$80 to $37.5k- Probstein Selling Newly Graded & Trimmed POP 1 PSA 10 '60 Topps Spahn

[3124508 on COMC]

Crappy scan, but trimming so obvious it doesn't matter. I've only highlighted one clearly altered border.

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/2079710

[3124508 on COMC]

Found a sticker!

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/2080048

[signed79]

Originally Posted by CircleTheWagon

A majority of collectors aren’t on this forum and have no idea what’s going on.

Very true. I try to bring it up in Facebook groups all the time and people either don't know...don't care....or defend PSA.

[3124508 on COMC]

Full PSA sub:

43676779 1973 TOPPS #80 WILT CHAMBERLAIN MINT 9 First Sale: 9/9/2019 $300.00 eBay (probstein123)
43676780 1975 TOPPS #143 BRIAN WINTERS MINT 9
43676781 1979 TOPPS #109 SWEN NATER MINT 9
43676782 1988 FLEER #115 JOHN STOCKTON MINT 9
43676783 1973 TOPPS #240 JULIUS ERVING MINT 9
43676784 1973 TOPPS #50 K. ABDUL-JABBAR NM-MT 8
43676785 1986 FLEER STICKER #1 KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR NM 7
43676786 1986 FLEER STICKER #1 KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR NM-MT 8
43676788 1988 FLEER ALL-STAR #120 MICHAEL JORDAN NM-MT 8
43676790 1979 TOPPS #31 ALEX ENGLISH MINT 9 First Sale: 9/9/2019 $97.00 eBay (probstein123)
43676791 1975 TOPPS #75 PETE MARAVICH MINT 9
43676792 1975 TOPPS #90 KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR MINT 9
43676794 1987 FLEER STICKER #2 MICHAEL JORDAN MINT 9
43676796 1986 FLEER #1 KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR GEM MT 10 First Sale: 10/15/2019 $1,076.01 eBay (probstein123)
43676797 1987 FLEER STICKER #5 KEVIN McHALE EX 5
43676798 1954 BOWMAN #10 VITO PARILLI VG-EX 4
43676799 1960 FLEER #58 GEORGE BLANDA MINT 9 First Sale: 9/9/2019 $157.50 eBay (probstein123)
43676800 1984 TOPPS USFL #36 JIM KELLY MINT 9
43676801 1974 TOPPS #130 O.J. SIMPSON MINT 9 First Sale: 9/9/2019 $224.39 eBay (probstein123)
43676802 1973 TOPPS #528 MIKE SENSIBAUGH MINT 9 First Sale: 9/9/2019 $266.60 eBay (probstein123)
43676803 1970 TOPPS #59 ALAN PAGE MINT 9 First Sale: 9/9/2019 $235.02 eBay (probstein123)
43676810 1962 TOPPS #176 CHECKLIST NM-MT+ 8.5 First Sale: 10/15/2019 $1,389.00 eBay (probstein123)
43676813 1984 TOPPS #123 DAN MARINO MINT 9 First Sale: 9/9/2019 $192.00 eBay (probstein123)
43676818 1969 TOPPS #9 SHERRILL HEADRICK NM-MT 8
43676819 1969 TOPPS #65 LARRY WILSON NM-MT 8
43676823 1986 O-PEE-CHEE #53 PATRICK ROY MINT 9 First Sale: 9/9/2019 $330.00 eBay (probstein123)
43676824 1976 O-PEE-CHEE #115 BRYAN TROTTIER MINT 9
43676825 1976 O-PEE-CHEE #115 BRYAN TROTTIER MINT 9
43676826 1981 O-PEE-CHEE #125 WAYNE GRETZKY MINT 9
43676827 1980 O-PEE-CHEE ERR.-BK.SAYS SHOOTS RT. #289 MARK MESSIER MINT 9
43676828 1984 O-PEE-CHEE #67 STEVE YZERMAN MINT 9 First Sale: 9/9/2019 $178.61 eBay (probstein123)
43676829 1984 O-PEE-CHEE #67 STEVE YZERMAN MINT 9
43676830 1974 O-PEE-CHEE HARRIS/STEWART/POTVIN #233 ISLANDERS LEADERS MINT 9
43676831 1988 O-PEE-CHEE #122 BRENDAN SHANAHAN GEM MT 10 First Sale: 9/9/2019 $461.00 eBay (probstein123)
43676832 1975 O-PEE-CHEE #281 JOE WATSON MINT 9
43676833 1985 O-PEE-CHEE #120 WAYNE GRETZKY MINT 9 First Sale: 9/9/2019 $139.08 eBay (probstein123)
43676834 1984 O-PEE-CHEE HART TROPHY #374 WAYNE GRETZKY GEM MT 10 First Sale: 9/9/2019 $102.50 eBay (probstein123)
43676835 1985 O-PEE-CHEE #237 AL MacINNIS MINT 9
43676837 1974 O-PEE-CHEE #100 WILLIE STARGELL MINT 9 First Sale: 9/9/2019 $537.00 eBay (probstein123)
43676838 1957 TOPPS #24 BILL MAZEROSKI EX-MT 6 First Sale: 11/10/2019 $65.00 eBay (probstein123)
43676839 1978 O-PEE-CHEE #154 EDDIE MURRAY MINT 9 First Sale: 9/9/2019 $330.04 eBay (probstein123)
43676840 1962 TOPPS #360 YOGI BERRA NM-MT 8
43676841 1961 TOPPS #29 DON NOTTEBART NM 7
43676842 1961 TOPPS #38 BOB LILLIS NM-MT 8
43676843 1961 TOPPS #41 NL BATTING LEADERS EX-MT 6
43676844 1965 TOPPS #510 ERNIE BANKS NM-MT+ 8.5 First Sale: 9/9/2019 $406.00 eBay (probstein123)
43676845 1965 TOPPS MANTLE'S CLUTCH HR #134 WORLD SERIES GAME 3 NM-MT 8 First Sale: 9/9/2019 $117.73 eBay (probstein123)
43676846 1965 TOPPS MANTLE'S CLUTCH HR #134 WORLD SERIES GAME 3 NM-MT 8 First Sale: 9/9/2019 $115.50 eBay (probstein123)
43676847 1965 TOPPS #336 WOODY HELD MINT 9
43676848 1965 TOPPS J.MORGAN/S.JACKSON #16 ASTROS ROOKIES NM-MT 8
43676849 1965 TOPPS #334 VIC ROZNOVSKY MINT 9
43676850 1965 TOPPS #20 JIM BUNNING MINT 9
43676851 1965 TOPPS S.VALDESPINO/C.TOVAR #201 TWINS ROOKIES MINT 9
43676852 1965 TOPPS N.BRILES/W.SPIEZIO #431 CARDINALS ROOKIES MINT 9
43676853 1966 THE 3 STOOGES WILL DO ANYTHING WE... #45 THESE HORSE PISTOLS MINT 9
43676854 1966 THE 3 STOOGES HARD WAY. MY GIRL GAVE... #13 I'LL HAFTA JUMP THE NM-MT 8
43676855 1966 THE 3 STOOGES BACKWARDS, MOE! #3 YOU GOT IT MINT 9
43676857 1959 THE 3 STOOGES CHECKLIST #63 CURLY, THE FIRST... NM 7 First Sale: 9/9/2019 $6,178.00 eBay (probstein123)
43676860 1964 OUTER LIMITS #9 FANGS OF DEATH NM-MT 8
43676864 1960 TOPPS #97 TED LEPCIO NM-MT 8
43676865 1961 TOPPS #43 NL HOME RUN LEADERS EX-MT+ 6.5
43676866 1961 TOPPS #120 ED MATHEWS EX-MT 6
43676867 1983 TOPPS #482 TONY GWYNN MINT 9
43676869 1959 TOPPS KLINE/FRIEND/LAW/FACE #428 BUC HILL ACES MINT 9
43676870 1967 TOPPS #30 AL KALINE NM-MT 8
43676871 1969 TOPPS #204 JACK HIATT NM-MT 8
43676873 1969 TOPPS #286 DOCK ELLIS MINT 9
43676874 1969 TOPPS #565 HOYT WILHELM NM-MT 8
43676875 1961 TOPPS #59 JIM WOODS NM 7
43676876 1961 TOPPS #68 DERON JOHNSON NM 7
43676877 1961 TOPPS #86 DODGERS TEAM NM 7
43676878 1961 TOPPS #115 JOHNNY ANTONELLI NM 7
43676879 1961 TOPPS #165 GINO CIMOLI NM 7
43676881 1961 TOPPS #177 DON LARSEN NM 7
43676882 1961 TOPPS #192 DICK BROWN NM 7
43676883 1961 TOPPS #289 RAY MOORE NM 7
43676884 1961 TOPPS #303 GARY PETERS NM 7
43676885 1961 TOPPS #557 JOSE VALDIVIELSO NM-MT 8
43676886 1961 TOPPS #328 JIM O'TOOLE NM-MT 8
43676887 1961 TOPPS #332 DUTCH DOTTERER NM-MT 8
43676888 1961 TOPPS #438 CURT FLOOD NM 7
43676889 1961 TOPPS #442 GORDON JONES NM 7
43676890 1956 TOPPS WITH DATE-WHITE BACK #95 BRAVES TEAM EX-MT 6
43676891 1956 TOPPS WHITE BACK #33 ROBERTO CLEMENTE EX 5
43676892 1959 TOPPS #478 BOB CLEMENTE EX-MT 6 First Sale: 8/31/2019 $96.05 eBay (handwovenluxury)
43676893 1959 TOPPS #478 BOB CLEMENTE EX 5 First Sale: 10/31/2019 $76.00 eBay (pwcc_auctions)
43676894 1953 TOPPS #82 MICKEY MANTLE GOOD+ 2.5 First Sale: 8/28/2019 $1,275.00 eBay (jimpc2444)
43676895 1955 TOPPS #162 JOE COLEMAN NM 7
43676898 1958 TOPPS #115 JIM BUNNING NM-MT 8
43676899 1950 BOWMAN #151 FRED HUTCHINSON EX-MT 6
43676900 1959 TOPPS 3,000th HIT #470 MUSIAL RAPS OUT EX-MT 6
43676901 1956 TOPPS WITH DATE-WHITE BACK #100 ORIOLES TEAM VG-EX 4 First Sale: 9/12/2019 $26.00 eBay (pwcc_auctions)
43676902 1956 TOPPS GRAY BACK #110 YOGI BERRA VG-EX 4 First Sale: 8/22/2019 $41.00 eBay (keviwallschlaege-0)
43676903 1963 FLEER #56 ROBERTO CLEMENTE MINT 9 First Sale: 9/15/2019 $801.00 eBay (pwcc_auctions)
43676904 1963 FLEER #56 ROBERTO CLEMENTE NM-MT 8
43676906 1957 TOPPS #201 SANDY AMOROS MINT 9 First Sale: 10/15/2019 $467.00 eBay (probstein123)
43676907 1957 TOPPS #391 RALPH TERRY NM-MT 8
43676908 1957 TOPPS #45 CARL FURILLO MINT 9 First Sale: 9/12/2019 $1,067.37 eBay (pwcc_auctions)
43676909 1957 TOPPS #70 RICHIE ASHBURN NM-MT+ 8.5 First Sale: 10/15/2019 $127.87 eBay (probstein123)
43676911 1958 TOPPS ALL STAR #480 EDDIE MATHEWS NM-MT 8
43676912 1952 BOWMAN #129 GUS NIARHOS EX-MT 6
43676913 1958 TOPPS #271 BILLY MARTIN MINT 9 First Sale: 9/12/2019 $500.00 eBay (pwcc_auctions)
43676914 1958 TOPPS CHECKLIST #158 INDIANS TEAM NM-MT 8 First Sale: 9/12/2019 $60.50 eBay (pwcc_auctions)
43676915 1956 TOPPS GRAY BACK #139 TOMMY CARROLL NM-MT 8
43676916 1960 TOPPS #445 WARREN SPAHN GEM MT 10
43676917 1955 TOPPS #100 MONTE IRVIN NM-MT+ 8.5 First Sale: 9/12/2019 $1,852.00 eBay (pwcc_auctions)
43676918 1968 TOPPS #123 JOSE SANTIAGO MINT 9
43676919 1968 TOPPS #145 DON DRYSDALE NM-MT 8
43676921 1968 TOPPS #5 NL HOME RUN LEADERS MINT 9 First Sale: 10/15/2019 $430.00 eBay (probstein123)
43676922 1968 TOPPS #390 BILL MAZEROSKI GEM MT 10 First Sale: 9/16/2019 $540.00 eBay (pwcc_auctions)
43676923 1968 TOPPS #116 KEN McMULLEN MINT 9
43676924 1968 TOPPS #3 N.L. RBI LEADERS NM-MT 8 First Sale: 9/16/2019 $104.50 eBay (pwcc_auctions)
43676925 1968 TOPPS #100 BOB GIBSON NM-MT 8
43676926 1968 TOPPS #40 DENNY McLAIN NM-MT 8
43676927 1968 TOPPS #330 ROGER MARIS MINT 9 First Sale: 9/29/2019 $169.99 eBay (pwcc_auctions)
43676929 1970 TOPPS KILLEBREW/POWELL/JACKSON #64 A.L. RBI LEADERS MINT 9 First Sale: 9/16/2019 $44.22 eBay (pwcc_auctions)
43676930 1970 TOPPS J.MAYBERRY/B.WATKINS #227 ASTROS ROOKIES NM-MT 8
43676931 1970 TOPPS BIRDS WRAP IT UP! #201 A.L.C.S. GAME 3 MINT 9
43676932 1970 TOPPS #113 JIM RAY NM-MT 8
43676933 1970 TOPPS ORIOLES WIN A SQUEEKER! #199 A.L.C.S. GAME 1 NM-MT 8
43676934 1970 TOPPS #600 WILLIE MAYS NM-MT 8
43676935 1970 TOPPS JENKINS/GIBSON/SINGER #71 NL STRIKEOUT LEADER NM-MT 8
43676936 1980 TOPPS #482 RICKEY HENDERSON NM-MT 8
43676937 1973 TOPPS #174 RICH GOSSAGE MINT 9 First Sale: 9/16/2019 $305.00 eBay (pwcc_auctions)
43676939 1973 TOPPS ALL-STAR ROOKIE #193 CARLTON FISK NM-MT 8
43676940 1973 TOPPS #300 STEVE CARLTON NM-MT 8
43676942 1971 TOPPS #50 WILLIE McCOVEY NM-MT 8
43676945 1971 TOPPS #26 BERT BLYLEVEN NM-MT 8 First Sale: 9/16/2019 $496.00 eBay (pwcc_auctions)
43676946 1978 TOPPS #36 EDDIE MURRAY NM-MT 8
43676947 1978 TOPPS #36 EDDIE MURRAY NM-MT 8
43676949 1964 TOPPS #260 FRANK ROBINSON NM 7 First Sale: 8/17/2019 $9.99 eBay (jtvnyc)
43676950 1964 TOPPS #350 WILLIE McCOVEY MINT 9 First Sale: 9/15/2019 $227.55 eBay (pwcc_auctions)
43676951 1964 TOPPS D.KNOWLES/L.NARUM #418 ORIOLES ROOKIES NM-MT 8
43676953 1964 TOPPS #155 DUKE SNIDER EX 5
43676954 1964 TOPPS ALL-STAR ROOKIE #125 PETE ROSE NM-MT 8 First Sale: 9/15/2019 $1,325.00 eBay (pwcc_auctions)
43676955 1964 TOPPS #209 BOB ALLEN MINT 9
43676956 1964 TOPPS #328 BOB SHAW NM-MT 8
43676957 1962 TOPPS #140 GEHRIG AND RUTH NM-MT 8
43676959 1975 TOPPS #100 WILLIE STARGELL NM 7
43676960 1964 TOPPS STAND-UP # DON LOCK EX 5
43676961 1964 TOPPS STAND-UP # JIM O'TOOLE NM-MT 8 First Sale: 9/15/2019 $76.00 eBay (pwcc_auctions)
43676962 1973 TOPPS #89 FRANCO HARRIS NM-MT 8 First Sale: 9/22/2019 $127.50 eBay (pwcc_auctions)
43676965 1972 TOPPS #338 BOB GRICH MINT 9 First Sale: 9/27/2019 $69.00 eBay (consignmints)
43676966 1972 TOPPS T.HUMPHREY/K.LAMPARD #489 EXPOS ROOKIES MINT 9
43676967 1972 TOPPS #763 RON HANSEN NM 7
43676968 1972 TOPPS #449 BOB LEMON MINT 9
43676969 1972 TOPPS #265 WES PARKER GEM MT 10 First Sale: 9/16/2019 $80.00 eBay (pwcc_auctions)
43676970 1972 TOPPS #582 EXPOS TEAM MINT 9
43676971 1966 TOPPS #365 ROGER MARIS MINT 9 First Sale: 9/15/2019 $881.00 eBay (pwcc_auctions)
43676972 1966 TOPPS B.SHIRLEY/G.JACKSON #591 N.L. ROOKIES MINT 9 First Sale: 9/15/2019 $934.00 eBay (pwcc_auctions)
43676973 1973 TOPPS #220 NOLAN RYAN NM-MT 8
43676974 1976 TOPPS #98 DENNIS ECKERSLEY MINT 9 First Sale: 9/16/2019 $801.00 eBay (pwcc_auctions)

[jasonm2121]

Feels like 90% of vintage in a newer holder is trimmed

[ken161]

This card was purchased in May. The PWCC Mantle thread was probably 100+ pages long by the time this card was trimmed. It doesn't look like PWCC or PSA has done much to ramp up their game. No surprise there.

Pretty brazen card doctor. This guy was not going to be denied his livelihood.

Is j***e someone new?

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Crappy scan, but trimming so obvious it doesn't matter. I've only highlighted one clearly altered border.

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/2079710

[cking]

The worse part is the trimmed Spahn will sell for crazy money and PSA will put it all over the web that you get huge money with PSA 10s

I am starting to think that it is not just incompetence.

I think they know these cards are trimmed. They grade them anyway. Grade them high and they show off all over the web the ending price of the card.

It keeps the seller happy and submitting.

It also makes other people submit thinking they will get the same results.

Ans PSA keeps making money.

Its almost like a shell game.

What does PSA care if the card is trimmed? They are not buying it.

What does PSA care if the card is really a 7-8 but they grade it a 10? They are not buying it.

Its sad that they are allowed to do this to people. In any type of regulated activity similar to this.............................what they are doing would be considered a criminal act.

[JrFinest]

Originally Posted by Wiseguy917

Why would you buy a PSA anything when they’ve been outed as nothing but incompetent money grabbers?

Because it was about the same price of a raw anyways. 1951 Topps.

I already have a low grade vintage Braves collection. I dont plan on stopping now. Hell altered / trims dont bother me at all as long as their labeled correctly. The card above was obviously meant for deception purposes. Which is obviously wrong. Curious to see how probstein handles it as opposed to PWCC.

I personally dont submit to PSA, BGS, or SGC. The only person getting money off of me is the seller.

[JrFinest]

Originally Posted by cking

The worse part is the trimmed Spahn will sell for crazy money and PSA will put it all over the web that you get huge money with PSA 10s

I am starting to think that it is not just incompetence.

I think they know these cards are trimmed. They grade them anyway. Grade them high and they show off all over the web the ending price of the card.

It keeps the seller happy and submitting.

It also makes other people submit thinking they will get the same results.

Ans PSA keeps making money.

Its almost like a shell game.

What does PSA care if the card is trimmed? They are not buying it.

What does PSA care if the card is really a 7-8 but they grade it a 10? They are not buying it.

Its sad that they are allowed to do this to people. In any type of regulated activity similar to this.............................what they are doing would be considered a criminal act.

Yeah. I was banned for mentioning the Namath they were advertising for years.... that also turned out to be altered. lol.

[3124508 on COMC]

[3124508 on COMC]

[tconte]

I wouldn't buy a thing from Probstein or PWCC. I run right by their auctions now.

One day some of the people buying the high grade worked on crap will get stuck with
it at big losses.

[JrFinest]

Originally Posted by tconte

I wouldn't buy a thing from Probstein or PWCC. I run right by their auctions now.

One day some of the people buying the high grade worked on crap will get stuck with
it at big losses.

I'm still surprised there hasnt been at least one law suit started by now.

[LVDan]

Originally Posted by cking

The worse part is the trimmed Spahn will sell for crazy money and PSA will put it all over the web that you get huge money with PSA 10s

I am starting to think that it is not just incompetence.

I think they know these cards are trimmed. They grade them anyway. Grade them high and they show off all over the web the ending price of the card.

It keeps the seller happy and submitting.

It also makes other people submit thinking they will get the same results.

Ans PSA keeps making money.

Its almost like a shell game.

What does PSA care if the card is trimmed? They are not buying it.

What does PSA care if the card is really a 7-8 but they grade it a 10? They are not buying it.

Its sad that they are allowed to do this to people. In any type of regulated activity similar to this.............................what they are doing would be considered a criminal act.

Sadder is the fact that people pay ridiculous premiums for some company’s opinion about a card’s condition. Altered or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ThoseBackPages]

looks like they stretched that Wilt

[dictoresno]

Soooooo if the sellers were listed among all these cards, PWCC and Probstein, who is this????




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by dictoresno

Soooooo if the sellers were listed among all these cards, PWCC and Probstein, who is this????




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There's several instances like that in there. Probably sold at a show or something or they were sold by Probstein/PWCC before that but PSA's image recognition API didn't pick up the sale. Probably the former in this case.

[superdan49]

Just for the sake of brevity, these are the eBay IDs of the "first" sellers where cards from that order were not sold through Probstein or PWCC:

handwovenluxury
jimpc2444
keviwallschlaege-0
jtvnyc
consignmints

[dictoresno]

Originally Posted by superdan49

Just for the sake of brevity, these are the eBay IDs of the "first" sellers where cards from that order were not sold through Probstein or PWCC:

handwovenluxury
jimpc2444
keviwallschlaege-0
jtvnyc
consignmints

any chance any of them are linked to anyone we have suspected before?

[cking]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

looks like they stretched that Wilt

Kinda similar in the way that PSA stretches the truth as well

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by cking

Kinda similar in the way that PSA stretches the truth as well

well played!

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by dictoresno

any chance any of them are linked to anyone we have suspected before?

consignmints would be the one to note.

[SaveMeTheGum]

The big money collectors are either ignorant (which is possible, but not likely that all of them have no clue), or just don't care, which to me seems even more likely. If they don't care, it's going to be hard to get the whole hobby to care. The only way to stop this is to either a) have these top buyers stop buying, which is highly unlikely, or b) have there be real, painful consequences to getting caught, which may be equally as unlikely.

I really hate this. All I see on the Facebook groups is posts asking where can people send their cards before grading so they can get a 10. It's really taking the fun out of this hobby.

[base set]

Well, there is one company that still publishes magazines about baseball cards, and those magazines are still sold at newsstands ... and they publish a website with baseball card news ... and they have this other service that gra... oh, wait.

[Pink Pussycat]

Originally Posted by cking

The worse part is the trimmed Spahn will sell for crazy money and PSA will put it all over the web that you get huge money with PSA 10s

I am starting to think that it is not just incompetence.

I think they know these cards are trimmed. They grade them anyway. Grade them high and they show off all over the web the ending price of the card.

It keeps the seller happy and submitting.

It also makes other people submit thinking they will get the same results.

Ans PSA keeps making money.

Its almost like a shell game.

What does PSA care if the card is trimmed? They are not buying it.

What does PSA care if the card is really a 7-8 but they grade it a 10? They are not buying it.

Its sad that they are allowed to do this to people. In any type of regulated activity similar to this.............................what they are doing would be considered a criminal act.

That's why the FBI is our only hope for shutting down this corruption. The submitting sheep with dollar signs in their eyes don't know/don't care about fraudulent alterations, and will continue to support PSA no matter what. No amount of concrete evidence will ever sway them.

If the FBI lets PSA continue with business as usual, there will NEVER be an end to these criminal practices and deception.