2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP - Page 1884

mike1498 · 10-05-2020, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

It is proven that doesn’t work.

Seriously, why do you guys who aren’t rich spend so much time defending their interests? It would be like me as a pirates fan defending the Yankees being able to spend 3 times as the much on payroll.

You don’t need to be a millionaire to understand economics. Capitalism is based on incentivizes. I’ve already agreed with you that we shouldn’t bail out the rich which is your only sound argument. You don’t understand the concept of money. I don’t care what your income bracket is, you don’t deserve to be bailed out.

coachnip13 · 10-05-2020, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

We had a great back and forth yesterday about this. Then the “don’t take money from the rich” and “I got minez” crowd came in and derailed it.

I will pose this question to try and bring the discussion back. Wealth and income Inequality is obviously a huge issue. What is a fixed if it is in taxes and regulation?

So opposing ideas "derailed" your topic? Interesting.

Your last question makes no sense.

Wade Mulroy · 10-05-2020, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

A lot of the mega rich though did simply get born into it. See them Walton family heirs.

I haven’t seen the specific statistics, so feel free to correct me if I’m wrong - But, is it still true that in America more that 80% of millionaires are first-generation, self-made millionaires?

Regardless of any of our political ideologies, that should be encouraging for everyone. Money is far from the top priority in my life, but it is encouraging knowing that this country affords a vast amount of opportunities for a person to become wealthy.

thenwhatjk · 10-05-2020, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coachnip13

Yep. If I had one dollar for every time I was behind a poor person in a convenience store who was purchasing cigarettes and scratch off tickets, I could retire tomorrow.

I feel like, strictly mathematically speaking, this might be a little bit of an exaggeration

coachnip13 · 10-05-2020, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

See my post alcove this. I want your answer. Relying on individual giving obviously isn’t fixing these problems...unless you don’t think the income/wealth gap is an issue?

I also don't think that social programs are fixing the problems. As Dr. Phil often says, you don't fix money problems with money. Money is given out, yet poor people aren't any better off. You don't fix that with MORE money.

It's the same issue in education. When you put technology and higher salaries into a failing school district, and the schools still fail, the answer isn't MORE MONEY.

coachnip13 · 10-05-2020, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenwhatjk

I feel like, strictly mathematically speaking, this might be a little bit of an exaggeration

Probably so. That hasn't happened 2 or 3 million times.

Alvarez09 · 10-05-2020, 08:36 AM

Still no one can answer. How do you fix stagnating salaries, the wealth gap, and income gap. We’ve tried tax breaks and trickle down and it has redistributed the wealth from the bottom 90% to the top 1%.

coachnip13 · 10-05-2020, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

Still no one can answer.

Including you.

mike1498 · 10-05-2020, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

Still no one can answer. How do you fix stagnating salaries, the wealth gap, and income gap. We’ve tried tax breaks and trickle down and it has redistributed the wealth from the bottom 90% to the top 1%.

Legislation. Make CEOs more performance based with things like stock options. No one is disagreeing their is a problem with that as well. That doesn’t mean just cause the rich have been getting away with it means I should be okay with it.

coachnip13 · 10-05-2020, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike1498

Legislation. Make CEOs more performance based with things like stock options. No one is disagreeing their is a problem with that as well. That doesn’t mean just cause the rich have been getting away with it means I should be okay with it.

While I agree that CEO salaries and bonuses can be outrageous, if we take those away, the money doesn't necessarily go to things like higher wages among the company's unskilled workers.

mike1498 · 10-05-2020, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coachnip13

While I agree that CEO salaries and bonuses can be outrageous, if we take those away, the money doesn't necessarily go to things like higher wages among the company's unskilled workers.

That’s sometimes true. Regardless, if we make it more on performance, their interests will be more align with the company may that mean not cuttings as many hours, investing into equipment, hiring more staff etc.

coachnip13 · 10-05-2020, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike1498

That’s sometimes true. Regardless, if we make it more on performance, their interests will be more align with the company may that mean not cuttings as many hours, investing into equipment, hiring more staff etc.

You mean they can't go on vacations all year while the company is tanking???

Alvarez09 · 10-05-2020, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coachnip13

Including you.

I love the idea of laws capping salaries at a certain amount over what the lowest paid full time employee makes. It is outrageous that the CEO of McDonald’s should make 1000 times what someone in the restaurant makes. I also think you need to find a way to restrict things like stock buybacks as well.

Alvarez09 · 10-05-2020, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coachnip13

You mean they can't go on vacations all year while the company is tanking???

Where did you come up with that?

They certainly shouldn’t be getting bonuses after filing bankruptcy or getting bailouts. If you tank a company as a CEO you shouldn’t get a golden parachute. I’d also offer tax incentives if you meet certain income thresholds for your employees or a certain percentage is met if you invest into the company including wages rather than packing away capital or buying back stocks.

coachnip13 · 10-05-2020, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

Where did you come up with that?

They certainly shouldn’t be getting bonuses after filing bankruptcy or getting bailouts. If you tank a company as a CEO you shouldn’t get a golden parachute. I’d also offer tax incentives if you meet certain income thresholds for your employees or a certain percentage is met if you invest into the company including wages rather than packing away capital or buying back stocks.

Good lord. That was a tongue-in-cheek comment in a discussion I was having with the other poster. Quit trying to fight about everything.

coachnip13 · 10-05-2020, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

I love the idea of laws capping salaries at a certain amount over what the lowest paid full time employee makes. It is outrageous that the CEO of McDonald’s should make 1000 times what someone in the restaurant makes. I also think you need to find a way to restrict things like stock buybacks as well.

Those are some great topics in an economics class, but it doesn't actually help the guy in my town who makes $22,000 a year working for a local mechanic. If you really care about saving the poor, you're not going to solve the problem by focusing on corporations.

Alvarez09 · 10-05-2020, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coachnip13

Those are some great topics in an economics class, but it doesn't actually help the guy in my town who makes $22,000 a year working for a local mechanic. If you really care about saving the poor, you're not going to solve the problem by focusing on corporations.

Ok. Raises in minimum wage then. UBI.

I don’t know exactly what the answer is but what we are doing is not working. We are approaching or already at wealth disparity levels we were at during the industrial revolution which we fought for years to change.

coachnip13 · 10-05-2020, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

It is outrageous that the CEO of McDonald’s should make 1000 times what someone in the restaurant makes.

We disagree there. Literally anyone can do the job of the restaurant worker. It pays minimum wage because that's all the position is worth.

Alvarez09 · 10-05-2020, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coachnip13

We disagree there. Literally anyone can do the job of the restaurant worker. It pays minimum wage because that's all the position is worth.

So? Not everyone has the skill set or ability to get a higher paying job? Literally everyone could work in a coal mine or a steel mill but we fought for higher wages for them.

coachnip13 · 10-05-2020, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

Ok. Raises in minimum wage then. UBI.

Raise the minimum wage: Then you force companies to lay off the minimum wage workers who needed the money to begin with.

UBI: Where is this money coming from? The "mega rich"? If so, then you still don't have an answer and we're back to square one.

What I've noticed, though, is that you're still convinced that it's a money issue.

coachnip13 · 10-05-2020, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

So? Not everyone has the skill set or ability to get a higher paying job? Literally everyone could work in a coal mine or a steel mill but we fought for higher wages for them.

There are dangers in working those jobs. Surely you knew this.

coachnip13 · 10-05-2020, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

Not everyone has the skill set or ability to get a higher paying job.

Amen. We agree on something.

Alvarez09 · 10-05-2020, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coachnip13

Amen. We agree on something.

So, what you’re saying is screw those people? Hey should be relegated to living a life of total poverty and not being able to afford to live?

Again, that makes you a really awful individual if that is the case.

Alvarez09 · 10-05-2020, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coachnip13

Raise the minimum wage: Then you force companies to lay off the minimum wage workers who needed the money to begin with.

UBI: Where is this money coming from? The "mega rich"? If so, then you still don't have an answer and we're back to square one.

What I've noticed, though, is that you're still convinced that it's a money issue.

It isn’t just a money issue. It is a systemic issue involving a lot of different things, but not paying a living wage to someone that works forty hours a week in the richest country in the world is inexcusable.

And yes, it would come from the rich.

coachnip13 · 10-05-2020, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

So, what you’re saying is screw those people? Hey should be relegated to living a life of total poverty and not being able to afford to live?

Again, that makes you a really awful individual if that is the case.

Notice that I haven't made a single comment about you personally. These things never fail to reveal character.

Who said "screw those people"? A person can stay alive on minimum wage. A three bedroom house and an SUV aren't guaranteed rights.

How about this: when you get that paycheck, don't blow it over the weekend. Grind and make sacrifices for a year. Wow, now you can get a nicer apartment. Do it for another year while showing up for work every day. Maybe now you get a dollar-per-hour bump. That's an extra $2,000 in a year. Save a little more. One day you're an assistant manager, because you've been a loyal, hard-working employee.

I'll sit back and listen to why this is so ridiculous and why I should just send my money to them instead.

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10-05-2020, 08:36 AM	#47082
Alvarez09 Banned Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 967 mrsportscards85	Still no one can answer. How do you fix stagnating salaries, the wealth gap, and income gap. We’ve tried tax breaks and trickle down and it has redistributed the wealth from the bottom 90% to the top 1%.