9 More Trimmed 2009 Trout Elite Extra Edition Autos Sold via PWCC

[cking]

Originally Posted by JoeAdam

How is it fraud unless the grading company was in on it. I can do whatever I want with my cards, the grading companies need to be able to catch this.

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[cardzzz]

Wow...Now I will definitely get my ready for this one

[moosetequila]

DAFUQ

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[psd2k10]

And this is why i NEVER buy from probstein and pwcc. they are hurting the hobby so much in my opinion.

[Cubsfanp]

Basically, I’m never buying any form of this card, graded or not.

[NoleinJax]

Originally Posted by JoeAdam

How is it fraud unless the grading company was in on it.

If I buy a PSA 9 Trout Update rookie, crack it, trim it, and resub it for a 10 to increase the value by hundreds, how am I not committing fraud, whether in the legal sense or not?

[JoeAdam]

Didn’t mean for my last post to imply me doing or condoning this.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by JoeAdam

How is it fraud unless the grading company was in on it. I can do whatever I want with my cards, the grading companies need to be able to catch this.

So if you turn back the odometer on your car and the dealership you sell it to was not in on it, that's cool, right, cuz it's up to the dealership to make sure you didn't do this and you can do whatever you want with your cars?

I don't want to derail this thread, but you should probably rethink the logical implications of your position.

[majestik101]

Originally Posted by moosetequila

DAFUQ

PWCC's ticker symbol

[JoeAdam]

Originally Posted by superdan49

So if you turn back the odometer on your car and the dealership you sell it to was not in on it, that's cool, right, cuz it's up to the dealership to make sure you didn't do this and you can do whatever you want with your cars?

I don't want to derail this thread, but you should probably rethink the logical implications of your position.

But that’s actually a crime. Is trimming a baseball card a crime? I’m genuinely asking, not defending the position

[majestik101]

Originally Posted by JoeAdam

But that’s actually a crime. Is trimming a baseball card a crime? I’m genuinely asking, not defending the position

I'm pretty sure fraud in any form is a crime.

[dmanrico]

Amazing work as always OP. Have you sent this info to any of the press like a Darren Rovell? I feel like the only way we’re going to get these companies to make changes for the better is if there starts to be some legitimate press about what is going on. You have more than enough evidence to create a great story for a journalist.

[GoBeavs]

Originally Posted by TarjetasBéisbol

This gets worse and worse as the OP does more great research and nothing from the grading companies.

Exactly. We have heard the response from PWCC; which sounds perfectly reasonable. Yet the BO mob is still after PWCC, while giving the grading companies a pass. The board needs some serious redirection here.

Here's a hint: Shutting down PWCC will not make trimming go away. They are only dealing with a symptom of the problem, but can do nothing about the cure.

BTW, Good work OP.

[JoeAdam]

Originally Posted by majestik101

I'm pretty sure fraud in any form is a crime.

True. And I don’t want to take this thread too off topic since the OP did a lot of work. But if I bought this card as a PSA 10 how am I being defrauded? I have an original card that was certified by PSA or BGS. Sure, it was once worse off but that’s not what I’d be buying

[Ray27Ray52]

Originally Posted by JoeAdam

True. And I don’t want to take this thread too off topic since the OP did a lot of work. But if I bought this card as a PSA 10 how am I being defrauded? I have an original card that was certified by PSA or BGS. Sure, it was once worse off but that’s not what I’d be buying

You should step away from this thread.

[dmanrico]

Originally Posted by majestik101

I'm pretty sure fraud in any form is a crime.

This is a fascinating issue relative to fraud claims. The nuance here is that for fraud, a person has to make a material misrepresentation of a fact, but in the case of card grading, the person with the knowledge of the trimming is different from the person giving the grade on the card. It would be a slam dunk case if the owner of the card was representing the grade of the card, but that’s not the case. They’re simply sending a card to a third party (grading company) who is rendering their opinion on the condition of the card. The card then gets sold to somebody else who is relying on the opinion of the card grader (not the owner of the card who has the knowledge). No where in this process does the owner actually make a representation of the condition of the card inducing the buyer to pay more than they should.

The fact that TPGs are only rendering opinions and the size of the trimmed cards may still fall within their allowance standards for grading further complicates the matter.

For the record, I’m completely against the trimming going on here. Just giving my $0.02 here regarding the discussion about fraud prosecution.

[JoeAdam]

Originally Posted by Ray27Ray52

You should step away from this thread.

Will do since my train just got in and I’m hungry lol

[3124508 on COMC]

We can at least thank PWCC for it's very user-friendly and extensive catalog of trimmed and potentially trimmed cards.

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/sale...ms_per_page=50

[SaveMeTheGum]

Has anyone reached out to PWCC and gotten a response?

National should be interesting...

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

Has anyone reached out to PWCC and gotten a response?

National should be interesting...

Doubtful they will respond to every one of these threads. However, it's clear they are reading along. And hopeful taking action to find the source of this trimmed material.

[SaveMeTheGum]

Changing the game alright.

PWCC changing the game

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by superdan49

Doubtful they will respond to every one of these threads. However, it's clear they are reading along. And hopeful taking action to find the source of this trimmed material.

Just posted these in response to a response just now in the Basketball forum.

[Scottish Punk]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

no kidding! have to wonder how many of them are small vs acceptable size

trimming is horrible, no doubt about it.

i wonder if there has to be some sort of slow-down in the grading process so that the cards can be examined under black light to look for miscolored edges/shavings

Simple solution is to put the measurement of the card on the slab or record on the web page. Of course, this will probably open the flood gates on how many cards are actually trimmed - including vintage.

It is sad to think a whole chunk of Trouts, Bradys, and Lebrons have all been doctored.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by psd2k10

And this is why i NEVER buy from probstein and pwcc. they are hurting the hobby so much in my opinion.

I wonder how many times these cards were sold and resold after they were purchased from PWCC. Are more people at fault?

Can damages be claimed?

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

I wonder how many times these cards were sold and resold after they were purchased from PWCC. Are more people at fault?

Can damages be claimed?

It's not a matter of saying PWCC is at fault. It's a matter of not wanting to buy a trimmed card.