2025 Baseball Hall of Fame

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by JRX

What is the cutoff for playing time exactly? He's played fewer games than Mattingly.

Mattingly is going to make it too.

For Pedroia all it will take is waiting for Terry Francona to get in. Once he and Ortiz are on a committee, Pedroia will sail in.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Why wouldn't I be confident? I literally watched him live talking to the reporters about being informed he failed the test. He admitted to being told by the Players Association he failed it and the article literally references that he said he did. He also said he had no idea why he failed it but would get to the bottom of it and report back. His having failed it has never been in question. The only thing in question is the fact he denies taking anything and Manfred retroactively calling the test results in question when asked about Ortiz.

Hmm… your standards for “admission of guilt” are different from mine.

I view “acknowledging that he was told he failed a test”, and “admitting to taking steroids” as different things.

It’s fine. We’re not going to end this debate once and for all here. It’s been going on for a long time and will continue to do so.

[ottobord]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Everyone borderline is going to get in eventually.....that's the way it's been for pretty much the last 20 years.....

Sure, even players below border line like Dustin Pedroia will get it in, I'm sure we'll have a lengthy write out to justify it, I'll take the scolding now for protesting it.

[Handsome Wes]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

If not Beltran, Altuve may be the next guy to face some sort of official cheating issue and be elected.

And Aaron Judge but you guys aren't ready for that conversation

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by Handsome Wes

And Aaron Judge but you guys aren't ready for that conversation

What did Judge do?

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

Hmm… your standards for “admission of guilt” are different from mine.

I view “acknowledging that he was told he failed a test”, and “admitting to taking steroids” as different things.

It’s fine. We’re not going to end this debate once and for all here. It’s been going on for a long time and will continue to do so.

I never said he admitted to taking steroids. I only ever said he admitted to failing the test.

[ottobord]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

What did Judge do?

Really big, strong and good. Guilty.

[Handsome Wes]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

What did Judge do?

When Beltran arrived (in Houston), he was the one who told the team "you guys are behind the times when it comes to sign-stealing."

Beltran had been on the Yankees, presumably where he learned the tricks of the trade.

The New York Yankees were later fined by the commissioner's office for cheating. Aaron Judge was a part of that Yankees team.

(This also applies to the Red Sox and Mookie Betts).

It was the Yankees (and Red Sox)'s cheating that led to Manfred's 2017 memo telling teams not to steal signs electronically. This is the directive that the Astros ignored en route to their World Championship.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

I never said he admitted to taking steroids. I only ever said he admitted to failing the test.

*Throws red challenge flag*

*Waits for word from the replay officials*

*Replay shows on Jumbotron*

Originally Posted by Skipscards

He 100% admitted to failing the test.

Skip is correct.

*Call on the field is overturned*

[rms13]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Agreed. Though Pedroia does have the makings of a classic Veterans Committee selection. Though he is nothing like Posey because he wasn't a catcher. The bar is a lot different for catchers.

I don't think the bar is that high for second baseman. If you go by JAWS , Pedroia is 19 all time for second baseman. The non HOF ahead of him are Cano, Grich, Utley, Whittaker and Randolph. Pedroia played significantly less games then everyone above him except Jackie Robinson and Joe Gordon. Pedroia has the most hits of those three by about 300, he has the most doubles by a lot, one HR less then Robinson. Robinson is clearly better but most of his counting stats and metrics are comparable to Gordon. For comparison Posey is 14 in JAWS for catcher

[ottobord]

Originally Posted by Handsome Wes

When Beltran arrived (in Houston), he was the one who told the team "you guys are behind the times when it comes to sign-stealing."

Beltran had been on the Yankees, presumably where he learned the tricks of the trade.

The New York Yankees were later fined by the commissioner's office for cheating. Aaron Judge was a part of that Yankees team.

(This also applies to the Red Sox and Mookie Betts).

It was the Yankees (and Red Sox)'s cheating that led to Manfred's 2017 memo telling teams not to steal signs electronically. This is the directive that the Astros ignored en route to their World Championship.

Judge came up the final month 2016, evidence has Yankees sign stealing the first half of 2016.

[hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by Handsome Wes

And Aaron Judge but you guys aren't ready for that conversation

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by rms13

I don't think the bar is that high for second baseman. If you go by JAWS , Pedroia is 19 all time for second baseman. The non HOF ahead of him are Cano, Grich, Utley, Whittaker and Randolph. Pedroia played significantly less games then everyone above him except Jackie Robinson and Joe Gordon. Pedroia has the most hits of those three by about 300, he has the most doubles by a lot, one HR less then Robinson. Robinson is clearly better but most of his counting stats and metrics are comparable to Gordon. For comparison Posey is 14 in JAWS for catcher

*than

I don't go by JAWS. But, the bar is plenty high for 2nd basemen. If the bar wasn't high, Kent and Whitaker would already be in and Whitaker, Grich and Randolph would have lasted more than a single ballot.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

*than

I don't go by JAWS. But, the bar is plenty high for 2nd basemen. If the bar wasn't high, Kent and Whitaker would already be in and Whitaker, Grich and Randolph would have lasted more than a single ballot.

Yeah how the hell do you put pedroia in but not kent? Pedroia is 30th in fwar for second basemen.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

*Throws red challenge flag*

*Waits for word from the replay officials*

*Replay shows on Jumbotron*



Skip is correct.

*Call on the field is overturned*

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by JRX

Yeah how the hell do you put pedroia in but not kent? Pedroia is 30th in fwar for second basemen.

I don't use fwar either, but I completely agree. Kent should have sailed in with the BBWAA.

[ThoseBackPages]

at this point being a nice guy can get you in

[ThoseBackPages]

Joey Belle is not a nice guy ..... he's out

Jeff Cant is not a nice guy ..... he's out

[Handsome Wes]

Originally Posted by ottobord

Judge came up the final month 2016, evidence has Yankees sign stealing the first half of 2016.

Was it just the first months of 2016?

Well, I won't contest that. But I will then double down on my Mookie Betts comment.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

Joey Belle is not a nice guy ..... he's out

Jeff Cant is not a nice guy ..... he's out

Too many writers are treating the hof like they're creating a club of guys they want to hang out with.

[ottobord]

Originally Posted by Handsome Wes

Was it just the first months of 2016?

Well, I won't contest that. But I will then double down on my Mookie Betts comment.

Yep, and even if it was happening when Judge is up, you have Judge at 27 games and the Yankees were using 2nd base runners to relay stolen signs. So probably rare the Judge had those opportunities. Anyway what Houston did is much more egregious.

[JimEd14]

Originally Posted by JRX

Look up players ages 36+ seasons, add in the "failed" test, playing with super roid users, there's a ton of smoke with Ortiz.

But, there are 13 years of testing (04-16), and he never tested positive.

Did he have some sort of PED flashback that made him illegally good a decade after 2003?

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by JRX

Too many writers are treating the hof like they're creating a club of guys they want to hang out with.

agreed

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by JRX

His stats are evidence enough. Nobody outside of Bonds hit that well at those ages especially after it looked like he was washed up.

Remember when he came out and said he is tested more often than anyone else and MLB admitted that they only test people more if they are suspected or have something suspicious in other tests? No way they were going to suspend Big Papi.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by JimEd14

But, there are 13 years of testing (04-16), and he never tested positive.

Did he have some sort of PED flashback that made him illegally good a decade after 2003?

A-Rod never tested positive either the second time around when he was caught up in the Balco investigation and suspended.