WWE Discussion thread- Raw/SD/PPV

[packman80]

Originally Posted by jlzinck

Helen Keller saw this coming.....Cena has always done what was asked of him.

I was shocked. Did Cena even not say in the past it made no sense for him to turn heel because of how his character works?

[Cracktoast]

Originally Posted by packman80

So was Sami Zayn legit beat up going into the match and needed some time off heal up or is he just getting some R&R time with the family? Figure with the beating he took they keep him off TV thru WM and bring him back after that? He does not need to be part of the KO and Orton feud.

I have read a couple places but can't remember where that Sami has been in negotiations to move into a backstage producer type role. That said I'm sure he will still wrestle if the angle/story is right but as a full time every week talent I think he's close to being done.

[packman80]

Bigger heel turn

Hulk Hogan or John Cena?

[RedLabelRecords]

I love how everyone all of a sudden says they saw the Cena heel turn coming. I read these boards and NO ONE saw that coming.

[ThatGuyPal]

Originally Posted by RedLabelRecords

I love how everyone all of a sudden says they saw the Cena heel turn coming. I read these boards and NO ONE saw that coming.

Yeah 99% are saying this after the fact but I literally said before the event Corporate Cena is coming so some of us did.


People were looking too much into "OMG CENA THE KIDS HE CANT!" than this is what makes most logical sense when people want wrestling to make sense lol Punk/Cody no one else made sense like that.

[packman80]

So Drew and Priest seemed locked into a match at WM. It's a throw away match for both. After WM would do you maybe have Drew vs LA Knight who probably wins the US title?

[ThatGuyPal]

Originally Posted by packman80

Bigger heel turn

Hulk Hogan or John Cena?

Hogan by far, a lot of people actually didn't know he had ever been heel before that due to lack of internet where as we all know Dr Thuganomics heel cena. Impact is also bigger as it was the star from a rival-company, to a much smaller scale Cena would of had to do that in AEW and lead it to AEW starting to beat WWE in ratings. You also have way more cynical fans now who always think theres a "swerve" or say after they saw it coming lol back then no one knew "sting or hogan were the options" that garbage thrown was real emotion. I also think it's bigger as Hogan was in the midst of a full-time run not on his way out the door, still huge but there are multiple times Cena's heel turn coulda been bigger.

I'd put Austin's above Cena's tbh, not in a shocked he'd turn bad way but seeing him and Vince shake hands is a bigger moment than them standing over Cody to me

[ThatGuyPal]

Originally Posted by packman80

So Drew and Priest seemed locked into a match at WM. It's a throw away match for both. After WM would do you maybe have Drew vs LA Knight who probably wins the US title?

Prob AJ Styles-like roles where they are credible champion contenders, I think Jey and Cena win so Drew new heel challenger for Jey with history and Priest new face challenger for Cena. Two credible names they can beat.

[cdub6238]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

Rock is saying in the press conference it was longterm storytelling and mentioned how he got a lot of criticism initially for it.

Also, again. Dirt sheets were wrong saying he wouldn't be around for Mania and his appearance at Bad Blood was going to lead to nothing.

Your obsession with the dirt sheets is...odd

I don't think people take it as absolute truth, but I use them as a "guide"...and they have generally been right more times than wrong..so your stance is again..odd

When the Rock came back...they reported it was very last minute and changes had to be made, and that nobody knew if he would be around for WM or not and that plans had been set for Cody/Cena and a triple threat with Seth/Roman/Punk for months..

Well..we are still getting those matches..maybe a change to the 3man, but don't know where else Roman fits since Seth took him out...unless they shift to just Seth/Roman and Punk/Paul

And there were cuts that had to be made to the SD he showed up at..

So what exactly are they so hahaha ha their always sooo wrong...about? I don't get it

Were they also wrong after RR with Drew being pissed at LA Knight (rightfully or not) that led to a promo where LA referenced everything? Or was that just..coincidence and them "working the dirt sheets" too..

[jlzinck]

Originally Posted by packman80

I was shocked. Did Cena even not say in the past it made no sense for him to turn heel because of how his character works?

If I had to guess he will turn again.

Win at WM and then turn on the Corporate Rock before retiring.

[thenightman]

I'm not entirely sold on the heel turn. It feels a lot like a quick pop move. I'll sit back and watch, but let's see where this is at 3 months from now. A lot are saying he's gonna leave a heel at the end of the year, but I'm not buying that.

[Jericho]

I think most ppl saw the heel turn from Cena coming after he stayed in the ring when Cody came out. At least my buddies and I did, Plus Cena was being way too animated.
I for one am not looking forward to this, if it was 10 yrs earlier or something then maybe, but now we're going to get just another Authority angle. I just hope Cena comes to Mania and is motivated, because when he wrestled Theory you could tell Cena was just phoning it in and it hurt the match greatly.

Not sure what you do with Punk now. Another Punk/Rollins match isnt really all that enticing. And a Roman/Rollins/Punk match just seems kind of Meh. Punk/Roman or Rollins/Roman makes much more sense.

I really hope they can fill the undercard with really good matches because Jey/Gunther and Cody/Cena aren't the greatest of matches. I guess Drew/Priest and AJ/Bron or AJ/Bron/Finn. Nakamura/Knight (Are they saving that Mania?) Some kind of 3 or 4 way for the SD tag titles. Solo/Jacob? and then Bianca/Rhea, Charlotte/Tiffany, and whatever they come up with for the mid card women titles. It could be a rough Mania.

[ThatGuyPal]

Cena turning is the equivalent of modern day superteams, eventually you realize history remembers the winners and championships not how you got there once it's out of recent memory.

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by jlzinck

Helen Keller saw this coming.....Cena has always done what was asked of him.

Amy Schumer did say he put it in her

[packman80]

I wonder if someone printed this out and wanted them all to sign it if Cody would since he's under Cena's boot in this pic.

[packman80]

Originally Posted by jlzinck

If I had to guess he will turn again.

Win at WM and then turn on the Corporate Rock before retiring.

Yes I think Rock vs Cena in December is going to be John's last match. That would be a huge match to have for his last match. Or you do Cena doing the job to Cody in December as the final passing of the torch that now Cody is the new Cena and the face of the company.

[mossoholic]

Originally Posted by packman80

Bigger heel turn

Hulk Hogan or John Cena?

Is this a joke? Hogan actually meant something big for the business. Completely changed it. Hogan wrestled for countless years after. Cena is going to be gone in 9 months.

What was the point of Cena turning? Cena has the money, the movie career, the fame, the wrestling career, the title wins, and already had the Mania title match won without Rock's help. I guess Im in the vast minority but I have no clue why everyone loves the Cena heel turn. It's 8-10 years too late. The only way it makes sense is if he claims he was being forced to have a retirement tour and The Rock is going to let Cena end the tour and wrestle whenever he wants and for as many years as he wants. Otherwise, how does it make any sense?

People are comparing this to The Rock last year too. There is no comparison. Rock had been heel several times. They only changed course because of the fan reaction to The Rock. Babyface Rock would have been against Roman Reigns if everyone didn't push back. Final Boss never would have happened and Rock would be a face right now still.

Cena turning for no real reason would be the NBA equivalent of if during his last season Kobe Bryant said he hated the Lakers and all their fans and demanded to be traded to Boston. Got traded to Boston and won a title. Said he is a Celtic forever and screw LA and every other franchise and fan. You know something that makes no sense and would never happen.

Instead of having that lasting image of Kobe's final game you get the Boston Celtics Kobe. What's going to be the lasting image now of Cena winning 17? For years it was let's go Cena, Cena sucks. Now everyone is cheering Cena. You're going to change that for what? People don't want to boo him now. I'm someone that hated Cena for a long time. Grew to respect him over the years and thought he had a bunch of great matches later on. I was actually cheering for him now. Hogan turned for several reasons but one was all the boos. There have been no boos for Cena recently. 100% universal cheers and fan support. Makes no sense. What can Rock give Cena that Cena doesn't have or can't get on his own?

Punk or Drew doing this would have made perfect sense.

[packman80]

Originally Posted by mossoholic

Is this a joke? Hogan actually meant something big for the business. Completely changed it. Hogan wrestled for countless years after. Cena is going to be gone in 9 months.

What was the point of Cena turning? Cena has the money, the movie career, the fame, the wrestling career, the title wins, and already had the Mania title match won without Rock's help. I guess Im in the vast minority but I have no clue why everyone loves the Cena heel turn. It's 8-10 years too late. The only way it makes sense is if he claims he was being forced to have a retirement tour and The Rock is going to let Cena end the tour and wrestle whenever he wants and for as many years as he wants. Otherwise, how does it make any sense?

People are comparing this to The Rock last year too. There is no comparison. Rock had been heel several times. They only changed course because of the fan reaction to The Rock. Babyface Rock would have been against Roman Reigns if everyone didn't push back. Final Boss never would have happened and Rock would be a face right now still.

Cena turning for no real reason would be the NBA equivalent of if during his last season Kobe Bryant said he hated the Lakers and all their fans and demanded to be traded to Boston. Got traded to Boston and won a title. Said he is a Celtic forever and screw LA and every other franchise and fan. You know something that makes no sense and would never happen.

Instead of having that lasting image of Kobe's final game you get the Boston Celtics Kobe. What's going to be the lasting image now of Cena winning 17? For years it was let's go Cena, Cena sucks. Now everyone is cheering Cena. You're going to change that for what? People don't want to boo him now. I'm someone that hated Cena for a long time. Grew to respect him over the years and thought he had a bunch of great matches later on. I was actually cheering for him now. Hogan turned for several reasons but one was all the boos. There have been no boos for Cena recently. 100% universal cheers and fan support. Makes no sense. What can Rock give Cena that Cena doesn't have or can't get on his own?

Punk or Drew doing this would have made perfect sense.

I think Cena ok'd this move because he is calling it quits. He has not had the chance to be the heel in over 20 years so he probably wants to play that end one last time. Plenty of time for him to turn again and go out John Cena the hero to all little kids.

[Cracktoast]

Originally Posted by thenightman

I'm not entirely sold on the heel turn. It feels a lot like a quick pop move. I'll sit back and watch, but let's see where this is at 3 months from now. A lot are saying he's gonna leave a heel at the end of the year, but I'm not buying that.

Even Rock said at the presser that he let the crowds reaction to Cody turning him down dictate what the next move would be. Now obviously they had a plan to go both ways but it shows that they have smartened up instead of only having one option and you like it or don't like it. He learned that from last year where they had to do the emergency Rock heel turn after the fans went crazy mad over him replacing Cody against Roman.

But yeah no way Cena leaves as a heel

[packman80]

So unless they pivot things guess likely story is John wins the title at WM and Punk becomes #1 contender and wins the title at SummerSlam? Gives John few months to turn back a face to end it all.

[mossoholic]

Originally Posted by packman80

So unless they pivot things guess likely story is John wins the title at WM and Punk becomes #1 contender and wins the title at SummerSlam? Gives John few months to turn back a face to end it all.

Which again makes no sense. Everything with Punk is about the Mania main event. He would do anything to get it. Makes perfect sense Punk would take the Rock's offer. Cena beats Corporate Punk at SummerSlam to win 17. Going the opposite route is ridiculous. This is from someone who would ran see Punk beat Cena. That's one of the only matches I would pay big money to see. Punk vs Cena at Money in the bank is one of my all time favorite matches and biggest regrets not going to.

Realistically, what could happen to get Cena back to a face in this short of time period? People want to compare it to Hogan at Bash at the Beach. Can you imagine how absolutely stupid that would have been if Hogan turned back in less than 9 months?

[packman80]

Originally Posted by mossoholic

Which again makes no sense. Everything with Punk is about the Mania main event. He would do anything to get it. Makes perfect sense Punk would take the Rock's offer. Cena beats Corporate Punk at SummerSlam to win 17. Going the opposite route is ridiculous. This is from someone who would ran see Punk beat Cena. That's one of the only matches I would pay big money to see. Punk vs Cena at Money in the bank is one of my all time favorite matches and biggest regrets not going to.

Realistically, what could happen to get Cena back to a face in this short of time period? People want to compare it to Hogan at Bash at the Beach. Can you imagine how absolutely stupid that would have been if Hogan turned back in less than 9 months?

Easy to turn Cena back Rock just starts acting like he owns Cena and instead of of them working together it's more like the Rock treating Cena like someone he owns.

[mossoholic]

Originally Posted by packman80

Easy to turn Cena back Rock just starts acting like he owns Cena and instead of of them working together it's more like the Rock treating Cena like someone he owns.

I don't think people will buy it in such a short period of time. Cena is only going to be there for somewhere around 25-30 dates at the most. It's only going to be the rest of this year. But what do I know. The few people around me last night all felt the same way as I did. But I realize Im in the vast minority on this. At least I don't have to worry about wasting a ton of money and time to go to WrestleMania this year. I think this stuff with Cena only happened because The Rock doesn't want to wrestle. It should be The Rock vs Cody. I hope if 1 of the 3 matches I would travel and pay big money to see happens it's an arena show in the US. Stadium shows, especially football stadium shows, absolutely suck from a live event experience.

[packman80]

Originally Posted by mossoholic

I don't think people will buy it in such a short period of time. Cena is only going to be there for somewhere around 25-30 dates at the most. It's only going to be the rest of this year. But what do I know. The few people around me last night all felt the same way as I did. But I realize Im in the vast minority on this. At least I don't have to worry about wasting a ton of money and time to go to WrestleMania this year. I think this stuff with Cena only happened because The Rock doesn't want to wrestle. It should be The Rock vs Cody. I hope if 1 of the 3 matches I would travel and pay big money to see happens it's an arena show in the US. Stadium shows, especially football stadium shows, absolutely suck from a live event experience.

Once Cena announced this was it for him this was likely always him going to end up in the WM main event for possibly the biggest star in the WWE ever. Rock is not retiring and if they want to they could always do Cody vs Rock at a later time.

[mossoholic]

Originally Posted by packman80

Once Cena announced this was it for him this was likely always him going to end up in the WM main event for possibly the biggest star in the WWE ever. Rock is not retiring and if they want to they could always do Cody vs Rock at a later time.

Not retiring from in ring wrestling? The Rock has had 1 match in 10+ years and it was a tag match. He's 52 years old. Most people will tell you The Rock came back to have that 1 match because his Hollywood career was in a bad spot. That has clearly changed in the last year. When's The Rock going to have this Cody match? If The Netflix debut with their biggest audience in countless years and WrestleMania 41 in Vegas aren't big enough what is big enough? What WrestleMania 50 when he is in his 60s and 20+ years removed from his last singles match?

Cena could have still been in the main event without this. They planted seeds of Cody turning the last few months. Have Cody turn and have Cody vs Cena. Or have face vs face. Or have Cena vs Gunther.