Topps Project 2020 is the worst product since 1991 Fleer

[Silas Barnaby]

Originally Posted by Boredlawyer

I get a vibe that criticizing artists is considered taboo, as if their business operates on a moral plane that exists on a higher level than non-artists

Criticizing artists for selling products with poor quality--you're criticizing their soul and psyche.

You can't do that man. These guys, you know, they're pacifists. JK5 was a conscientious objector.

You know Dude, I myself dabbled with pacifism at one point. Not in Nam, of course--

And you know he's got emotional problems man!

You mean--beyond pacifism?

He's fragile, very fragile!

[redauto5]

Originally Posted by Boredlawyer

I get a vibe that criticizing artists is considered taboo, as if their business operates on a moral plane that exists on a higher level than non-artists

Criticizing Topps for off-centered cards and damaged corners--perfectly acceptable.

Criticizing artists for selling products with poor quality--you're criticizing their soul and psyche.

Their businesses do operate on a higher plane man. A plane full of understanding of the whole picture, which includes them trying things out, putting products out into the marketplace they've never attempted at volumes that they've never dreamed of. Because we are stoked for them. Im not saying there shouldn't be any accountability, but there should be grace and understanding. If that can't be mustered, its probably best not to participate in this phenomenon. Because phenomenon it is. A glorious one at that. I love seeing these artists stretch themselves, try things out, and realize opportunities that we their audience participate in. It's freaking rewarding man.

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[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by redauto5

Their businesses do operate on a higher plane man. A plane full of understanding of the whole picture, which includes them trying things out, putting products out into the marketplace they've never attempted at volumes that they've never dreamed of. Because we are stoked for them. Im not saying there shouldn't be any accountability, but there should be grace and understanding. If that can't be mustered, its probably best not to participate in this phenomenon. Because phenomenon it is. A glorious one at that. I love seeing these artists stretch themselves, try things out, and realize opportunities that we their audience participate in. It's freaking rewarding man.

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that's like, your opinion man

[fjdlrw]

This was tougher than I thought, and some of them could change if I were to put together another list tomorrow. Here's my favorite for each artist:

Andrew Thiele: Nolan Ryan
Ben Baller: Cal Ripken Jr.
Blake Jamieson: Rickey Henderson
Don C: Tony Gwynn
Efdot: George Brett
Ermsy: Ichiro
Fucci: Frank Thomas
Gregory Siff: Cal Ripken Jr.
Grotesk: Ted Williams
JK5: Derek Jeter
Jacob Rochester: Ichiro
Joshua Vides: Don Mattingly
Keith Shore: Don Mattingly
King Saladeen: Ken Griffey Jr.
Matt Taylor: Rickey Henderson
Mister Cartoon: Roberto Clemente
Naturel: George Brett
Oldmanalan: Jackie Robinson
Sophia Chang: Rickey Henderson
Tyson Beck: George Brett

Couple things that I realized doing this. First, I didn't know that I liked so many Mattingly, Rickie and Brett cards. I must subconsciously like the pictures, colors or memories. Second, as much as I know that I've liked many of the Bob Gibson cards, he wasn't my favorite of any artist. Although, Rochester was pretty close. Lastly, doing things like this make me appreciate the set and effort being put into it even more. I feel like the younger version of me cracking open packs during the 80s.

[redauto5]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

that's like, your opinion man

It, like, sure is man. Wheres samcam when I need him?

#ilovethesemen

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[mwheeler27]

Originally Posted by redauto5

Their businesses do operate on a higher plane man. A plane full of understanding of the whole picture, which includes them trying things out, putting products out into the marketplace they've never attempted at volumes that they've never dreamed of. Because we are stoked for them. Im not saying there shouldn't be any accountability, but there should be grace and understanding. If that can't be mustered, its probably best not to participate in this phenomenon. Because phenomenon it is. A glorious one at that. I love seeing these artists stretch themselves, try things out, and realize opportunities that we their audience participate in. It's freaking rewarding man.

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Very well said. Bravo.

[Silas Barnaby]

[ZiggySQ]

Originally Posted by Boredlawyer

I get a vibe that criticizing artists is considered taboo, as if their business operates on a moral plane that exists on a higher level than non-artists

Criticizing Topps for off-centered cards and damaged corners--perfectly acceptable.

Criticizing artists for selling products with poor quality--you're criticizing their soul and psyche.

How dare you criticize me - I’m an artist.

I’d be upset too if I ordered that card and got some shitty box compared to what was sold to me. If he sold through eBay that would be a legitimate INAD.


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[hammertime]

Originally Posted by Pacmeyer

Pick any product, any industry. The final product never matches the prototype and is almost always worse.

And people always complain.

[ThoseBackPages]

BO gonna BO!

[JVB]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

BO gonna BO!

Did you just tell me that I stink?

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by JVB

Did you just tell me that I stink?

HA! Blowout gonna Blowout!

[fjdlrw]

Well, the card was better than expected and the box was worse. Kind of a wash. Life's too short to let this kind of thing get you worked up. Everyone take a breath and join me in a Saturday cold one.

[JVB]

Originally Posted by fjdlrw

Well, the card was better than expected and the box was worse. Kind of a wash. Life's too short to let this kind of thing get you worked up. Everyone take a breath and join me in a Saturday cold one.

I prefer room temperature beer. Now I'm triggered.

[AirplaneDon]

Originally Posted by JVB

I don't disagree with you, and I too have seen a couple of pictures where the card fit snugly in the tray... although knowing that he used the same manufacturer as other artists I find it interesting that we didn't see these same packaging inconsistencies reported with other products as much, if at all. Is it the manufacturers fault, or did the other artists invest in higher quality materials? But that's a different conversation for another time.

As far as those who may have purchased because of the box, is it the responsibility of the customer to reach out to the business for post mock-up updates, or is it the responsibility of the business to communicate changes to the customer? I'd argue the latter although I can be biased due to an affinity for 3am kickstarter binges.

I don't have a dog in this fight, and in the long run it's just one more dip in this sinusoidal experience that we all call Project 2020.

Originally Posted by dOubleO

I think he is missing the point that when you "pre-sell" items, the consumer will highly rely on the "sample" product images to justify the purchase and price of the item.

So yes, the consumer can complain and it's not childish to complain as the marketed product didn't meet the delivered product.

JK5 has one of the interesting art in P2020 but I'm very disappointed on how he handled his reply.

Some artists in P2020 can learn from Thiele's School of Branding

Originally Posted by hammertime

Agreed 100%. It's ridiculous and incredibly inefficient to expect customers to ask if the product matches the mock-ups. Communication is key and if he was too busy or couldn't have bothered to shotgun out one update to everyone who bought them, who really thinks a bunch of people sending messages individually would've gotten responses? It's not the end of the world but I don't see how you couldn't see that people would be disappointed...just look at how much discussion cases, boxes, and even %$@*ing bubble wrap have received.

Underpromise, overdeliver...it's a simple concept, but simple and easy are not the same thing I guess.

Here’s where the crux of my disagreement comes with all the above, I view the product delivered by JK5 as this:

MSRP = JK5’s vision, creativity, art, and time
Free, included with purchases: Box and any other pageantry.

So JK5 is dealing with a bunch of people complaining about the free throw in on his art, at least if he values his art, which I assume he does. I feel for people who were on the fence about spending ~$100 give or take on a small piece of art and the box was the deciding factor. But art is typically not cheap and isn’t a customer service based industry.

[fjdlrw]

Originally Posted by JVB

I prefer room temperature beer. Now I'm triggered.

Well, go to hell then.

[Jopeal]

[ZiggySQ]

On another note, I just got my Taylor Clemente in. What an awesome card. I can’t wait to have them all!





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[Ctjwa]

People got excited about the box, and were letdown. I understand that. It was clearly a nice wooden box in the advertisement, but came with a decent looking cardboard box. That’s why Saladeen’s moneybear got hyped when it came literally in the same type of box but without expectations.

More broadly, from a business perspective it shows that people were hyped about a nice box. If these artists could start over, maybe they include a nice wooden box with the first companion card even if it means making zero profit...because the box would have slots to fit all 20 companion cards. That’s how you get OCD collectors with discretionary cash to buy all 20. As it is now, he made some decent coin by going cheap, and prolly lost a lot of the buyers for the next 18 cards.

[AeroFishOne]

So my Trout is “running late” since being accepted on 8/4 and hasn’t had an update since leaving Opa Locka Fl

[UGLI baby]

Anyone that was in this thread during JK5's companion drop knows that 100% of the talk, hype, and excitement was about the box. Everyone assumed that it would be made of wood.

It's not anyone who purchased it's responsibility to guess or research whether or not the product shown would be the one delivered.

While I feel for him taking all this heat, it was 100% his mistake that led to this and he should own it. I like the artists, but not sure why people are acting like they're fragile and shouldn't have to own up to their mistakes.

I don't think that JK5 did this with an ulterior motive, but he goofed and upset a lot of people and it's his mess to clean up.

[Ctjwa]

Thoughts on 99,100,101,102:

Beck Koufax - looks great without a border, and detail is crisp.
Blake Trout - card looks flat and dull. Diamonds don’t work when printed on paper. Might look ok on chrome, we’ll see when the Baller chrome set comes out.
Rochester Mays - The black border makes it decent, but not a lot going on here.
Shore Brett - this guy’s art was made for beer cans and baseball cards. Looks great.

I think the artists who create on digital have sharper/cleaner cards than the ones that create on paper and then scan them in. Something gets lost in that digitalization process.

[Boredlawyer]

Originally Posted by Ctjwa

Thoughts on 99,100,101,102:

Beck Koufax - looks great without a border, and detail is crisp.
Blake Trout - card looks flat and dull. Diamonds don’t work when printed on paper. Might look ok on chrome, we’ll see when the Baller chrome set comes out.
Rochester Mays - The black border makes it decent, but not a lot going on here.
Shore Brett - this guy’s art was made for beer cans and baseball cards. Looks great.

I think the artists who create on digital have sharper/cleaner cards than the ones that create on paper and then scan them in. Something gets lost in that digitalization process.

Oh no, that Trout is an abomination.

[Ctjwa]

For what it’s worth 99-102 all came in BCW 180pt one touches, so hopefully that means Topps is done with the generic fat packs, and they’re about to ship the next 100 cards quickly.

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by Ctjwa

People got excited about the box, and were letdown. I understand that. It was clearly a nice wooden box in the advertisement, but came with a decent looking cardboard box. That’s why Saladeen’s moneybear got hyped when it came literally in the same type of box but without expectations.

More broadly, from a business perspective it shows that people were hyped about a nice box. If these artists could start over, maybe they include a nice wooden box with the first companion card even if it means making zero profit...because the box would have slots to fit all 20 companion cards. That’s how you get OCD collectors with discretionary cash to buy all 20. As it is now, he made some decent coin by going cheap, and prolly lost a lot of the buyers for the next 18 cards.

True story. We have to figure that some of the artists don't understand the mindset of sports card collectors just as we don't understand the mindset & level of business acumen of some of the artists.

There are many layers to this set.