The "ALTERED" T206 Honus Wagner NM-MT 8 on PSA Population Report - Page 2

Lonewolf · 06-25-2019, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruins1993

I have never offered a single argument in defense of "alterations" or the new spin of "conservation" for sports cards with a slabbed grade. I consider both wrongful or criminal deception without disclosure, especially numerically graded slabbed cards!

I have never been registered on blowoutforums.com before. Since it doesn't appear you want to believe me I encourage you to have the moderator/s double-check my account if you feel strongly about it rather than treat me like someone else based on assumptions.

Attacking me first with snide message then immediately playing victim is ridiculous.

Lets stick to the discussion on the T206 Wagner Population report going forward. Thanks!

I'll be the first to admit when I'm wrong, but I haven't been wrong about the other trolls yet. No one is playing victim, so save it. So with the air cleared, back to your discussion...

Bruins1993 · 06-26-2019, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JrFinest

I remember a documentary on this card. PSA stood by their stance "this is still the best copy known to exist".

So they must have been fans of conservation as well..... especially if their in a position to loose that type of money.

PSA Grading Standards:

"AA Authentic Altered - This means that while PSA is certifying that the item is genuine, due to the existence of alterations, the item cannot receive a numerical grade. The term altered may mean that the card shows evidence of one or more of the following: trimming, recoloring, restoration, and/or cleaning. Items receiving the "Authentic Altered" designation, in our opinion, are genuine with the presence of some type of alteration."
https://www.psacard.com/resources/gr...andards/#cards

Has anyone ever directly asked PSA the question, if a sports card with absolutely NO "presence of some type of alteration" is eligible for a numerical grade, even with a proven history of trimming?

bn2cardz · 06-26-2019, 02:07 PM

I believe PSA has stated they would only change the population if they have a chance to examine the card in hand and change the holder the card is in.

Since the current owner doesn't have any plans to allow that to happen, PSA will not change the system. As it stands the population report is correct, there is one card in circulation that has that label. Whether that label is correct or not is not their concern until the owner wants to make it their concern.

epatmythes · 06-26-2019, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I believe PSA has stated they would only change the population if they have a chance to examine the card in hand and change the holder the card is in.

Since the current owner doesn't have any plans to allow that to happen, PSA will not change the system. As it stands the population report is correct, there is one card in circulation that has that label. Whether that label is correct or not is not their concern until the owner wants to make it their concern.

This

/thread

Bruins1993 · 06-27-2019, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I believe PSA has stated they would only change the population if they have a chance to examine the card in hand and change the holder the card is in.

Does anyone have a reference on where to find that stated PSA position in writing?

Bruins1993 · 07-09-2019, 12:26 AM

Great to see PSA finally did the right thing

JrFinest · 07-09-2019, 12:33 AM

Oh wow. They might be starting to take this more seriously.

pejc300 · 07-09-2019, 12:51 AM

Umm...this is actually huge.

vwnut13 · 07-09-2019, 12:51 AM

auburn35 · 07-09-2019, 01:23 AM

Wow. Didn't even move into the authentic group.
Will be interesting to learn more about this decision

JrFinest · 07-09-2019, 01:27 AM

I think PSA knows their credibility took a hit. There has to be some internal discussions going on about future fraud prevention, etc.

I'm hoping this is just the beginning. Huge step in the right direction though.

daviswr7 · 07-09-2019, 01:55 AM

Golf clap for them. Well done.

Pacman69 · 07-09-2019, 01:56 AM

I’ve been reading all these threads and if this is real, it’s huge news.......so much for the PWCC tenets

Pacman

mjohnatgt · 07-09-2019, 04:58 AM

This has to be a result of the NY Times interview with Ken Kendrick. And since he said he's been offered much more than what he paid, PSA doesn't have much liability in downgrading it to Auth. Will be interesting when the next Quarterly tax documents come out to see what they say, and if this card is specifically mentioned.
Very interesting.

Confirmed by looking through the Pop Report. Current finest PSA Wagner is the PSA 5 NQ, then the PSA 4, then the PSA 5(MC) "Jumbo Wagner", tied with 3x PSA 3s.

KhalDrogo · 07-09-2019, 05:25 AM

Wow! As time passes, my money is on the PSA 5 NQ outselling the PSA 8 if they ever go up for sale.

dpeck100 · 07-09-2019, 07:23 AM

I wouldn't jump to conclusions if I were you as the AUTH category has not been updated.

This morning after reading about this on another forum I looked and the last photo I could find was from 2016 and the card was in the original holder.

When a card gets sent in for review or re-holder it is removed from the pop report entirely and the total pop you will see is 1 lower from the OP's post.

If I had to bet, PSA will stick by the grade and you will see this in a lighthouse holder.

Time will tell.

superdan49 · 07-09-2019, 07:35 AM

Ken Kendrick will still make a boatload of money when he decides to sell this notorious card. Perhaps PSA convinced him behind the scenes to have it regraded to help give their brand a credibility boost. If this is accurate, it is a bold move to move past the old days of David Hall's regime.

Either way, a great move by Steve Sloan if it is true. Let's see if we get either official word or get to see a photo of the card in a new PSA holder.

CaptSpaulding · 07-09-2019, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdan49

Ken Kendrick will still make a boatload of money when he decides to sell this notorious card. Perhaps PSA convinced him behind the scenes to have it regraded to help give their brand a credibility boost. If this is accurate, it is a bold move to move past the old days of David Hall's regime.

Either way, a great move by Steve Sloan if it is true. Let's see if we get either official word or get to see a photo of the card in a new PSA holder.

It is entirely possible the card is under review. When cards are in the review process they are removed from the pop report and their cert number is temporarily invalid. The number of Auth Wagners did not go up so I guess we need to check back.

Keyser Soze · 07-09-2019, 11:56 AM

What are the odds that Kendrick reached out to Moser, and it pops as a 9 in the next few days?

Bruins1993 · 07-09-2019, 12:38 PM

It would be truly awesome if Kendrick cracked it and mailed in the PSA slip...

smanzari · 07-09-2019, 12:42 PM

If this card is in for review, shouldn't the pop update sometime today? I'd assume this one would have to have the walkthrough service - correct?

dpeck100 · 07-09-2019, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smanzari

If this card is in for review, shouldn't the pop update sometime today? I'd assume this one would have to have the walkthrough service - correct?

The population totals do not update intraday.

smanzari · 07-09-2019, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpeck100

The population totals do not update intraday.

I know- I guess I meant later this evening/tonight

dpeck100 · 07-09-2019, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smanzari

I know- I guess I meant later this evening/tonight

You could probably check at 3AM eastern standard time.

pspa123 · 07-09-2019, 12:55 PM

The Wagner is ancient history. The card is notorious and it's irrelevant to its value what the flip says at this point. I personally could not care less.

06-26-2019, 02:07 PM	#28
bn2cardz Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 2,103	I believe PSA has stated they would only change the population if they have a chance to examine the card in hand and change the holder the card is in. Since the current owner doesn't have any plans to allow that to happen, PSA will not change the system. As it stands the population report is correct, there is one card in circulation that has that label. Whether that label is correct or not is not their concern until the owner wants to make it their concern. __________________ LOOKING FOR: 2002 Topps 206 Joey Votto Black Sweet Caporal Back Mini My collection (or at least what I have uploaded): https://www.flickr.com/photos/bn2cardz/

07-09-2019, 12:26 AM	#31
Bruins1993 Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Stuck inside of Mobile Posts: 1,289	Great to see PSA finally did the right thing Last edited by Bruins1993; 07-09-2019 at 12:30 AM.

07-09-2019, 01:23 AM	#35
auburn35 Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 4,348	Wow. Didn't even move into the authentic group. Will be interesting to learn more about this decision __________________ Ashley Lelie Rookie Collector, always looking for more.

07-09-2019, 05:25 AM	#40
KhalDrogo Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 41,191	Wow! As time passes, my money is on the PSA 5 NQ outselling the PSA 8 if they ever go up for sale. __________________ I love PSA!

07-09-2019, 07:35 AM	#42
superdan49 BODA Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 4,272	Ken Kendrick will still make a boatload of money when he decides to sell this notorious card. Perhaps PSA convinced him behind the scenes to have it regraded to help give their brand a credibility boost. If this is accurate, it is a bold move to move past the old days of David Hall's regime. Either way, a great move by Steve Sloan if it is true. Let's see if we get either official word or get to see a photo of the card in a new PSA holder. __________________ Cardboard Detective Emeritus superdan49@protonmail.com — Anonymous Tip-line

07-09-2019, 12:33 AM	#32
JrFinest Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,117 jrfinest_cards	Oh wow. They might be starting to take this more seriously.

07-09-2019, 12:51 AM	#33
pejc300 Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 10,713	Umm...this is actually huge.

07-09-2019, 12:51 AM	#34
vwnut13 Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Vermont Posts: 6,115

07-09-2019, 01:27 AM	#36
JrFinest Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,117 jrfinest_cards	I think PSA knows their credibility took a hit. There has to be some internal discussions going on about future fraud prevention, etc. I'm hoping this is just the beginning. Huge step in the right direction though.

07-09-2019, 01:55 AM	#37
daviswr7 Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Dagobah Posts: 7,470	Golf clap for them. Well done.

07-09-2019, 01:56 AM	#38
Pacman69 Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 253 Pacman!99 Pacman69	I’ve been reading all these threads and if this is real, it’s huge news.......so much for the PWCC tenets Pacman

07-09-2019, 04:58 AM	#39
mjohnatgt Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Niceville, FL Posts: 14,622 mjohnatgt mjohnatgt	This has to be a result of the NY Times interview with Ken Kendrick. And since he said he's been offered much more than what he paid, PSA doesn't have much liability in downgrading it to Auth. Will be interesting when the next Quarterly tax documents come out to see what they say, and if this card is specifically mentioned. Very interesting. Confirmed by looking through the Pop Report. Current finest PSA Wagner is the PSA 5 NQ, then the PSA 4, then the PSA 5(MC) "Jumbo Wagner", tied with 3x PSA 3s.

07-09-2019, 07:23 AM	#41
dpeck100 Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,432 dpeck100	I wouldn't jump to conclusions if I were you as the AUTH category has not been updated. This morning after reading about this on another forum I looked and the last photo I could find was from 2016 and the card was in the original holder. When a card gets sent in for review or re-holder it is removed from the pop report entirely and the total pop you will see is 1 lower from the OP's post. If I had to bet, PSA will stick by the grade and you will see this in a lighthouse holder. Time will tell.

07-09-2019, 11:56 AM	#44
Keyser Soze Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Close enough to Houston to say Houston Posts: 9,549	What are the odds that Kendrick reached out to Moser, and it pops as a 9 in the next few days? __________________ Every post you can hitch your faith on is a pie in the sky, chock full of lies a tool we devise to make sinking stones fly

07-09-2019, 12:38 PM	#45
Bruins1993 Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Stuck inside of Mobile Posts: 1,289	It would be truly awesome if Kendrick cracked it and mailed in the PSA slip...

07-09-2019, 12:42 PM	#46
smanzari Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: N/A Posts: 10,627	If this card is in for review, shouldn't the pop update sometime today? I'd assume this one would have to have the walkthrough service - correct?

07-09-2019, 12:55 PM	#50
pspa123 Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 3,727	The Wagner is ancient history. The card is notorious and it's irrelevant to its value what the flip says at this point. I personally could not care less.