would have been reduced. But that isn't worth anything. Because all that means is that when you decide to open back up, the virus will hit more people and the numbers will even themselves out. The virus doesn't go away. No lockdown has worked, anywhere. Look at all of the countries getting hit for a second round now; South Korea, Germany, Europe as a whole etc. Nobody beat this.

And this is far from over. Countries in cold weather climates are going to have to make very hard decisions on whether or not to shut down entire industries in the winter if they want to truly protect against COVID. Eating outside here in the states is not going to happen up north in a few weeks; are we closing down all restaurants, again? NO!

Nobody was going to stop this. Nobody stopped this. Nobody will stop this. Hopefully we're on the backside of the timeline but unless you are or were prepared to stay away from human interaction for the better part of a full year if not more (no guarantee of a vaccine), the outcome was always going to be this.

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by lionsfan20

Ha you know that comes back to parenting. I'm guessing most on the left that are acting this way didn't get that guidance that is so important for a child.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Again, point me to where I wished any kind of ill will on Donald Trump? I didn't offer thoughts and prayers because I'm an atheist. I wish him well and hope he and everyone else afflicted recover and are back to good health. I agree that anyone celebrating this or making jokes are lame and a bit classless, but that's the world today.

Don't like the guy and hope he loses but I don't want anything like this to happen to him. It's not good for anyone. I heard Pence was negative so I'm happy to hear that. A negative test is always a good thing in my mind, regardless of who it's for.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

What did I say that was offensive? I said I don't wish ill on the man like this. Can't stand him but I don't want to see him, or any President get seriously ill. It's not good for anyone if that happens. Sorry I'm not going to through some thoughts and prayers his way. I hope he and everyone else that contracts COVID comes out okay and healthy when all is said and done.

Nothing offensive; but preening on Trump after a diagnosis is certainly no better than doing so after the the smoker gets a lung cancer diagnosis or the Pepsi drinker learns of their diabetes. You just don't have to do to it is all ...

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Nothing offensive; but preening on Trump after a diagnosis is certainly no better than doing so after the the smoker gets a lung cancer diagnosis or the Pepsi drinker learns of their diabetes. You just don't have to do to it is all ...

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

[Boo]

Originally Posted by 49ersSF

Finally some positive news about Covid-19. Trump has it.

Originally Posted by Brobocop

Again, point me to where I wished any kind of ill will on Donald Trump? I didn't offer thoughts and prayers because I'm an atheist. I wish him well and hope he and everyone else afflicted recover and are back to good health. I agree that anyone celebrating this or making jokes are lame and a bit classless, but that's the world today.

Don't like the guy and hope he loses but I don't want anything like this to happen to him. It's not good for anyone. I heard Pence was negative so I'm happy to hear that. A negative test is always a good thing in my mind, regardless of who it's for.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

My man, there was nothing to be done. I agree that if there was a stronger lockdown done upfront, the numbers in the beginning would have been reduced. But that isn't worth anything. Because all that means is that when you decide to open back up, the virus will hit more people and the numbers will even themselves out. The virus doesn't go away. No lockdown has worked, anywhere. Look at all of the countries getting hit for a second round now; South Korea, Germany, Europe as a whole etc. Nobody beat this.

And this is far from over. Countries in cold weather climates are going to have to make very hard decisions on whether or not to shut down entire industries in the winter if they want to truly protect against COVID. Eating outside here in the states is not going to happen up north in a few weeks; are we closing down all restaurants, again? NO!

Nobody was going to stop this. Nobody stopped this. Nobody will stop this. Hopefully we're on the backside of the timeline but unless you are or were prepared to stay away from human interaction for the better part of a full year if not more (no guarantee of a vaccine), the outcome was always going to be this.

Look at Canada right now. They're starting to lockdown again; and their initial #'s were much better than ours. In a few days, they'll pass us for positive cases (adjust for population size).

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/w...lockdowns.html



With the cold weather coming, they're in for a very terrible time up there if Trudeau decides to isolate (which many think he will). When they started to relax their lockdowns and open things up, the virus kicked back in. It's to be expected. What are they supposed to do?

[NeedChapmans]

Look at poor Israel. Currently in strict lockdown #2 (the company I work for is in Tel Aviv, cannot leave their homes except for up to one km)



Once you open up, it's back. No exceptions.

[lionsfan20]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

It's obvious your parents never taught you "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all". Many of us learned that as soon as we could talk. Along with the golden rule. Treat others as you would want to be treated. I grew up in the conservative midwest. It is clear many in this thread grew up in a different environment.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[bradical]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Look at Canada right now. They're starting to lockdown again; and their initial #'s were much better than ours. In a few days, they'll pass us for positive cases (adjust for population size).

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/w...lockdowns.html



With the cold weather coming, they're in for a very terrible time up there if Trudeau decides to isolate (which many think he will). When they started to relax their lockdowns and open things up, the virus kicked back in. It's to be expected. What are they supposed to do?

I get it, it’s going to stick around and get a lot worse before it gets better. But what’s the difference between Canada and the US? Trudeau, their President, is making the calls and decisions on what needs to be done. That’s what I am trying to get at, other leaders are making decisions (right or wrong) about how to lead their country through this. I am not seeing that with Trump. Instead, he is celebrating victories like bringing Big 10 football back.

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by lionsfan20

It's obvious your parents never taught you "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all". Many of us learned that as soon as we could talk. Along with the golden rule. Treat others as you would want to be treated. I grew up in the conservative midwest. It is clear many in this thread grew up in a different environment.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Where did I say something that wasn't nice?

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by bradical

I get it, it’s going to stick around and get a lot worse before it gets better. But what’s the difference between Canada and the US? Trudeau, their President, is making the calls and decisions on what needs to be done. That’s what I am trying to get at, other leaders are making decisions (right or wrong) about how to lead their country through this. I am not seeing that with Trump. Instead, he is celebrating victories like bringing Big 10 football back.

I understand that it would make you feel better if Trump had some kind of national COVID strategy that the country was united in; but that's not reality. This country is 50 little countries who get to make their own decisions and own rules. And in fact, that's a great thing in a time like this because it allows us to see different strategies and continue to utilize the ones that are working better than the others. If everyone followed the NY/NJ plan, the numbers would be brutal. Good thing we didn't.

But that feel good strategy isn't worth anything. The numbers are still the numbers, the virus is still here, the country is still struggling. If Trudeau goes into a full lockdown, the fear is Canada goes into a depression. And the second he opens back up, the virus will come knocking; so a depression for what?

Stay open. Take reasonable precaution. Live.

Everything else is a waste.

[pac213up]

Originally Posted by bradical

I definitely think a stronger mandate up front on the restrictions/lock downs. Look at back in March, part of the country was sending their workforce home while the other was welcoming spring breakers to their beaches.

I firmly believe that a stronger lockdown up front, back in March/April could have helped reduce our numbers drastically. In other countries, much more densely populated than us, their streets looked like ghost towns, everyone taking precautions and staying inside. Our country? Beaches packed, stores packed, some with masks, others without. No firm direction on what should be done. Leaving it up to the states to decide was just a way from him to take zero accountability on decisions or direction. 50-cooks in the kitchen is always the way to get unprecedented things accomplished. It shows he lacks leadership at the most basic levels.

A more uniform approach/plan would have certainly made a real difference. Buying time upfront would have allowed DR's to learn how to treat, allowed PPE distribution to be prioritized, allowed the supply chain to handle things better, allowed businesses to create SOPs to limit spread in the workplaces that did remain open.

50 States/50 Governors makes it difficult though, especially when the virus hit certain regions first. The goal should always be to slow the spread while maintaining as much normalcy as possible. Most of the economy can function following some simple things like - masks, social distance, and disinfect. Unfortunately the highest risk activities - crowded bars, restaurants, large indoor events, are screwed though until a vaccine is on the table.

[GOWIFB]

Originally Posted by pac213up

A more uniform approach/plan would have certainly made a real difference. Buying time upfront would have allowed DR's to learn how to treat, allowed PPE distribution to be prioritized, allowed the supply chain to handle things better, allowed businesses to create SOPs to limit spread in the workplaces that did remain open.

50 States/50 Governors makes it difficult though, especially when the virus hit certain regions first. The goal should always be to slow the spread while maintaining as much normalcy as possible. Most of the economy can function following some simple things like - masks, social distance, and disinfect. Unfortunately the highest risk activities - crowded bars, restaurants, large indoor events, are screwed though until a vaccine is on the table.

Very well put, was just about to write something similar.

[TheHeel]

MSNBC reporting that Trump has "mild" symptoms. This was from the White House which probably means that Trump has severe symptoms.

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by TheHeel

MSNBC reporting that Trump has "mild" symptoms. This was from MSNBC which probably means that Trump has no symptoms.

FIFY.

[gopherfan]

Originally Posted by Hootiefish

Fifty years is an extremely short amount of time. And the statement is entirely factual. Read up on the Southern Strategy and Lee Atwater.

In fact, Reagan also courted the white supremacist vote, telling voters in Mississippi that he believed in "states' rights." So it's even more recent than Nixon.

That is what the country was founded on. It's why we are a Republic. Is this comment real?

[coachnip13]

Originally Posted by gopherfan

That is what the country was founded on. It's why we are a Republic. Is this comment real?

That's a real quote from Hootie? He thinks that "states rights" was a racist Reagan thing?

[MIRRABB]

Originally Posted by gopherfan

That is what the country was founded on. It's why we are a Republic. Is this comment real?

What he is referencing is a specific quote on the Southern Strategy from Lee Atwater, who was incredibly influential in marketing Republicans in the South during the 70's and 80's and was largely responsible for getting HW Bush and Reagan elected. The quote can't be posted here, of course.

[bradical]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

I understand that it would make you feel better if Trump had some kind of national COVID strategy that the country was united in; but that's not reality. This country is 50 little countries who get to make their own decisions and own rules. And in fact, that's a great thing in a time like this because it allows us to see different strategies and continue to utilize the ones that are working better than the others. If everyone followed the NY/NJ plan, the numbers would be brutal. Good thing we didn't.

But that feel good strategy isn't worth anything. The numbers are still the numbers, the virus is still here, the country is still struggling. If Trudeau goes into a full lockdown, the fear is Canada goes into a depression. And the second he opens back up, the virus will come knocking; so a depression for what?

Stay open. Take reasonable precaution. Live.

Everything else is a waste.

I think Canada, and other counties, are putting the lives of their citizens ahead of the livelihood of their citizens. It’s commendable.

I think the problem with your laissez faire approach to handling this is that we as a country have proven (over and over) that their a very different understandings of what reasonable is.

[discostu]

Originally Posted by cnewby

FIFY.

Originally Posted by cnewby

Its crystal clear to logical-thinking people. Unfortunately, too many sheep on that side of the aisle can't think for themselves.

You posted a picture of a crease in a shirt and rosary beads and alluded that they were something nefarious.

So perhaps you shouldn't be including yourself in "logical-thinking people" and leave the FIFY to others.

[coachnip13]

Originally Posted by bradical

I think Canada, and other counties, are putting the lives of their citizens ahead of the livelihood of their citizens. It’s commendable.

What he keeps trying to tell you is that while ruining livelihoods, you really aren't saving that many lives.

[mnvikingstwins]

I’m just going to say what we’re all thinking.

Trump was fine until the debate, where they set up microphones & podiums for him.

Incubation period is usually 2-3 days.

He tests positive a couple of days after the debate.

I put nothing past the left. NOTHING.

#TrumpHasCOVID

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by bradical

I think Canada, and other counties, are putting the lives of their citizens ahead of the livelihood of their citizens. It’s commendable.

I think the problem with your laissez faire approach to handling this is that we as a country have proven (over and over) that their a very different understandings of what reasonable is.

Canada is putting the lives of it's citizens as it relates to COVID only ahead of everything else. If you wanted to, you could spend a year reading the sad stories from people in this country who have died as a result of the lockdown, never contracting the virus. To pretend that locking people down only saves lives is also, not reality.

What Canada is doing (or about to do) is not commendable. That you believe sacrificing freedom in the name of public health is OK suggests we're just never going to see the world the same.

[pac213up]

Originally Posted by bradical

I think Canada, and other counties, are putting the lives of their citizens ahead of the livelihood of their citizens. It’s commendable.

I think the problem with your laissez faire approach to handling this is that we as a country have proven (over and over) that their a very different understandings of what reasonable is.

Canada's positive test rate is also still much lower than the initial wave. It is a much more stable situation right now because of the actions they took. Due to testing capacity the early numbers of all areas was likely much higher than could be reported because they were not testing like they do today.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by pac213up

Canada's positive test rate is also still much lower than the initial wave. It is a much more stable situation right now because of the actions they took. Due to testing capacity the early numbers of all areas was likely much higher than could be reported because they were not testing like they do today.

Everything you just said is also true of the U.S.