2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

Micro venture capitalism.

If those at the bottom and middle have more financial freedom to spend and invest, it reduces the necessity to rely solely on the rich for investment in innovation.

Legitimate businesses will need a lot of capital. Eventually you will need to go to a VC or bank. Sure your angel investor may be able to invest 1k more into your business but you aren't going anywhere on UBI.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by jdandns

I can't get you anything from the original "Die Hard", but anything from the sequels, you name it!

You ain't black.

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

I am a huge fan of Andrew Yang's plan.

Also, I would add internet access to your basic utilities at this point. You can live without it, but it is so essential for employment, education, and just to get information in general that at this point I consider it a basica utility, and frankly the cost of it in this country has gotten very much out of control and needs to be regulated.

Yeah, I've been curious about the evolving platforms of Andrew Yang & Mark Cuban.

That's the first I've heard those points about internet access and regulation.
Enjoying your insights in the thread.

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

They will make less money, you are correct. However, they will still make a TON of money, and they won't lose money from coming up with something new.

That can be true, that doesn't change they will also be investing LESS into innovation. If you think the short term is more important than the long term, we won't agree. If you think long term is more important, then you shouldn't support socialism.

[Clark]

Originally Posted by mike1498

You could be right, I thought labor costs were usually around 20-30%. My question though is that 15% labor costs from China or the USA? You could be right, I just thought labor costs were higher than 10-15% at least in the USA.

USA/Canada. The auto industry is fined tuned and highly efficient. People may joke about the low skill of the employment, but the skill is being able to work a mentally and physically demanding, repetitious job.

On some assembly lines you don't have time to tie a shoelace between breaks.

Spin off auto suppliers won't be as efficient, such as small specialized shops, but they make up for it in quality or just-in-time need to the customer.

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by mike1498

Legitimate businesses will need a lot of capital. Eventually you will need to go to a VC or bank. Sure your angel investor may be able to invest 1k more into your business but you aren't going anywhere on UBI.

It's the counterpoint to to traditional VC where capital can be raised from many small investments rather than a few wealthy VC's

$5 million raised by 3,000 small investors can serve a similar function as the $5 million raised through 3 VC's

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by Clark

USA/Canada. The auto industry is fined tuned and highly efficient. People may joke about the low skill of the employment, but the skill is being able to work a mentally and physically demanding, repetitious job.

On some assembly lines you don't have time to tie a shoelace between breaks.

Spin off auto suppliers won't be as efficient, such as small specialized shops, but they make up for it in quality or just-in-time need to the customer.

I feel much safer knowing car assemblers can’t tie their shoes.

[Hootiefish]

I have to admit, I think Trump is handling his infection well.

I’m glad his handlers were able to talk him into going to the hospital, I’m glad we are getting updates from health personnel. I even thought it was cool for him to acknowledge his supporters outside with the drive-by.

Could’ve done without the blank white paper photo-op, but it was on-brand, if nothing else.

I also appreciate Biden pulling negative ads. Class move.

Hopefully by this time next week both sides can get back to busting one another’s chops.

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

I feel much safer knowing car assemblers can’t tie their shoes.

Originally Posted by Hootiefish

I have to admit, I think Trump is handling his infection well.

I’m glad his handlers were able to talk him into going to the hospital, I’m glad we are getting updates from health personnel. I even thought it was cool for him to acknowledge his supporters outside with the drive-by.

Could’ve done without the blank white paper photo-op, but it was on-brand, if nothing else.

I also appreciate Biden pulling negative ads. Class move.

Hopefully by this time next week both sides can get back to busting one another’s chops.

The Hoots rebellion

[Clark]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

I'm only ~50% sure this is satire, but either way amazing post.

Thanks! Mostly sarcasm with a slap of reality,

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

I'm going to get yelled at for stereotyping again, but he is Canadian so I assumed it was satire. They have a much lower likelyhood to be right wing nuts up there.

Originally Posted by Jopeal

I've talked with Clark enough for it to be unclear.

As I mentioned to you earlier, you'll find all sorts of folks posting in this thread.
It takes time to parse everyone out.

Man, you Americans are so polarized. "Clark is all over the place". "It must be a Canadian thing". lol

I consider myself an independent free thinker, who refuses tribal conformity. I'm not conservative or liberal, but prefer to look at an individual situation according to the facts.

Add in a dry, sarcastic sense of humor and you have a quick synopsis.

[Clark]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

I feel much safer knowing car assemblers can’t tie their shoes.

You should, because they are focused on building a safe, quality car for your family.

[Boo]

Originally Posted by Hootiefish

I have to admit, I think Trump is handling his infection well.

I’m glad his handlers were able to talk him into going to the hospital, I’m glad we are getting updates from health personnel. I even thought it was cool for him to acknowledge his supporters outside with the drive-by.

Could’ve done without the blank white paper photo-op, but it was on-brand, if nothing else.

I also appreciate Biden pulling negative ads. Class move.

Hopefully by this time next week both sides can get back to busting one another’s chops.

I thought you were suspended?

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by Clark

You should, because they are focused on building a safe, quality car for your family.

I hope so. Hard to build customer loyalty if they’re all dead.

[Jgil316]

Honestly - the GOP "spin" of Trump having the virus is an absolute insult to the intelligence of the American people........
Disgraceful

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

It's the counterpoint to to traditional VC where capital can be raised from many small investments rather than a few wealthy VC's

$5 million raised by 3,000 small investors can serve a similar function as the $5 million raised through 3 VC's

You realize why in the beginning stages 3000 small investors is not healthy for a company right? If you have 3000 investors there’s no way everyone will agree on the same strategy and that will be the downfall of the company. Too many partners is always a red flag.

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

The Hoots rebellion

If Hoots get the boot he/she can always join the Seneca crew. I think it’s a requirement if you are banned from this thread to join that one.

[Clark]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

I hope so. Hard to build customer loyalty if they’re all dead.

The analogy related to how efficient auto plants are. People aren't dying by getting dragged into the assembly line chains by their shoelaces.

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by Clark

Thanks! Mostly sarcasm with a slap of reality,

Man, you Americans are so polarized. "Clark is all over the place". "It must be a Canadian thing". lol

I consider myself an independent free thinker, who refuses tribal conformity. I'm not conservative or liberal, but prefer to look at an individual situation according to the facts.

Add in a dry, sarcastic sense of humor and you have a quick synopsis.

Lol he's new. I was unsure, which is why I left the question open.

You just reverse-stereotyped, but I agree Americans are polarized.
Light-hearted stereotyping can be funny if everyone's on board.

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by Clark

The analogy related to how efficient auto plants are. People aren't dying by getting dragged into the assembly line chains by their shoelaces.

Aaaand I was referring to the customers dying.

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by mike1498

You realize why in the beginning stages 3000 small investors is not healthy for a company right? If you have 3000 investors there’s no way everyone will agree on the same strategy and that will be the downfall of the company. Too many partners is always a red flag.

They're not functional partners; they're micro financial backers buying into anothers' start-up. Putting $1k toward a $5 million fundraiser doesn't exactly give someone much, if any, sway in the trajectory of a start-up.

To answer the question No I don't see why that would be unhealthy, but open to hearing why you think otherwise.

I'd contend it would have the opposite effect where the company would have more initial free reign to pursue their ideas than if a small contingent of wealthy VC's were wanting their hands in micromanagement.

[Clark]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

Aaaand I was referring to the customers dying.

lol, sorry, that never even crossed my mind, because it is of no concern. Tasks are broken down into minor assembly, that are closely timed. There is no lack of time to complete a task, but there is no time to do anything else.

This applies to all manufacturers. GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc. Also, there are quality checks and balances in place as well.

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by Clark

lol, sorry, that never even crossed my mind, because it is of no concern. Tasks are broken down into minor assembly, that are closely timed. There is no lack of time to complete a task, but there is no time to do anything else.

This applies to all manufacturers. GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc. Also, there are quality checks and balances in place as well.

Sounds like a MNDOT position: no time for doing anything else.

Well, for the one guy working. The other 8 guys watching him work have all sorts of time.

I wonder if they use that time tying their shoes?

[Clark]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

Sounds like a MNDOT position: no time for doing anything else.

Well, for the one guy working. The other 8 guys watching him work have all sorts of time.

I wonder if they use that time tying their shoes?

No, nothing like that. Think everyone working, tied to an assembly line that doesn't stop. And a supervisor running around trying to find the box of widgets that just arrived from another plant and are needed to keep the assembly line moving.

[Alvarez09]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

Micro venture capitalism.

If those at the bottom and middle have more financial freedom to spend and invest, it reduces the necessity to rely solely on the rich for investment in innovation.

It also doesn't just have to be innovative larger projects. It would absolutely give incentive for smaller local businesses in every area to compete with larger corporations because one, people would have more money to start up, and two, people in general would have more buying power to utilize those businesses. I try to support local businesses when I can but sometimes the cost becomes prohibitive. With more spending power on my end I can also afford to spend based on my ideals as well.

Just in general though, people having more spending power can only help businesses at every level in general. I know this will also be controversial, but I feel part of COVID relief should be debt forgivness of some kind on unsecured debt such as CC's, personal loans, and educational loans. It has been proven the best way to jumpstart the economy is to give everyday Americans more spending power, and if all of a sudden a bunch of people don't have 300-500 dollars a month they have to pay towards unsecured debt they had, that for the most part will go back into the economy.

I don't know exactly what the amount large corporations/the mega rich saved with the tax cuts, but I can't imagine for one second that it did more good going to stockholders than it did to regular Joe Americans. I know my tax cut netted me about 600 extra dollars over the course of a year, and on a month to month basis you really don't notice it. It filled up my gas tank twice a month. A ton of people were fooled by the whole thing to be honest. Great, you cleared 80 extra dollars a month....how does that really help you in the long run, and was it worth allowing a 25% tax cut on corporations?

Here are some links:

https://www.americanprogress.org/iss...not-trickling/

https://www.newsweek.com/how-much-di...t-cost-1480670

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/tax...x-plan-n993046

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...65a_story.html

The last one shows that yes, there were increases in investments into companies, but the largest amount spent was on stock buybacks.

This one here shows wage growth in one chart being around 3%. That sounds decent, until you realize inflation was at 2% until this year, and dropped this year due to obvious reasons.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/...12-1028780773#

Again, the idea that giving money to the rich leads to us all benefitting has been proven false again and again.

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

They're not functional partners; they're micro financial backers buying into anothers' start-up. Putting $1k toward a $5 million fundraiser doesn't exactly give someone much, if any, sway in the trajectory of a start-up.

To answer the question No I don't see why that would be unhealthy, but open to hearing why you think otherwise.

I'd contend it would have the opposite effect where the company would have more initial free reign to pursue their ideas than if a small contingent of wealthy VC's were wanting their hands in micromanagement.

Okay for starters, any VC firm will tell you that a high amount of start ups fail. This is not something I think lower income people should be investing in. Obviously they are free to do what they want, but they're better off just buying a lottery ticket. VC firms can handle a bunch of bad eggs because they just need 10-20% of the millions of dollars they invest to be successful. Lower income people can't create a portfolio a venture capitalist can.

Usually startups want something along with capital. 3000 people offering 1k isn't anything more than capital. These people don't offer anything strategic and are just bodies. In the early stages, most successful start ups find a good business partner. Also with all those shares, you still need at least 1-2 big investors. What investor is going to want to get involved in a company that is currently only valued at 1 million but already has 3000 investors? You can't apply the logic of stocks with startups. Stocks work because they are shares of an already established business plan. That doesn't mean they won't fail, it just means they have a better track record.

I'd be curious if you could find me a venture capital book either written by the entrepreneur or the VC that suggests the idea of having 3000 investors in the early stages. It's too much up keep for the current level of the company.