2025 MVP Races

[jraarmy]

Originally Posted by marl1220

Correction. No CATCHER.

And that's for HRs. He lags BIG TIME in almost every other category.

Correction. No switchhitter as well 😊

[SaveMeTheGum]

Originally Posted by marl1220

Correction. No CATCHER.

And that's for HRs. He lags BIG TIME in almost every other category.

He just broke Mickey Mantle's switch hit HR record. And he plays Catcher. Judge is amazing, but what Raleigh is doing is historic.

[jlzinck]

Originally Posted by dantheman514

I think Cal will win MVP. Sure, Judge is having an amazing season, but Cal is having an historic season doing things no one has done before.

Pre 2000 he wins. No way the fancy stat whores let it happen in 2025

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by jlzinck

Pre 2000 he wins. No way the fancy stat whores let it happen in 2025

He would have won the MVP pre-2000s with a .247 batting average?

He won't be the first or last player to not win MVP after leading the league in home runs.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by jraarmy

Correction. No switchhitter as well 😊

I mean, it's noteworthy that he's a switch hitter, but it really should have no impact on his perceived value as a player.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

He just broke Mickey Mantle's switch hit HR record. And he plays Catcher. Judge is amazing, but what Raleigh is doing is historic.

The best argument that can be made that he's more deserving of the MVP than Judge is that he's a catcher. Fangraphs attempts to quantify his added value from catcher by factoring in pitch framing, but they still say Judge has been more valuable -- or at least just as valuable.

Of course, you can't quantify everything a catcher does in helping their pitching staff and pre-game preparation. At the same time, it's easier than ever to catch games -- Pitchcom, the collision rule, analytics.

[HeritageKing]

I wonder if Ohtani is betting on himself winning?

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

He just broke Mickey Mantle's switch hit HR record. And he plays Catcher. Judge is amazing, but what Raleigh is doing is historic.

Judge historically broke the rookie home run record in 2017. Did not win MVP.

[seanrs1]

Originally Posted by HeritageKing

I wonder if Ohtani is betting on himself winning?

You must be a comedian or a bitter collector that doesn't have an Ohtani collection.

But if Ohtani did bet on himself...then he would have won his bet.

[JustinVerlander07]

For AL, Cal and Judge are so close, it's Cal for me because he's a platinum winning defensive catcher and Judge is a total zero on defense because he can't even throw the ball. It matters. Both great players before the Yankee crusade freaks out.

[fulltritty]

Cal Raleigh's team stats/AL stats/MLB stats:

Runs: 1st/2nd/6th
Hits: 3rd/27th/61st
Doubles: 5th/50th/107th
Homeruns: 1st/1st/1st
RBIs: 1st/1st/3rd
Total Bases: 1st/2nd/3rd
Walks: 1st/2nd/6th
Ks: 2nd most/4th most/10th most
BA: 11th/48th/105th
OBP: 3rd/7th/21st
SLG: 1st/2nd/3rd
OPS: 1st/2nd/3rd
WAR: 1st/2nd/3rd


Aaron Judge team stats/AL Stats:

Runs: 1st/1st/2nd
Hits: 1st/4th/7th
Doubles: 3rd/21st/38th
Homeruns: 1st/2nd/4th
RBIs: 1st/5th/8th
Total Bases: 1st/1st/2nd
Walks: 1st/1st/2nd
Ks: most/11th most/27th most
BA: 1st/1st/1st
OBP: 1st/1st/1st
SLG: 1st/1st/1st
OPS: 1st/1st/1st
WAR: 1st/1st/1st

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

For AL, Cal and Judge are so close, it's Cal for me because he's a platinum winning defensive catcher and Judge is a total zero on defense because he can't even throw the ball. It matters. Both great players before the Yankee crusade freaks out.

I don’t know. This looks like a quality arm:

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

For AL, Cal and Judge are so close, it's Cal for me because he's a platinum winning defensive catcher and Judge is a total zero on defense because he can't even throw the ball. It matters. Both great players before the Yankee crusade freaks out.

Please describe what makes him a "platinum winning defensive catcher" this year which is what the MVP award is based on. He only has a 25% caught stealing rate which is good for 20th in MLB among qualified catchers.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leade...Direction=desc

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

Please describe what makes him a "platinum winning defensive catcher" this year which is what the MVP award is based on. He only has a 25% caught stealing rate which is good for 20th in MLB among qualified catchers.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leade...Direction=desc

He won it last year. At the least, he's an elite defensive player. If you're sole argument against that is caught stealing percentage (which is on pitchers, probably not Cal) then you're just being a dense Yankees homer.

We can both agree Judge right now is the biggest defensive liability in Baseball though, right? Because I just watched him against the Tigers and guys were running on him 1st to 3rd and the ball would be in his glove before they touched 2nd base and they kept going.

Again, both great players, it's really close. I'd lean towards the elite defensive catcher, it's a lot harder to quantify catching defensive numbers and we all know Cal is elite on the defensive end while Judge will have spent a good 6-8 weeks being a massive liability in the outfield. That matters.

[cnewby]

Judge easily. Stop making this seem difficult.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by cnewby

Judge easily. Stop making this seem difficult.

That was a really great argument!

Another dense Yankees homer, love to see ya!

[Nostalgia]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

I mean, it's noteworthy that he's a switch hitter, but it really should have no impact on his perceived value as a player.

Shouldn't it be easier to have great stats as a switch-hitter? I never understood the "And he's switch-hitter too" to make a better case for a player argument.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by Nostalgia

Shouldn't it be easier to have great stats as a switch-hitter? I never understood the "And he's switch-hitter too" to make a better case for a player argument.

You have to be able to do 2 things really well.

[livfreely]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

Cal Raleigh's team stats/AL stats/MLB stats:

Runs: 1st/2nd/6th
Hits: 3rd/27th/61st
Doubles: 5th/50th/107th
Homeruns: 1st/1st/1st
RBIs: 1st/1st/3rd
Total Bases: 1st/2nd/3rd
Walks: 1st/2nd/6th
Ks: 2nd most/4th most/10th most
BA: 11th/48th/105th
OBP: 3rd/7th/21st
SLG: 1st/2nd/3rd
OPS: 1st/2nd/3rd
WAR: 1st/2nd/3rd


Aaron Judge team stats/AL Stats:

Runs: 1st/1st/2nd
Hits: 1st/4th/7th
Doubles: 3rd/21st/38th
Homeruns: 1st/2nd/4th
RBIs: 1st/5th/8th
Total Bases: 1st/1st/2nd
Walks: 1st/1st/2nd
Ks: most/11th most/27th most
BA: 1st/1st/1st
OBP: 1st/1st/1st
SLG: 1st/1st/1st
OPS: 1st/1st/1st
WAR: 1st/1st/1st

/thread

The one with the most 1sts wins


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[cnewby]

Originally Posted by livfreely

/thread

The one with the most 1sts wins


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Exactly. It's simple, but not for the simple-minded.

[JRX]

Well for catchers, its most hr all time, 15th most rbi, 16th most runs, 7th highest slg, 10th highest wRC+, 4th highest fwar. I think he's going to get it because he's a catcher. If they both played the same position, Judge would easily win, but Cal is having one of all time great seasons for a catcher and he still has plenty of games left to hit 60+HR.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by livfreely

/thread

The one with the most 1sts wins


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So defense just doesn't matter?

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

He won it last year. At the least, he's an elite defensive player. If you're sole argument against that is caught stealing percentage (which is on pitchers, probably not Cal) then you're just being a dense Yankees homer.

We can both agree Judge right now is the biggest defensive liability in Baseball though, right? Because I just watched him against the Tigers and guys were running on him 1st to 3rd and the ball would be in his glove before they touched 2nd base and they kept going.

Again, both great players, it's really close. I'd lean towards the elite defensive catcher, it's a lot harder to quantify catching defensive numbers and we all know Cal is elite on the defensive end while Judge will have spent a good 6-8 weeks being a massive liability in the outfield. That matters.

Talk about a homer. You obviously have no idea what a MVP award is based on. Nothing Cal Raleigh did last year on defense or Aaron Judge did last year on offense is considered towards this year's MVP. If you're going to consider Cal's defense last year, then take away the homeruns and RBI's he's hit this year because he wasn't as good last year at those.

It's the same way Judge passing Yankee Hall of Fame greats in career homeruns have nothing to do with giving him the MVP. Look at the lists I posted a few posts ago on Cal and Judges rankings on their team, the American League, and all of MLB. One could argue that Cal isn't even the best overall offensive player on his own team much less the most valuable player over everyone in the AL.

[livfreely]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

So defense just doesn't matter?

Ask him


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[BoSoxFan1999]

To everyone that thinks Raleigh has any chance of MVP this year: