Major distributor (SteelCity) weighing and selling National Panini packs

[SGC300ier]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

It's hard to imagine that the market for sealed wax (especially high end stuff) doesn't tank in the near future. After Logan Paul's pokemon in the last few weeks alone there was a fake 2012 prizm box, a fake national treasures box, a resealed fake 86 fleer basketball box. One can only imagine how many people are holding fake wax boxes right now and buyers will likely be afraid to buy boxes from any third party holding them.

I bought a handful of Bowman Mega Boxes a couple years back. Obviously the only good thing from those were the Mojo packs. I opened them all but one and decided to hold. Well I can't do that so a couple days later I opened it and no Mojo pack. If I had sold that down the road, it would have made me look really bad.

Also in my recent case of Heritage, I got down to the last box and didn't hit the Hot Box yet. I thought about keeping it sealed. Decided to open it...guess what, no Purple Hot box

[Bosoxfan5990]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

You should not be putting the name of the dealer in the title without verifying your facts. It is slander. The part about weighing is even more egregious. Steel City is the best in the business, IMO, due to their ownership. Sean and Ken and good people.

What happened is a collation issue. We saw multiple "dud" sleeves handed out at the National and multiple "loaded" sleeves. There is no way to tell until you start opening, and not all sleeves are fully empty either. There could be runs of 20 packs in a row with nothing followed by 20 packs in a row with autos.

SCC does not weigh packs or have any reason to engage in shady behavior over a promo item. They are pulling packs directly from the sleeves in the order they came. It sucks that some are apparently duds but in no way is this a shady or intentional action by SCC.

As to why I am defending them? Sean is a friend. I'd like to think I know my friends pretty well. I keep a small circle in this industry and I would go to bat for that dude any day. Panini screwed up. Simple as that.

Was it Sean who cancelled the Kobe Bryant eBay sales when he passed and re-listed with a higher mark up?

[boxbuster7]

Originally Posted by Bosoxfan5990

Was it Sean who cancelled the Kobe Bryant eBay sales when he passed and re-listed with a higher mark up?

If we have learned anything in the last few years it is that you can't trust anybody when it comes to cards.

It is unfortunate and disheartening, and probably the reason most new people in the hobby turn around and leave.

[badkarma318]

Funny how the gold packs (which can't be cherry picked via weighing) have zero collation issues, yet the silver packs (which can be cherry picked via weighing, and any "fat" packs can be easily identified visually and separated) are rife with them.

RGL is far from the only person complaining about this - it is not an isolated incident, and the mathematical probabilities that many lesser-known (or unknown) customers have gotten completely skunked (paper base only - no inserts/no autos) across larger sample sizes, yet Steel City's own breaks show numerous inserts and/or autos being pulled left and right across smaller sample sizes, and a high-profile YouTube "influencer" just happens to go 10-for-10 on autos are astronomical. About as high as pulling 5 "Johnson" cards in a row from a BBCE "authenticated" pack of 86-87 Fleer.

I'm sure Steel City will blame Panini, and if Panini decides to respond at all, they will blame Toby in the warehouse, and it will all be swept away and forgotten, at least until the next shady incident occurs. Same sad script, different day.

[NYRE2PECT]

Originally Posted by badkarma318

Funny how the gold packs (which can't be cherry picked via weighing) have zero collation issues, yet the silver packs (which can be cherry picked via weighing, and any "fat" packs can be easily identified visually and separated) are rife with them.

RGL is far from the only person complaining about this - it is not an isolated incident, and the mathematical probabilities that many lesser-known (or unknown) customers have gotten completely skunked (paper base only - no inserts/no autos) across larger sample sizes, yet Steel City's own breaks show numerous inserts and/or autos being pulled left and right across smaller sample sizes, and a high-profile YouTube "influencer" just happens to go 10-for-10 on autos are astronomical. About as high as pulling 5 "Johnson" cards in a row from a BBCE "authenticated" pack of 86-87 Fleer.

I'm sure Steel City will blame Panini, and if Panini decides to respond at all, they will blame Toby in the warehouse, and it will all be swept away and forgotten, at least until the next shady incident occurs. Same sad script, different day.

These recent incidents are incredibly blatant demonstrations of deception.

**even if untrue, the optics just look bad and is a dis-service to the consumer

[auctionjmm]

Originally Posted by badkarma318

Funny how the gold packs (which can't be cherry picked via weighing) have zero collation issues, yet the silver packs (which can be cherry picked via weighing, and any "fat" packs can be easily identified visually and separated) are rife with them.

RGL is far from the only person complaining about this - it is not an isolated incident, and the mathematical probabilities that many lesser-known (or unknown) customers have gotten completely skunked (paper base only - no inserts/no autos) across larger sample sizes, yet Steel City's own breaks show numerous inserts and/or autos being pulled left and right across smaller sample sizes, and a high-profile YouTube "influencer" just happens to go 10-for-10 on autos are astronomical. About as high as pulling 5 "Johnson" cards in a row from a BBCE "authenticated" pack of 86-87 Fleer.

I'm sure Steel City will blame Panini, and if Panini decides to respond at all, they will blame Toby in the warehouse, and it will all be swept away and forgotten, at least until the next shady incident occurs. Same sad script, different day.

Another dude who comments without educating himself first. Same sad script, different day.

If you don't have the time to review this story back to 7/28 when the collation issues were made known, then your opinion means nothing.

But this is par for the course for people to scream conspiracy without educating themselves first. This has nothing to do with "lesser-known" v.s. "known". I was THERE. Not on the internet. I was at the actual show watching all of this transpire before my eyes and there are a whole lot of "lesser knowns" who walked away with some crazy cards due to this collation error.

You could argue that Panini should have shut the line down and reshuffled the packs on Thursday and that may be a fair point, but I can assure you there were no handshake or backdoor deals in regards to loaded packs. The 18 yr old interns handing these things out were freaking clueless when the autos started pouring out. Just as clueless when the duds were handed out.

[ctgalloway21]

SCC has always been shady and their breakers are geeks

[Triple B]

Distributors are going the way of the dinosaur. Gotta get gettin' while the gettin' is good.

[auctionjmm]

Originally Posted by Bosoxfan5990

Was it Sean who cancelled the Kobe Bryant eBay sales when he passed and re-listed with a higher mark up?

That didn't happen either. But nobody cared for the explanation even though it happened to many big sellers. The computer program that manages inventory for businesses on multiple sites crashed. Ever wonder how a company can have the same items listed on 10 different websites at once? Ever notice that when you buy an item from Blowout's eBay store it disappears from their website? It's a computer program. Duh. And what do you think happens when thousands of people start buying these items at once? It crashes.

This led to product being oversold. Kobe Bryant took down the internet and the only "logical" explanation by this jaded community was that everyone just cancelled sales and relisted higher for more profits. That was the story ya'll went with. Nobody cared about the actual story behind it... the credit card holds that never went through, the chargebacks pinged by fraud departments, the complete clusterfuk of orders that overwhelmed the system. Every logical explanation was passed over so that people could scream about profits.

A Kobe autograph to these corporations is like pennies to us. Anyone who thinks these businesses ruined their reputation to re-sell a few Kobe autographs for an extra $200 is stupid.

[coachnip13]

Originally Posted by badkarma318

Funny how the gold packs (which can't be cherry picked via weighing) have zero collation issues, yet the silver packs (which can be cherry picked via weighing, and any "fat" packs can be easily identified visually and separated) are rife with them.

RGL is far from the only person complaining about this - it is not an isolated incident, and the mathematical probabilities that many lesser-known (or unknown) customers have gotten completely skunked (paper base only - no inserts/no autos) across larger sample sizes, yet Steel City's own breaks show numerous inserts and/or autos being pulled left and right across smaller sample sizes, and a high-profile YouTube "influencer" just happens to go 10-for-10 on autos are astronomical. About as high as pulling 5 "Johnson" cards in a row from a BBCE "authenticated" pack of 86-87 Fleer.

I'm sure Steel City will blame Panini, and if Panini decides to respond at all, they will blame Toby in the warehouse, and it will all be swept away and forgotten, at least until the next shady incident occurs. Same sad script, different day.

I'm as nobody as it gets, and I cleaned up in my silver packs. I got fewer than 10 base cards out of 20 packs.

[Grizzkid12]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

That didn't happen either. But nobody cared for the explanation even though it happened to many big sellers. The computer program that manages inventory for businesses on multiple sites crashed. Ever wonder how a company can have the same items listed on 10 different websites at once? Ever notice that when you buy an item from Blowout's eBay store it disappears from their website? It's a computer program. Duh. And what do you think happens when thousands of people start buying these items at once? It crashes.

This led to product being oversold. Kobe Bryant took down the internet and the only "logical" explanation by this jaded community was that everyone just cancelled sales and relisted higher for more profits. That was the story ya'll went with. Nobody cared about the actual story behind it... the credit card holds that never went through, the chargebacks pinged by fraud departments, the complete clusterfuk of orders that overwhelmed the system. Every logical explanation was passed over so that people could scream about profits.

A Kobe autograph to these corporations is like pennies to us. Anyone who thinks these businesses ruined their reputation to re-sell a few Kobe autographs for an extra $200 is stupid.

In fairness it wasn't an extra $200.. I had 2 different Flawless Kobe autos /10 before he passed. Had one listed for months on Ebay at $300 OBO and was struggling to get any offers in the $250 range. The day he passed the same card was pulling $2500+

Not disputing the rest of what you said though, but if they had lets say 100 Kobe autos you're talking 100k+ in additional sales by potentially pulling something shady, not $20,000.

[ctgalloway21]

just watched Layton Sports break some silver packs and dude pulled a Brady Superfractor. If you order thru SCC, you get paper base.

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Dawg

Why does anyone still buy anything from Panini anyways? Singles are the way to go

Is there a magical singles tree I can buy to get them without anyone busting wax?

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by ctgalloway21

just watched Layton Sports break some silver packs and dude pulled a Brady Superfractor. If you order thru SCC, you get paper base.

Damn! First time Layton’s has ever pulled a huge card. They got REAL lucky!

[auctionjmm]

Originally Posted by Grizzkid12

In fairness it wasn't an extra $200.. I had 2 different Flawless Kobe autos /10 before he passed. Had one listed for months on Ebay at $300 OBO and was struggling to get any offers in the $250 range. The day he passed the same card was pulling $2500+

Not disputing the rest of what you said though, but if they had lets say 100 Kobe autos you're talking 100k+ in additional sales by potentially pulling something shady, not $20,000.

He was referring to 8x10s, 16x20s, and basketballs. These weren't Kobe cards. These were JSA certified photos and balls. The price increase on those was not nearly as drastic as the cards. If it were individual cards listed only on eBay then I'd understand the outrage but when you have 30 Kobe photos for sale on multiple sites and sell 100 of them due to a software crash, there's not a lot you can do other than apologize and take the inevitable negs.

[solt0131]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

You should not be putting the name of the dealer in the title without verifying your facts. It is slander. The part about weighing is even more egregious. Steel City is the best in the business, IMO, due to their ownership. Sean and Ken and good people.

What happened is a collation issue. We saw multiple "dud" sleeves handed out at the National and multiple "loaded" sleeves. There is no way to tell until you start opening, and not all sleeves are fully empty either. There could be runs of 20 packs in a row with nothing followed by 20 packs in a row with autos.

SCC does not weigh packs or have any reason to engage in shady behavior over a promo item. They are pulling packs directly from the sleeves in the order they came. It sucks that some are apparently duds but in no way is this a shady or intentional action by SCC.

As to why I am defending them? Sean is a friend. I'd like to think I know my friends pretty well. I keep a small circle in this industry and I would go to bat for that dude any day. Panini screwed up. Simple as that.

I agree fully with you on this one. I also heard from several sources there were multiple sleeves of dud packs and there was no way to know if you had one or not. They do not weigh their packs.

[badkarma318]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

Another dude who comments without educating himself first. Same sad script, different day.

If you don't have the time to review this story back to 7/28 when the collation issues were made known, then your opinion means nothing.

But this is par for the course for people to scream conspiracy without educating themselves first. This has nothing to do with "lesser-known" v.s. "known". I was THERE. Not on the internet. I was at the actual show watching all of this transpire before my eyes and there are a whole lot of "lesser knowns" who walked away with some crazy cards due to this collation error.

You could argue that Panini should have shut the line down and reshuffled the packs on Thursday and that may be a fair point, but I can assure you there were no handshake or backdoor deals in regards to loaded packs. The 18 yr old interns handing these things out were freaking clueless when the autos started pouring out. Just as clueless when the duds were handed out.

Another dude who is clearly in bed with Steel City, and will blindly white knight for them at every single opportunity, regardless of circumstances, community outcry, guilt or innocence. According to this acolyte, Steel City has never done a single thing wrong in the history of the company. Every single customer who has ever been treated unfairly or outright screwed (many of them here on BO, legions more currently sharing their negative experiences on Twitter, IG, YouTube, etc.) is at fault, apparently.

If you can't put aside the friendships with the people behind Steel City that are clearly affecting your judgement, and look at each situation and complaint objectively without going into "Steel City can do no wrong" autopilot mode, then your opinion means nothing.

I'll just leave this classy and professional response from Steel City here, and wait for the mental gymnastics/explanation twaddle to roll in:

[coachnip13]

I just got home and weighed two silver pack base cards and compared it to two silver pack numbered foil cards. Identical.

[whitmm]

If the issues were so well known, going all the back to during the actual convention, why were companies still selling them and pulling them straight from the box?

This easily could have been remedied by the resalers by shuffling up the boxes to at least prevent some of the long runs of certain types. Or, sacrifice a few packs to figure out where the run breaks are and get them mixed up.

I'm not agreeing with the OP that SCC searched or weighed packs, but they certainly didn't do themselves any favors by ignoring a well known issue (it was out there before they would have made their repacks) and just grabbing them from the boxes in order.

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

You could argue that Panini should have shut the line down and reshuffled the packs on Thursday and that may be a fair point, but I can assure you there were no handshake or backdoor deals in regards to loaded packs.

This is something those reselling these packs should have done as well.

[Pacmeyer]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

It's hard to imagine that the market for sealed wax (especially high end stuff) doesn't tank in the near future. After Logan Paul's pokemon in the last few weeks alone there was a fake 2012 prizm box, a fake national treasures box, a resealed fake 86 fleer basketball box. One can only imagine how many people are holding fake wax boxes right now and buyers will likely be afraid to buy boxes from any third party holding them.

It should go without saying that buyers need to do their homework. People cluelessly holding fake wax boxes just don't understand that anyone can shrinkwrap anything at home using simple equipment.

Will it look the same as factory sealed? Not very likely, but most buyers will overlook the telltale signs so fraudsters don't even need to try that hard. The flaws to look for have been discussed in other threads. Anyone who's interested can search the forum.

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by smanzari

Could have also been how panini gave them to them. I wouldn't be surprised if they had separate piles - "hit packs" and regular packs or if they received a box with the hit packs all stacked on one-end.

Have to remember a Machine inserts these hit packs randomly into wax but that last step isn't there for packs like these

I watched a YouTube video by Packman where he hit an auto in every pack. Then I watched some others share their outcomes via YouTube and most hit paper.

Wouldn't be surprised if what smanzari said is true.

[auctionjmm]

Originally Posted by badkarma318

Another dude who is clearly in bed with Steel City, and will blindly white knight for them at every single opportunity, regardless of circumstances, community outcry, guilt or innocence. According to this acolyte, Steel City has never done a single thing wrong in the history of the company. Every single customer who has ever been treated unfairly or outright screwed (many of them here on BO, legions more currently sharing their negative experiences on Twitter, IG, YouTube, etc.) is at fault, apparently.

If you can't put aside the friendships with the people behind Steel City that are clearly affecting your judgement, and look at each situation and complaint objectively without going into "Steel City can do no wrong" autopilot mode, then your opinion means nothing.

I'll just leave this classy and professional response from Steel City here, and wait for the mental gymnastics/explanation twaddle to roll in:

I am not going to be ruffled by your strawman argument and I hope others won't be either. This is a good example though of how one person could distort something so badly on the internet that a bystander could easily fall for it.

I responded to TWO, exactly two, specific examples in the last few hours for which I knew enough about to comment. Your response? I am now a white knight at "every single opportunity", "autopilot", "history of the company", blah blah blah. You took two points from this thread to paint me as a lifetime blind defendant of this business. Nice work. Extremism at it's finest.

I practice what I preach in that I read and educate myself before commenting. If a friend of mine was accused of something he didn't do, I would defend. If a friend of mine was accused of something and I didn't know the truth behind it, I would shut my mouth until I knew more. He could forge an autograph tomorrow and my opinion would certainly change. There is no blind loyalty here.

I run a business too. A small one, but nonetheless I've gotten negative feedback and complaints over the course of 23 years. Mental gymnastics are not necessary to explain that nobody runs a perfect ship and mistakes happen. Even poor judgment from time to time happens. If you have employees, they can screw up too. But there is a huge gap between calling someone a moron and being accused of weighing promotional packs. I defended SCC against the accusation of weighing packs. I know nothing about the "moron" comment you screenshotted or who typed it or even why. Maybe the customer deserved it. Maybe he didn't. I can't defend what I don't know. So let's drop the strawman BS and focus on MY comment that packs weren't weighed. I can't and won't defend the entire history of a company's customer relations even if you want people to believe that I do.

[boxbuster7]

did they call rungoodlife a moron? or somebody else?

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by eastbayak

I watched a YouTube video by Packman where he hit an auto in every pack. Then I watched some others share their outcomes via YouTube and most hit paper.

Wouldn't be surprised if what smanzari said is true.

Has there been anything showing full boxes of silver packs coming out empty on hits? Or is it more of a the boxes had similar amounts of "hits" but they were all inserted as a group? Not that there's odds on these things. Were they just grabbing a stack of 25 "hits" and putting them in boxes instead of mixing them in throughout?

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

If a friend of mine was accused of something he didn't do, I would defend. If a friend of mine was accused of something and I didn't know the truth behind it, I would shut my mouth until I knew more.

Can you ask your friend if he shuffled or randomized his silver packs before packing out their orders, since the issue was apparently known all the way back on the first day of the show?