Yordan Alvarez

[ninjacookies]

Astros fleeced that signing.

Yordan is a beast.

[rwperu34]

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

Apparently if he batted .200, drew walks and Kd a lot along with great defense he’s be in line for the HOF ala Joey Gallo (the thread here is laughable). Yordan is one of the best overall hitters in the last few years to come up but because he’s an Astro he gets lumped in with the other cheaters.


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Gallo bashing is a little out of place in a Yordan thread, but I'm going to respond because you comment is nuts.

The original statement that he's referring to, for those who haven't followed, is Joey Gallo is still live for the HOF.

That is absolutely true. While it might be 1 in 50 players or 1 in 100 that have a career path that Gallo would have to follow, that is greater than zero. It is enough for me to call him "live". There are a lot of players that have been a lot better than Gallo that literally have a 0% chance to make the HOF.

Now, to address the silliness of brining it into the Yordan thread. Your statement implies that I believe Gallo to be a better hitter or player or hobby investment or I prefer that type of skillset or whatever. That is false on all accounts. To wit;

My preseason secret sauce had Gallo at #60, Yordan at #5.

I had Gallo projected for a few more HR at the start of the year, so more likely to engage in a homerun chase this year, but Yordan is on the list. And he's three years younger, so if anybody had ever asked I'd say he's more likely at some point in his career.

The Gallo problem is not me, it is you (and your cohorts in the other thread). You simply overestimate how highly I rate Gallo. He's a good player with a lot of realized power and a lot of HR upside. That was not an unreasonable statement at the start of the year and it's not unreasonable now. The chasm stems from a number of things, the two most important being;

1) You can't wrap your arms around the fact that a guy that barely hits .200 and whiff 3/8 of the time can be a good player and

2) I allude to Gallo all the time. This is twofold. From the hobby perspective I've got a huge stash and from a player perspective he is currently the poster child for three true outcome players.

Now to completely highlight the silliness of your statement. This offseason the price difference between Yordan and Gallo was >6x, yet I still purchased some Yordan. Within the last week I bought a PSA 10 BCA of each and paid nearly 10x for Yordan. My money is literally where my mouth is.

To sum up: I have a good gauge of Yordan's talent. I have a good gauge of Gallo's talent. If is you and your cohorts from the Gallo thread that have the problem assessing talent. This is because of your misconceived notions of what makes a player good run producer.

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Astros fleeced that signing.

Yordan is a beast.

How do you say no to hundreds of millions of dollars? In less than 30 days he'll be a multi-millionaire(signing bonus) once MLB approves the deal. His recent performance is that of a happy young man. On top of that, the team that has taken care of him with the other Cuban players they have surrounded him with. He's living the dream and he will still be in his prime when he signs a new deal.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

How do you say no to hundreds of millions of dollars? In less than 30 days he'll be a multi-millionaire(signing bonus) once MLB approves the deal. His recent performance is that of a happy young man. On top of that, the team that has taken care of him with the other Cuban players they have surrounded him with. He's living the dream and he will still be in his prime when he signs a new deal.

Can never complain, for sure. Just stating that he probably could have made significantly more. But it's just semantics at this point. That's generational wealth regardless.

[regularp]

Originally Posted by rwperu34

I think you answered the original question with your reply. There are no MI that hit like Yordan, yet there are plenty that get paid more. Imagine if Correa (.844 OPS, 127 OPS+ previous three years at time of contract) hit like Yordan (.956, 157).

But he doesn't and never will; that's the issue. These guys get ridiculous contracts (Lindor, Seager, Rendon although he raked for a few years prior, Semien, Hayward, Baez, Story) because they play "premium" positions.

There are very few guys who rake year after year. I don't know why that's been devalued in the last decade.

Who are the most impactful players since 2000? Bonds, Pujols, Cabrera, Ramirez, Ortiz, Trout, A-Rod and Ichiro; probably add Vlad Sr., Mookie and Goldschmidt as well.

[rwperu34]

Originally Posted by regularp

But he doesn't and never will; that's the issue. These guys get ridiculous contracts (Lindor, Seager, Rendon although he raked for a few years prior, Semien, Hayward, Baez, Story) because they play "premium" positions.

There are very few guys who rake year after year. I don't know why that's been devalued in the last decade.

Who are the most impactful players since 2000? Bonds, Pujols, Cabrera, Ramirez, Ortiz, Trout, A-Rod and Ichiro; probably add Vlad Sr., Mookie and Goldschmidt as well.

The positional premium is just another way of saying "defense".

I don't know how you can say raking has been devalued. Every single one of those guys on your list was among the most well compensated players of his time. At least three of them were literally the biggest contract ever at the time of signing. If you apply a discount rate A-Rod is probably still the highest paid player ever.

[regularp]

Originally Posted by rwperu34

The positional premium is just another way of saying "defense".

I don't know how you can say raking has been devalued. Every single one of those guys on your list was among the most well compensated players of his time. At least three of them were literally the biggest contract ever at the time of signing. If you apply a discount rate A-Rod is probably still the highest paid player ever.

Yes, back then those guys were compensated. Now, the emphasis has been foolishly placed on defense and a lot of terrible contracts have followed. Thank you for proving my point.

[rwperu34]

Originally Posted by regularp

Yes, back then those guys were compensated. Now, the emphasis has been foolishly placed on defense and a lot of terrible contracts have followed. Thank you for proving my point.

Back then? You mean way back when Mike Trout, Mookie Betts, and Bryce Harper were at the top of their game?

[regularp]

Originally Posted by rwperu34

Back then? You mean way back when Mike Trout, Mookie Betts, and Bryce Harper were at the top of their game?

Those three all rake. Mookie's career OPS is almost .900; Harper's is .919 and Trout is 1.000. How do those three relate to Correa, Seager, Semien, Baez, Lindor, Heyward, Story, Andrus, Buxton, etc.?

[rwperu34]

Originally Posted by regularp

But he doesn't and never will; that's the issue. These guys get ridiculous contracts (Lindor, Seager, Rendon although he raked for a few years prior, Semien, Hayward, Baez, Story) because they play "premium" positions.

There are very few guys who rake year after year. I don't know why that's been devalued in the last decade.

Who are the most impactful players since 2000? Bonds, Pujols, Cabrera, Ramirez, Ortiz, Trout, A-Rod and Ichiro; probably add Vlad Sr., Mookie and Goldschmidt as well.

Originally Posted by regularp

Those three all rake. Mookie's career OPS is almost .900; Harper's is .919 and Trout is 1.000. How do those three relate to Correa, Seager, Semien, Baez, Lindor, Heyward, Story, Andrus, Buxton, etc.?

I guess I need to remind you what you actually said. Guys who rake year after year have not been devalued.

Trout, Mookie, and Harper literally have signed 3 of the biggest contracts in history. And yes, Mookie is getting paid well for his defense, becasuse his offense is well behind Trout and Harper.

Seager joins them with his OPS+ of 3 points less than Mookie at the time he signed. The two prevoius years when they played on the same team Seager's OPS was 48 points higher. He's a stud, both offensively and defensively. Worth every penny.

Correa has the AAV, but he only got three years with the opt out. He will join the big guys next year with the possibility of signing the biggest contract ever. His offense is only a little behind Mookie and Seager, but his defense is ahead of them. That's why it will be close.

Semien (7/175), Story (6/140), and Baez (6/140) signed for less than half of the boppers. Buxton (7/100) and Andrus (8/120) got one third! Those contracts are not even in the same universe. Heyward (8/184) is a little closer, but we're still talking $150,000,000 less than Harper and $240,000,000 less than Trout.

So your defense first big contract is pretty much Lindor (10/341). He is an elite defender, possibly the best in the game. It's not like he's some slouch offensively. His OPS+ was 118 when he signed.

FWIW, paying for defense is not a new thing. Ozzie Smith had the highest salary in the game at one point. When he signed his deal it was one of the biggest ever, if not the biggest. I remember when Kirby Puckett signed the biggest deal ever...for an OPS+ of 122 for his career and 120 over the previous two seasons. The reason he broke the record was his gold glove. That and he signed last.

It is always offense plus defense that gets paid. In most cases the best players in the game are the best hitters...but not always.

[jhssketchcards]

Originally Posted by rwperu34

Gallo bashing is a little out of place in a Yordan thread, but I'm going to respond because you comment is nuts.

The original statement that he's referring to, for those who haven't followed, is Joey Gallo is still live for the HOF.

That is absolutely true. While it might be 1 in 50 players or 1 in 100 that have a career path that Gallo would have to follow, that is greater than zero. It is enough for me to call him "live". There are a lot of players that have been a lot better than Gallo that literally have a 0% chance to make the HOF.

Now, to address the silliness of brining it into the Yordan thread. Your statement implies that I believe Gallo to be a better hitter or player or hobby investment or I prefer that type of skillset or whatever. That is false on all accounts. To wit;

My preseason secret sauce had Gallo at #60, Yordan at #5.

I had Gallo projected for a few more HR at the start of the year, so more likely to engage in a homerun chase this year, but Yordan is on the list. And he's three years younger, so if anybody had ever asked I'd say he's more likely at some point in his career.

The Gallo problem is not me, it is you (and your cohorts in the other thread). You simply overestimate how highly I rate Gallo. He's a good player with a lot of realized power and a lot of HR upside. That was not an unreasonable statement at the start of the year and it's not unreasonable now. The chasm stems from a number of things, the two most important being;

1) You can't wrap your arms around the fact that a guy that barely hits .200 and whiff 3/8 of the time can be a good player and

2) I allude to Gallo all the time. This is twofold. From the hobby perspective I've got a huge stash and from a player perspective he is currently the poster child for three true outcome players.

Now to completely highlight the silliness of your statement. This offseason the price difference between Yordan and Gallo was >6x, yet I still purchased some Yordan. Within the last week I bought a PSA 10 BCA of each and paid nearly 10x for Yordan. My money is literally where my mouth is.

To sum up: I have a good gauge of Yordan's talent. I have a good gauge of Gallo's talent. If is you and your cohorts from the Gallo thread that have the problem assessing talent. This is because of your misconceived notions of what makes a player good run producer.

My point of using Gallo in this thread is to show how silly metrics have become in evaluating how good/great a player is and how that translates to the hobby. Thanks for stepping in and trying to assert your secret sauce on telling people what is out of place in a thread. Have a great day


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[SGC300ier]

I haven't been watching the market, but I assume his stuff is still really cheap?

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[BBases31]

Originally Posted by SGC300ier

I haven't been watching the market, but I assume his stuff is still really cheap?

Of course it is. PSA 10 Topps rookies for 20 bucks lol

[clocsta2323]

Originally Posted by BBases31

Of course it is. PSA 10 Topps rookies for 20 bucks lol

Bichette is at ~$15 now. It's just where we are now with base RCs. No one should be grading top paper RCs, period. Even base chrome is a loser. That includes Wander, will absolutely include J-Rod and (fill in the blank).

[tyrith]

Yeah, I wouldn't look at 2020 base card slabs as being indicative of anything. The number of cards that were submitted is highly idiosyncratic because of the circumstances. And the lesson has probably been learned about those for future years.

[BGeezy]

I'm usually a stickler for clean autos, but this patch and /5 made it too hard to pass up for the price. That's 3/8 Yordan Dynasty variations, five more to go...

[LittleJimmies]

Man, our dude is on fire!

[Bambino22]

This is getting ridiculous. Like BGeezy's Yordan collection!

[BGeezy]

Originally Posted by Bambino22

This is getting ridiculous. Like BGeezy's Yordan collection!

I can only hope to achieve your collection's level of insanity.

Speaking of insane, Yordan’s crazy tear lately has been fun to watch!

[noaskiecards]

3 for 4
Should be 3 for 3 with a walk, 4th ball called a strike outside

If he can pull it together and win a triple crown, mvp, and ws mvp he might get to 25 percent of tatis prices.

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[PLAYED4NOTHING]

Originally Posted by noaskiecards

3 for 4
Should be 3 for 3 with a walk, 4th ball called a strike outside

If he can pull it together and win a triple crown, mvp, and ws mvp he might get to 25 percent of tatis prices.

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It’s possible hahahahaha !!!

[DiegsHobby]

Do we think there's room for his Flagship #276 RC to seriously grow?

Even with the high pop, I would think it can settle somewhere between the $20 or so it goes for now and the ~$90 or so that Acuna/Tatis/Soto get for theirs.

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[regularp]

Originally Posted by DiegsHobby

Do we think there's room for his Flagship #276 RC to seriously grow?

Even with the high pop, I would think it can settle somewhere between the $20 or so it goes for now and the ~$90 or so that Acuna/Tatis/Soto get for theirs.

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Stick to the parallels.

[clocsta2323]

Originally Posted by DiegsHobby

Do we think there's room for his Flagship #276 RC to seriously grow?

Even with the high pop, I would think it can settle somewhere between the $20 or so it goes for now and the ~$90 or so that Acuna/Tatis/Soto get for theirs.

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Never gonna happen.

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by DiegsHobby

Do we think there's room for his Flagship #276 RC to seriously grow?

Even with the high pop, I would think it can settle somewhere between the $20 or so it goes for now and the ~$90 or so that Acuna/Tatis/Soto get for theirs.

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PC purchase, sure, grab one but as mentioned, keep to low numbered parallels or autos.