movies_n_more777 Fake Slabs & Deactivtions

[anusinha]

Originally Posted by StateEx

This is great detective work. Your posts are "must reads." Three observations:

1. I'm surprised he's had such good luck cracking cases. I have yet to manage it without having the slab crack.

2. I think both PSA and eBay have an obligation to adapt to prevent this sort of scam, whether it's by preventing the AG logo from appearing on lots or something else, because....

3. Better fakes hurt the whole hobby. It sucks that people have to ruin everything.

The fake slabs dont look frosted on the edges, they must be custom made replica slabs that look identical to PSA.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by Sonnys88

In these scenarios, eBay / PSA does include an insert with the shipment that the item(s) were NOT Authenticated as they were mis-categorized. A buyer has the option to return the lot for a full refund up to 3 days after receiving the unauthenticated item.

This is exactly why the eBay authentication program exists and why I am 100% for it. There are more fake / counterfeit slabs out there than you can imagine. And there are obviously many buyers who can't tell the difference between an authentic slab and a fake one.

eBay is damned if they do and damned if they don't when it comes to trying to help police transactions. A lot of that stems from buyers and sellers not comprehending exactly how the authentication program works.

In that scenario, eBay is putting the responsibility on buyers instead of authenticating the cards or voiding the sale like they should.

[Sonnys88]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

They are not damned if they void the sale on the basis of the seller intentionally circumventing the program, and misleading the buyer.

eBay will never do that because that would be more sales they are voiding, and less revenue for them.

Then you're also asking eBay to determine if a seller is intentionally trying to circumvent the program by listing a "lot" as a "single". What would be the guidelines for that determination? Many sellers accidentally list "lots" of cards under the "trading Card Singles" category. Many are still legit sales of authentic items, so eBay's best option is to include a note with the shipment that the item(s) were NOT authenticated, and that they can be returned if wanted.

And as evidence on the countless other threads about the authentication program - there are many buyers saying "I don't need eBay to tell me that a graded card is real!" or "what if I still wanted the card(s) no matter what the program says - they shouldn't have the right to return it to the seller", etc, etc...

It's impossible to satisfy everyone's demands...

[NYRE2PECT]

Originally Posted by anusinha

The fake slabs dont look frosted on the edges, they must be custom made replica slabs that look identical to PSA.

I completely agree, and there does appear to be a fairly obvious "tell" in the fake slabs. Those two notches/blocks/tabs on the sides should be a dead giveaway, no?

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Sonnys88

Then you're also asking eBay to determine if a seller is intentionally trying to circumvent the program by listing a "lot" as a "single". What would be the guidelines for that determination? Many sellers accidentally list "lots" of cards under the "trading Card Singles" category. Many are still legit sales of authentic items, so eBay's best option is to include a note with the shipment that the item(s) were NOT authenticated, and that they can be returned if wanted.

And as evidence on the countless other threads about the authentication program - there are many buyers saying "I don't need eBay to tell me that a graded card is real!" or "what if I still wanted the card(s) no matter what the program says - they shouldn't have the right to return it to the seller", etc, etc...

It's impossible to satisfy everyone's demands...

This is very easy. If an item goes to PSA or CSG under the AG program, and it’s deemed the item did not qualify, the sale is voided and item sent back to the seller. It doesn’t matter what the intention of the seller is. It’s the seller’s responsibility to list their items correctly.

[Sonnys88]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

This is very easy. If an item goes to PSA or CSG under the AG program, and it’s deemed the item did not qualify, the sale is voided and item sent back to the seller. It doesn’t matter what the intention of the seller is. It’s the seller’s responsibility to list their items correctly.

Correct, it is the seller's responsibility to list their items correctly. And if that was the rule to return items that do not qualify for the AG program - then the seller should be responsible for return shipping fees at the least, and maybe a portion of the transaction fee, since it is their mistake by listing an item in the incorrect category.

And there will still be buyers complaining to eBay that they still wanted the items even if they didn't qualify for the program.

From my view, the program is pretty simple and straightforward. It gets complicated only due to sellers and buyers not reading or comprehending how the program works. It's more of "user" problem than a problem of the program itself.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by Sonnys88

Correct, it is the seller's responsibility to list their items correctly. And if that was the rule to return items that do not qualify for the AG program - then the seller should be responsible for return shipping fees at the least, and maybe a portion of the transaction fee, since it is their mistake by listing an item in the incorrect category.

And there will still be buyers complaining to eBay that they still wanted the items even if they didn't qualify for the program.

From my view, the program is pretty simple and straightforward. It gets complicated only due to sellers and buyers not reading or comprehending how the program works. It's more of "user" problem than a problem of the program itself.

I mean, eBay can just have PSA grade miscategorized lots and automatically charge the seller an added fee -- problem solved.

[corndog]

Nice work Dragon!

The seller did the same thing by selling a counterfeit Gretzky OPC rookie PSA 1.5 and
a lot of 33 crappy condition 1966 Topps hockey cards for $799.99.

I read the item description:



Real PSA 1.5 was purchased by movies_n_more777 on 10-24-2022
Feedback left from seller to buyer with 14,136 feedback number:



movies_n_more777 Ebay feedback number is 14,136:



Sale: https://www.ebay.com/itm/11559005041...p2047675.l2557



VCP record of the real card being sold:



Closeup of the counterfeit:



The real PSA 1.5 from the PSA Certification database:

[MaineMule]

Originally Posted by NYRE2PECT

I completely agree, and there does appear to be a fairly obvious "tell" in the fake slabs. Those two notches/blocks/tabs on the sides should be a dead giveaway, no?

Well done...I see exactly what you mean. Two notches/blocks/tabs evident on the fakes. Any other "tells" that anyone can see on the slabs?

[NYRE2PECT]

Originally Posted by MaineMule

Well done...I see exactly what you mean. Two notches/blocks/tabs evident on the fakes. Any other "tells" that anyone can see on the slabs?

Yes, but I'll hold onto any additional thoughts for now.

[clsports]

Good work as usual fellas. I am proud of the internet sleuths we have here for sure.

[DragonWagon]

Pretty much everything he has sold is Fake or Deactivated.

Here are some more.

1975 Bob Griese #100 Topps PSA 9 cert# 44638565 FAKE
$64.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11557895647...p2047675.l2557


1979 Wayne Grezky #18 OPC PSA 1.5 cert# 6513183 FAKE
$799.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11559005041...p2047675.l2557


1986 Patrick Ewing #6 Fleer Sticker PSA 9 cert# 64360705
1999 Patrick Ewing #26 Ultra PSA 10 cert# 60586961 DEACTIVATED
$299.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11559863795...p2047675.l2557


1999 Latrell Sprewell #45 Ultra PSA 10 cert# 60586970 DEACTIVATED
$29.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11564932052...p2047675.l2557

2007 Kevin Durant #2 Topps Rookie Card PSA 9 cert# 60586992 DEACTIVATED
$33.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11565007340...p2047675.l2557

1999 Charles Barkley #114 Ultra PSA 10 cert# 60586947 DEACTIVATED
$49.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11564931164...p2047675.l2557

1999 Reggie Miller #34 Ultra PSA 10 cert# 60586945 DEACTIVATED
$39.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11564931743...p2047675.l2557

1999 Grant Hill #30 Ultra PSA 10 cert# 60586959 DEACTIVATED
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11559754221...p2047675.l2557

2015 Connor McDavid #201 Upper Deck PSA 9 cert# 64854096 DEACTIVATED
2013 Nathan MacKinnon #238 Upper Deck PSA 10 cert# 50786038
$1,599.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11558230940...p2047675.l2557

2013 Giannis Antetokounmpo #290 Panini Prizm PSA 10 cert# 64278151 DEACTIVATED
$999.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11559759214...p2047675.l2557

2011 Mike Trout #US175 Topps Update PSA 10 cert# 64854100 DEACTIVATED
1989 Ken Griffey Jr #1 Upper Deck PSA 10 cert# 61397166 DEACTIVATED
$2,999.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11558989844...p2047675.l2557


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by DragonWagon

Pretty much everything he has sold is Fake or Deactivated.

That is frightening. He's using recent certs -- no old ones.

I don't know why anyone would expect buyers to know the difference between a fake and a real one.

This could be the next big scandal in the hobby. eBay allowed this to happen by not fixing the AG lot loophole from the beginning.

[NYRE2PECT]

Originally Posted by DragonWagon

Pretty much everything he has sold is Fake or Deactivated.

Here are some more.

1975 Bob Griese #100 Topps PSA 9 cert# 44638565 FAKE
$64.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11557895647...p2047675.l2557

1979 Wayne Grezky #18 OPC PSA 1.5 cert# 6513183 FAKE
$799.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11559005041...p2047675.l2557

1986 Patrick Ewing #6 Fleer Sticker PSA 9 cert# 64360705
1999 Patrick Ewiing #26 Ultra PSA 10 cert# 60586961 DEACTIVATED
$299.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11559863795...p2047675.l2557

1999 Latrell Sprewell #45 Ultra PSA 10 cert# 60586970 DEACTIVATED
$29.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11564932052...p2047675.l2557

2007 Kevin Durant #2 Topps Rookie Card PSA 9 cert# 60586992 DEACTIVATED
$33.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11565007340...p2047675.l2557

1999 Charles Barkley #114 Ultra PSA 10 cert# 60586947 DEACTIVATED
$49.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11564931164...p2047675.l2557

1999 Reggie Miller #34 Ultra PSA 10 cert# 60586945 DEACTIVATED
$39.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11564931743...p2047675.l2557

1999 Grant Hill #30 Ultra PSA 10 cert# 60586959 DEACTIVATED
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11559754221...p2047675.l2557

2015 Connor McDavid #201 Upper Deck PSA 9 cert# 64854096 DEACTIVATED
2013 Nathan MacKinnon #238 Upper Deck PSA 10 cert# 50786038
$1,599.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11558230940...p2047675.l2557

2013 Giannis Antetokounmpo #290 Panini Prizm PSA 10 cert# 64278151 DEACTIVATED
$999.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11559759214...p2047675.l2557

2011 Mike Trout #US175 Topps Update PSA 10 cert# 64854100 DEACTIVATED
1989 Ken Griffey Jr #1 Upper Deck PSA 10 cert# 61397166 DEACTIVATED
$2,999.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11558989844...p2047675.l2557


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Clearly PSA is aware...

[towerymt]

Originally Posted by StateEx

1. I'm surprised he's had such good luck cracking cases. I have yet to manage it without having the slab crack.

The very-very old ones with a wide seam on the edge are easy to split open w/o breaking the holder, but do leave signs of tampering via 'frosting'. I never tried any plastic glues that dissolve to bond to know if it might clear up.

This is offered as informational, not intended to creating fakes I found a change in the size of the gap around the edge on some holders, which made it tougher to start the splitting, but not by much.

[NYRE2PECT]

Originally Posted by towerymt

The very-very old ones with a wide seam on the edge are easy to split open w/o breaking the holder, but do leave signs of tampering via 'frosting'. I never tried any plastic glues that dissolve to bond to know if it might clear up.

This is offered as informational, not intended to creating fakes I found a change in the size of the gap around the edge on some holders, which made it tougher to start the splitting, but not by much.

I think he is using virgin fake/knock-off slabs...those aren't crack-outs, or re-used slabs.

[Sonnys88]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

That is frightening. He's using recent certs -- no old ones.

I don't know why anyone would expect buyers to know the difference between a fake and a real one.

This could be the next big scandal in the hobby. eBay allowed this to happen by not fixing the AG lot loophole from the beginning.

What loophole? eBay spells it out in clear terms - the program is for "single" cards. If you are a buyer who buys a "lot" of multiple cards and thinks it will be authenticated by the program, that is on the buyer for not reading the simple terms of the program. And, the buyer receives a very simply worded notice with their purchase that the item(s) were NOT authenticated, and can be returned if wanted. What more do you want them to do, hold the buyer's hand and give them a literacy test to make sure they know what "single" card means?

This is not rocket science.

If you read any of the numerous threads on the authentication program, there are countless people saying "why do we have to have an already graded card authenticated again?" and that the program is useless because they can tell what is and isn't a real graded card. Clearly this is not the case.

Scammers aren't taking advantage of a "loophole". They're taking advantage of uneducated buyers. And unfortunately it will continue to happen because as the saying goes "there is a sucker born every minute".

[StateEx]

I appreciate the explanations re the slabs. I figured there was some sort of industry trick to opening them I wasn't aware of. (And just to be clear, this is for non-nefarious purposes only. I prefer junk wax era cards in one touch holders for display.)

[towerymt]

Originally Posted by NYRE2PECT

I think he is using virgin fake/knock-off slabs...those aren't crack-outs, or re-used slabs.

I think so too. I saw the 'notch' that was pointed out, didnt see that on my early holders.

Assume this works by buying card, cracking out real card, use real flip in fake holder with either fake card or lesser condition card.

Take real card, sub back to PSA to get new cert number. Repeat?????????????

Buying the already-graded card was careless. Buy raw or non-PSA graded and create real cert#s over time by resubmitting the same cards again and again. Until PSA detects a pattern. Or can detect non-serial numbered cards. First issue solved by going through 3rd party, but then that creates another fingerprint to trace back and find all suspect certs.

[towerymt]

Originally Posted by StateEx

I appreciate the explanations re the slabs. I figured there was some sort of industry trick to opening them I wasn't aware of. (And just to be clear, this is for non-nefarious purposes only. I prefer junk wax era cards in one touch holders for display.)

Oh yeah, the newer ones have the top half overlap the bottom half, on the sides/edges. Those don't split easily w/o breakage, in my experience.

SGC holders are still like 1st gen PSA holders with the gap around the edge (in case someone has one, doesnt have an early PSA slab, and wants to compare the two styles)

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by Sonnys88

What loophole? eBay spells it out in clear terms - the program is for "single" cards. If you are a buyer who buys a "lot" of multiple cards and thinks it will be authenticated by the program, that is on the buyer for not reading the simple terms of the program. And, the buyer receives a very simply worded notice with their purchase that the item(s) were NOT authenticated, and can be returned if wanted. What more do you want them to do, hold the buyer's hand and give them a literacy test to make sure they know what "single" card means?

This is not rocket science.

If you read any of the numerous threads on the authentication program, there are countless people saying "why do we have to have an already graded card authenticated again?" and that the program is useless because they can tell what is and isn't a real graded card. Clearly this is not the case.

Scammers aren't taking advantage of a "loophole". They're taking advantage of uneducated buyers. And unfortunately it will continue to happen because as the saying goes "there is a sucker born every minute".

eBay needs to tell the buyers of lots which pass through their AG program they may contain fake or decertified PSA slabs -- buyers shouldn't be expected to know this. They also need to do a better job preventing their AG logo from showing up in listings for card lots.

Clearly, scammers are using the AG logo to give their listings an appearance of credibility and trustworthiness.

[Archangel1775]

It should be easy to keep key graded rookie cards from being sold within lots to skip the process. However, there are some non-expensive cards that are being faked, which is worrisome.

[Bunny Hop]

It's pretty gross absorbing this thread and then reading through the seller's feedback.

[cholodolo]

Originally Posted by NYRE2PECT

Clearly PSA is aware...

Yes, and I'd be concerned they took the "we can't comment on why we decertified the slab" instead of "it was a fake and we stopped it" tack.

[NYRE2PECT]

Originally Posted by cholodolo

Yes, and I'd be concerned they took the "we can't comment on why we decertified the slab" instead of "it was a fake and we stopped it" tack.

I agree...