Who was the better hitter? - Page 2

SaveMeTheGum · 01-02-2019, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

So at least three of the big stats used to judge hitting McGwire has a pretty big advantage in yet the one that is probably least valueble(average) Gwynn has a lead so that’s the most important? Ok.

Well, are we talking power hitter, or hitter? They are 2 different conversations. Which one are we having?

Peties Army · 01-02-2019, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray27Ray52

Steroid enhanced stats mean absolutely nothing to me. You're a lot smarter than this. I mean you have to be trolling us right?

Of course there is a the steroid issue, but we can’t go back and determine who was doing what.

I mean how am I trolling? I gave you hard evidence McGwire was better, you said “your eyes” said different. I don’t know what to say? Ok

If you want to exclude all guys who we think did peds then ok.

no10pin · 01-02-2019, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

Of course there is a the steroid issue, but we can’t go back and determine who was doing what.

I mean how am I trolling? I gave you hard evidence McGwire was better, you said “your eyes” said different. I don’t know what to say? Ok

If you want to exclude all guys who we think did peds then ok.

You say McGwire is a better hitter because of stats, but you are again talking production, not who was better at hitting.

I mean, if we are going to use OPS, HR & RBI, then there's a whole list of them. Mark Teixeira beats Gwynn in all of those categories, is he a better hitter than Gwynn?

Peties Army · 01-02-2019, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

Well, are we talking power hitter, or hitter? They are 2 different conversations. Which one are we having?

Like I’ve said a few times, if you are talking guy most likely to get a hit then it’s gwynn, if you are talking guy most likely to do damage its McGwire. I like guys who do damage. Others may not

Frankly only thing gywnn has over mcgwire is average. Everything else mcgwire has a pretty big advantage.

Triple B · 01-02-2019, 01:17 PM

That Mark McGwire is even on that list...you may as well have put Dan McGwire.

Ray27Ray52 · 01-02-2019, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

Of course there is a the steroid issue, but we can’t go back and determine who was doing what.

I mean how am I trolling? I gave you hard evidence McGwire was better, you said “your eyes” said different. I don’t know what to say? Ok

If you want to exclude all guys who we think did peds then ok.

There is no evidence that McGwire was better because his numbers are all tainted and for all intents and purposes hollow and worthless. The guy hit Hr's, walked, and struck out a lot. He wasn't a hitter. Tony Gwynn was a hitter.

Also, we don't need to go back. We know what McGwire did. We know what Bonds did. We know what many others did to warp statistics beyond repair. Forever more we will be judging contemporaries using an artificially enhanced scale that is irretrievably broken.

Peties Army · 01-02-2019, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no10pin

You say McGwire is a better hitter because of stats, but you are again talking production, not who was better at hitting.

I mean, if we are going to use OPS, HR & RBI, then there's a whole list of them. Mark Teixeira beats Gwynn in all of those categories, is he a better hitter than Gwynn?

You are arguing semantics.

We have stats that show mcgwire was the more damaging hitter. If you think Gwynn is the better hitter cause he got more singles the ok, I disagree but if that’s what you view the better hitter as ok , I don’t

Peties Army · 01-02-2019, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray27Ray52

There is no evidence that McGwire was better because his numbers are all tainted and for all intents and purposes hollow and worthless. The guy hit Hr's, walked, and struck out a lot. He wasn't a hitter. Tony Gwynn was a hitter.

Also, we don't need to go back. We know what McGwire did. We know what Bonds did. We know what many others did to warp statistics beyond repair.

Ok. You think Gwynn is better. Got it. You like singles hitters. No problem

no10pin · 01-02-2019, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

You are arguing semantics.

We have stats that show mcgwire was the more damaging hitter. If you think Gwynn is the better hitter cause he got more singles the ok, I disagree but if that’s what you view the better hitter as ok , I don’t

OK, so start a 'most damaging hitter' poll and McGwire will blow Gwynn out of the water. Most people think the same way when they hear the term 'best hitter', and the poll results back that up.

calculusdork · 01-02-2019, 01:24 PM

What do you mean by "hitter"?

Peties Army · 01-02-2019, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no10pin

OK, so start a 'most damaging hitter' poll and McGwire will blow Gwynn out of the water. Most people think the same way when they hear the term 'best hitter', and the poll results back that up.

Ok. Thanks for your input.

Peties Army · 01-02-2019, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calculusdork

What do you mean by "hitter"?

It appears majority mean guy most likely to get singles

erock28 · 01-02-2019, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no10pin

OK, so start a 'most damaging hitter' poll and McGwire will blow Gwynn out of the water. Most people think the same way when they hear the term 'best hitter', and the poll results back that up.

This, 1000%. Hitters come in different forms - "pure", "power", etc. - and when I see 'best hitter' I immediately think pure. All a matter of interpretation. I'd take a team of Gwynn's over a team of McGwire's any day of the week.

ALBASKETBALL · 01-02-2019, 01:26 PM

What's the catch?????

One hitter is considered one of the best pure hitters of all time...the two others are fringe HOFer's (For different reasons)

Ray27Ray52 · 01-02-2019, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

It appears majority mean guy most likely to get singles

Are you a chick? Cause you really dig the long balls. Not that I have a problem with it, especially if you are hot.

SaveMeTheGum · 01-02-2019, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

Like I’ve said a few times, if you are talking guy most likely to get a hit then it’s gwynn, if you are talking guy most likely to do damage its McGwire. I like guys who do damage. Others may not

Frankly only thing gywnn has over mcgwire is average. Everything else mcgwire has a pretty big advantage.

By damage, do you mean to the game of baseball? You have to admit his stats are a bit inflated, no? It's probably more legit to compare Mark McGwire through age 30 to Tony Gwynn through age 30. I know that was before the glorious St. Louis years, but even then he probably wasn't clean.

Peties Army · 01-02-2019, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erock28

This, 1000%. Hitters come in different forms - "pure", "power", etc. - and when I see 'best hitter' I immediately think pure. All a matter of interpretation. I'd take a team of Gwynn's over a team of McGwire's any day of the week.

Why? A team full of McGwire a would get on base more and hit for more power. Why would you take a team of Gwynn’s over that?

Peties Army · 01-02-2019, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALBASKETBALL

What's the catch?????

One hitter is considered one of the best pure hitters of all time...the two others are fringe HOFer's (For different reasons)

Can someone define “pure” hitter?

Peties Army · 01-02-2019, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray27Ray52

Are you a chick? Cause you really dig the long balls. Not that I have a problem with it, especially if you are hot.

Good one

no10pin · 01-02-2019, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

It appears majority mean guy most likely to get singles

Most people (I'm assuming based on results) view a hit as a hit in this case. Single, HR, whatever. So it's not just who has the most singles, but who was most likely to get a hit.

Again, open to interpretation obviously, but I see what you are doing.

erock28 · 01-02-2019, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

Why? A team full of McGwire a would get on base more and hit for more power. Why would you take a team of Gwynn’s over that?

The little things of baseball mean a great deal - hitting to the right side with a runner on second to move him to third, spraying the ball around to beat shifts, just putting it in play in general. A team of McGwire's would bank on a couple of walks and a home run - a lot more ways to beat you with singles, doubles, and smart outs. I like the home run as much as anyone...but being one dimensional isn't ideal. Just my opinion.

teosdesserts · 01-02-2019, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

Why? A team full of McGwire a would get on base more and hit for more power. Why would you take a team of Gwynn’s over that?

^^^^^A lineup of McGwires is substantially more valuable and it’s not close.

Boo · 01-02-2019, 01:33 PM

Two outs bottom of the ninth, down a run with guys on second and third.

Gwynn hits his terrible single and wins the game

McGwire strikes out

Votto stares are 4 pitches half an inch off the plate and takes his base

Peties Army · 01-02-2019, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

By damage, do you mean to the game of baseball? You have to admit his stats are a bit inflated, no? It's probably more legit to compare Mark McGwire through age 30 to Tony Gwynn through age 30. I know that was before the glorious St. Louis years, but even then he probably wasn't clean.

Jesus, stop with the St. Louis talk. I can think a player is good if he doesn’t play for the cardinals. It’s not like I’m saying Ray Lankford is better.

Again if you want to say you are not counting all players who have ped stuff hanging over their head then ok. I dont discount them

Peties Army · 01-02-2019, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no10pin

Most people (I'm assuming based on results) view a hit as a hit in this case. Single, HR, whatever. So it's not just who has the most singles, but who was most likely to get a hit.

Again, open to interpretation obviously, but I see what you are doing.

Fair enough but not all hits are created equal which is why average is not a great stat

View Poll Results: Who was the better hitter?
McGwire	11	3.65%
Gwynn	272	90.37%
Votto	18	5.98%
Voters: 301. You may not vote on this poll

01-02-2019, 01:17 PM	#30
Triple B Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Toronto Posts: 6,227	That Mark McGwire is even on that list...you may as well have put Dan McGwire. __________________ Wanted Dead or Alive! 1. 1997 Bowman's Best Jose Cruz, Jr Atomic Refractor Autograph 2. 1997 SPx Jose Cruz, Jr. Grand Finale /50

01-02-2019, 01:33 PM	#48
Boo Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: PA Posts: 56,626 klay22	Two outs bottom of the ninth, down a run with guys on second and third. Gwynn hits his terrible single and wins the game McGwire strikes out Votto stares are 4 pitches half an inch off the plate and takes his base __________________ I have found that flicking through a few threads on my smartphone is a great way to pass some time while "stocking the pond."Hairy 6/7/12 “ I feel you, brother. Welcome to East Berlin, circa 1963.” Hairy 5/9/20

01-02-2019, 01:24 PM	#35
calculusdork Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Nowheresville Posts: 26,683 calculusdork calculusdork	What do you mean by "hitter"?

01-02-2019, 01:26 PM	#39
ALBASKETBALL Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 5,113	What's the catch????? One hitter is considered one of the best pure hitters of all time...the two others are fringe HOFer's (For different reasons)