The Big Fundamental: The Official TIM DUNCAN (Timmy) Thread

[rogueriver]

Tim Duncan is by far the most undervalued player in the basketball card world. I am not sure why he does not receive more love. Maybe he was just boring to watch. Personally I couldn’t stand him because I am a Laker fan. Why his cards are not up there with Kobe and Lebrun I will never know...

[TheVolta]

I recently changed up my PC a bit and started with these two…

[sportzking]

Definitely my favorite player, if not my favorite. It's between him and David Robinson. Was easy collecting TD cards too. I still remember buying up his autos for a good price when others were paying top dollars for the flashy players.

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by TheVolta

I recently changed up my PC a bit and started with these two…

Classic cards. Very nice.

Underrated still also. I've always held off on the TC but I think you've made me realize I need one. And possibly a refractor.

[pokemaniac]

Originally Posted by GOATcards

let's just say that the Kobe from the same set ('15 Court Kings) costs around 10x the Timmy

This is probably true for multiple players in any given modern set when compared to Kobe nowadays, no? Not really a case of others being undervalued, but Kobe being over. Remember his prices before he died?

90s Duncan is certainly not undervalued, even outside of his rookie year.

[GOATcards]

nice recent addition to my Timmy RCs

https://www.tcdb.com/ViewCard.cfm/si...1-5-Tim-Duncan

[Ewing33]

My one Duncan

474DD5B5-B909-41A6-A3D6-984C3B16FEC1 by Nick, on Flickr

[Kabuki]

Some of my Duncan's from my PC

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by Ewing33

My one Duncan

474DD5B5-B909-41A6-A3D6-984C3B16FEC1 by Nick, on Flickr

Looks like a card you should sell me.

[Chris P]

My last two Duncan pickups




Very happy to get this in today. I absolutely love the look of the Black Diamond Gold Parallels from 2003-04. Saw this and had to get it

[BRADYSDOGHAVEN]

Originally Posted by Kabuki

Some of my Duncan's from my PC

HOLY #@#@#@#@!!!!

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by GOATcards

I don't always go for cards from insert sets, but when I do,

[GOATcards]

Chatbot exchange

what would be an argument for Bill Russell and Tim Duncan as being in the top 3 basketball players ever
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
An argument for placing Bill Russell and Tim Duncan in the top 3 basketball players of all time would likely revolve around their unparalleled success in winning championships, sustained excellence across long careers, and leadership on both ends of the floor. Here's a breakdown of the key points:

1. Bill Russell: The Ultimate Winner
11 Championships in 13 Seasons: Russell's career is defined by an unmatched ability to win titles, leading the Boston Celtics to 11 NBA championships, the most in NBA history. Winning consistently in the playoffs, especially in the Finals, is arguably the most important indicator of greatness.
Defensive Dominance: Russell revolutionized the game with his shot-blocking, rebounding, and overall defensive impact. He is often credited with inventing the concept of modern rim protection, using his elite defensive instincts to anchor the Celtics' dynasty.
Leadership and Intangibles: Russell was known for his leadership on and off the court, acting as a player-coach for two of his championships. His ability to elevate teammates and handle the pressure of high-stakes games is unparalleled.
Beating the Best Competition: Russell faced some of the greatest players of his era, including Wilt Chamberlain, and consistently came out on top in high-stakes series. His Finals record of 11-1 speaks to his clutch performance in the ultimate games.
2. Tim Duncan: The Model of Consistency and Two-Way Excellence
5 Championships in 19 Seasons: Duncan led the San Antonio Spurs to five NBA titles over three different decades (1999, 2003, 2005, 2007, and 2014). His ability to anchor both offense and defense made him the centerpiece of one of the most successful franchises in NBA history.
Longevity and Consistency: Duncan maintained a high level of play for nearly two decades, remaining effective deep into his career. His ability to sustain excellence over time, even as his role evolved, is a testament to his adaptability and basketball IQ.
Elite Two-Way Impact: As a power forward/center, Duncan was both a dominant defender and an efficient offensive force. He won two MVPs and was a 15-time All-Defensive Team member, showing his sustained impact on both ends of the floor.
Quiet Leadership and Winning Culture: Like Russell, Duncan’s leadership was often understated but highly effective. He was known for setting the tone for team culture in San Antonio, helping to foster a winning, team-first mentality that endured long after he retired.
Key Themes Supporting Top 3 Placement:
Winning Championships: Both Russell and Duncan are among the most successful winners in NBA history, with Russell being the ultimate symbol of winning. Duncan's five championships, particularly spread across such a long period, make him one of the most successful players of the modern era.
Defensive Mastery: Both players were among the best defensive anchors in NBA history. Russell is widely considered the greatest defensive player ever, while Duncan consistently ranked as one of the best defenders for nearly two decades.
Longevity and Consistency: Duncan’s ability to sustain elite play for 19 seasons and Russell's ability to dominate the league during his entire career set them apart from many other all-time greats.
Leadership and Intangibles: Both players were known for their leadership and ability to elevate the players around them, with Russell leading in the clutch and Duncan fostering a long-term culture of excellence.
Given that the ability to win championships, play elite defense, and lead a team through adversity are often seen as the most important markers of greatness, both Russell and Duncan have strong arguments to be in the top 3 all-time players. Their cases rest on the combination of individual excellence and their extraordinary impact on team success.



You said:
is there really all that much separation between the #2 and (say) #10 all-time players
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
The separation between the #2 and #10 all-time basketball players depends on the criteria used to rank them, but in most cases, the gap can be relatively small, especially at the highest level of greatness. Here’s why:

1. Differences in Skill Sets and Roles
Basketball positions and roles vary significantly. A player’s impact can be more nuanced depending on their responsibilities (e.g., scoring, playmaking, defense, leadership). The distinction between a dominant center like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (#2 for many) and a versatile wing like Larry Bird (who might rank around #10) may be small when considering overall impact but large in terms of how they impacted the game stylistically.
2. Context and Competition
The level of competition a player faced and the era they played in can make it difficult to distinguish large gaps. For example, LeBron James (#2 or #3 on many lists) has faced different challenges compared to players like Hakeem Olajuwon or Shaquille O'Neal (often ranked near #10), who dominated in other contexts. The top 10 players often had to elevate their teams in different ways due to the circumstances around them.
3. Championships vs. Individual Impact
Championships often separate players in rankings, but many all-time greats have a strong case for the top spots based on their individual excellence even if they didn’t win as many titles. For example, Tim Duncan’s five championships might seem to place him ahead of Kobe Bryant (five titles as well), but many rank Wilt Chamberlain (two titles) or Hakeem Olajuwon (two titles) as comparable or just slightly lower, given their singular impact on the game.
4. Longevity and Prime vs. Peak
A significant factor in all-time rankings is how long a player sustained elite play versus their peak performance. Bill Russell and Magic Johnson are often ranked higher due to their winning and impact over slightly shorter careers, while someone like Shaquille O'Neal or Kobe Bryant might rank around #10 due to a combination of longer careers and legendary peaks. The gap between their primes can be small, but longer careers like LeBron James's or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's may give them an edge.
5. Marginal Separation in All-Time Greatness
When evaluating players of this caliber, the margins are often very slim. Each player’s unique style, position, and team impact make a clear-cut ranking more subjective. For example, the difference between Michael Jordan (#1 for most) and LeBron James or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (often considered #2 or #3) may come down to personal preference for scoring ability, dominance, or versatility. Similarly, placing Shaq at #9 and Tim Duncan at #6 might depend on whether you prioritize defense and longevity (Duncan) or peak dominance (Shaq).
6. Cultural Influence and Legacy
While legacy is often excluded from purely "on-court" discussions, it’s still a factor that shapes perceptions. Players like Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, and Kobe Bryant have left indelible marks on the game, and the separation in ranking them comes down to small differences in their overall basketball resumes.
7. Clutch Performance and Playoff Impact
Clutch performances and postseason impact can slightly widen or shrink gaps between players. For instance, Larry Bird or Magic Johnson might be elevated over someone like Oscar Robertson (often ranked around #10) due to their playoff performances. However, once players reach the top 10, most have proven their ability to excel under pressure, which reduces the gap further.
Conclusion: Narrow Separation Among the Elite
The separation between the #2 and #10 greatest players is relatively narrow and is often driven by nuances in playstyle, era, and career context. At this level, these players are all transcendent talents whose contributions to basketball were immense. Ranking them ultimately becomes a matter of splitting hairs—whether someone values championships more than peak dominance, longevity over prime, or clutch performances over two-way impact.

In summary, while there may be slight edges in certain categories, the gap between #2 and #10 is not vast, especially compared to the rest of the all-time player field. Players in the top 10 are often separated by the smallest of margins.

[Chris P]

Awesome mailday today, another Finals Jersey Card, this one of Timmy

[drobfan8]

Nice work Chris.

My TD collection is just not the same anymore.

I'd love to add a nice piece, but keep on missing at auction.

[Chris P]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

Nice work Chris.

My TD collection is just not the same anymore.

I'd love to add a nice piece, but keep on missing at auction.

Thanks! I'm still wanting to add a Chrome Rookie Refractor. I couldnt pass this up though

[bmf]

Most underrated player of all time?

[Beavers98]

Great Thread. Timmy is one of my pc and favorite players. Best PF of all time easy!!

[Chris P]

Just got this in. Tim Duncan Chrome Rookie Refractor. Finally can check it off the list!