PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc

[superdan49]

Multiple altered cards from this thread are still being sold on eBay, including one of the four 1952 Topps Mantle that have been called out:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?p=14927761

[Vintagecollect]

Not to mention dumps on message boards I'm sure. They should be noted as "previous PWCC" cards

[Pink Pussycat]

Originally Posted by regionrat

Scary

I wonder how many trimmed/altered and fake cards PSA and BGS have graded? Is it thousands, over-10,000, over 100,000?

We will truly never know the answer to this...

Imagine how many cards were sold or traded raw over the past few decades... with no available scans or ability to trace their respective histories. All of the "pre-ebay" trade shows, and card dealers like Mike Wheat, Kit Young, Shoebox Cards, etc. Imagine how many of these raw cards were subsequently doctored and submitted.

The latest batch of trimmed cards submitted here is astounding... both in terms of the quantity, and the amount of cardboard left on the cutting-room floor. And the fact that PSA can't detect these obviously thin/altered cards is beyond belief. Given that they were submitted by the same people over and over again really makes you wonder if something else is going on here.

Can PSA really be that inept at the one thing they're paid to do? I hope we'll see when it all shakes out...

[pip]

Originally Posted by regionrat

Scary

I wonder how many trimmed/altered and fake cards PSA and BGS have graded? Is it thousands, over-10,000, over 100,000?

Well over 100,000.

Edited to add: the FBI has no idea of the extent. If they can employ the services of the right persons, however, they'll have a proper roadmap.

[SetBuilder]

PSA Cert# 27148679

Card: 1888 N2 Allen & Ginter, Chief Joseph.

Alterations: Chemically cleaned, corners and left edge visibly altered (possibly micro-trimmed), surface chipped and damaged.

• Yellow circles are the common print marks/flaws between both cards.

• Blue boxes show the stain removal on the back of the card.

• Red boxes show the corners and edges visibly altered and reformed.

• Green boxes show chipping to the surface around the Chief's face.

Sold by PWCC (as SGC 88/8) on February 28, 2016 for $353 to Moser's whitman111 account.

Description: "Intensely high grade and thoroughly impressive example. By far the finest copy we've brokered in our history and certainly among the best copies in the hobby. " (Moser apparently disagreed. He thought it needed to be "conserved.")


Re-sold by PWCC (as a PSA 8) on May 23, 2017 for $1,138.33.


Description: "Outstanding PSA 8 Chief Joseph which represents one of the finest examples in the hobby. Displays beautiful centering with crisp edges and brilliant surfaces. [/B]" (Description mentions the edges, and therefore my suspicion about the micro-trimmed edge is likely correct.)


Gain: $785.33


Links:
Before: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1217096
After: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1494801


Fronts:


Backs:

[SetBuilder]

PSA Cert# 27148681

Card: 1887 Old Judge, Mike Tiernan, Stooping to Field Grounder.

Alterations: Cleaned, back completely altered, corners and edges worked, artificially stained.

• Yellow boxes show darkening of the background.

• Blue boxes show stains minimized on the front.

• Red boxes show the corners and edges visibly altered.

*Note how radically different the back looks. I believe the back was completely sanded off smooth with fine sandpaper since it's just a blank piece of cardboard. Then the card was stained brown to give a uniform appearance (note the background on the front is now darker). This was a completely unnecessary alteration on an already beautiful card. Very puzzling.

Sold by PWCC (as SGC 84/7) on November 8, 2016 for $610 to Moser's whitman111 account.

Re-sold by PWCC (as a PSA 7) on May 7, 2017 for $961.15.

Re-sold again by PWCC (as a PSA 7; same cert) on July 8, 2018 for $810.


Gain: $351.15


Links:
Before: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1378693
After: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1484440
After (sale #2): https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1686465


Fronts:


Backs:

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by pip

Well over 100,000.

Edited to add: the FBI has no idea of the extent. If they can employ the services of the right persons, however, they'll have a proper roadmap.

I think they know. They have been talking to many knowledgeable people.

[corndog]

PSA Cert #25959194

1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson RC #79

Value gain of $1,333.00

This card was purchased by whitman111 (Gary Moser) from Ebay seller sevenout03 as a PSA-4 on April 25, 2016 for $2,750.00.
VCP link:


Same card was sold by PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA-5 for $4,083.00 on September 07, 2016.
PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1341241

Yellow circles are print or fiber identifiers.
Red boxes identify trimmed left and right edges.

[mjohnatgt]

Someone should warn Gary Vee. Supposedly he was buying as many 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinsons that he could find at the National.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

Someone should warn Gary Vee. Supposedly he was buying as many 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinsons that he could find at the National.

Someone should warn him about his infamous business partner first.

[corndog]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Someone should warn him about his infamous business partner first.

[skurtis]

Originally Posted by corndog

From the no question is a dumb question crowd: who are those two guys, and what do we need to know about them?

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Someone should warn him about his infamous business partner first.

[corndog]

Originally Posted by skurtis

From the no question is a dumb question crowd: who are those two guys, and what do we need to know about them?

Known card trimmer and PSA Sponsored Dealer Jason Koonce on the left: https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...WSl1uWrvGtvcwQ

Entrepreneur, investor, card collector Gary Vaynerchuk (Gary Vee) on the right.

[Card Love]

For those of you who havent seen this. Makes me sick to my stomach. I will never buy from PWCC. Brent Explains his stance. Basically says he's not naive and knew what was going on etc etc. If you really listen to his words carefully he reveals allot.

Cliff's

- Knew What was going on
- Calls Altering Restoration
- Kind of throws PSA under the bus
- Claims to have seen the light and will work very hard to fix this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f3k5VSqVt4


BTW This got 20 months in jail for altering 1 card 30yrs ago! So where does that leave PWCC and Moser?

https://www.beckett.com/news/bill-ma...ederal-prison/

[tonedef2oo8]

Odd he’s in front of a camera , I thought dopey said they aren’t allowed to ? Ohhh I guess when they know the questions in advance and their “lawyer” types up answers it’s ok.

[Onepocketj]

Originally Posted by tonedef2oo8

Odd he’s in front of a camera , I thought dopey said they aren’t allowed to ? Ohhh I guess when they know the questions in advance and their “lawyer” types up answers it’s ok.

That video was well before he had a lawyer.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by Card Love

BTW This got 20 months in jail for altering 1 card 30yrs ago! So where does that leave PWCC and Moser?

https://www.beckett.com/news/bill-ma...ederal-prison/

Jail time for shilling, not altering.

[Card Love]

Originally Posted by tonedef2oo8

Odd he’s in front of a camera , I thought dopey said they aren’t allowed to ? Ohhh I guess when they know the questions in advance and their “lawyer” types up answers it’s ok.

Yes but he still reveals allot and says things that reflect super poorly on him. Def a bad decision for him to go on camera.

[Card Love]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

Jail time for shilling, not altering.

Wow, I thought it was the other way around. I keep hearing about altering but PWCC was heavily involved with shilling also no? I would be surprised if no jail time. He must be shitting bricks. I wonder how many cards we are up to now? And how many refunds so far?

[tonedef2oo8]

Originally Posted by Onepocketj

That video was well before he had a lawyer.

I see. So basically all the BS he dropped about its time it comes to light and we act “mature” about this changed when he lawyered up and the fbi came knocking. Which means as we all know his and his bosses (his wife) word is worthless. And he only felt like this when exposed, odd he didn’t see any issues before this was exposed, yet didn’t take this “mature” stance until busted.


What a weasel.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by Card Love

Wow, I thought it was the other way around. I keep hearing about altering but PWCC was heavily involved with shilling also no? I would be surprised if no jail time. He must be shitting bricks. I wonder how many cards we are up to now? And how many refunds so far?

Altering isn't a crime.

Shilling is.

Altering with the intent to defraud (very tough to prove) is a crime, but it's just fraud. Maestro was jailed because of his shilling of his auctions. Did 5 months and who really knows how much money he cost people in entirety.

[Card Love]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

Altering isn't a crime.

Shilling is.

Altering with the intent to defraud (very tough to prove) is a crime, but it's just fraud. Maestro was jailed because of his shilling of his auctions. Did 5 months and who really knows how much money he cost people in entirety.

Ok, thx for the clarification. The altering still makes me sick regardless and the schilling is just downright scummy. So has Brent addressed the schilling? I watched the entire video and not a word on schilling just addressed the restoration angle...

[SetBuilder]

PSA Cert# 42556435

Card: T206 Piedmont 350-460/25, Vic Willis, Batting.

Alterations: Surface flaw repaired, cleaned, corners lightly worked.

• Yellow circles are the common print marks/flaws between both cards.

• Blue boxes show repair of surface flaw and removal of stain.

• Red boxes show the corners visibly altered.

*This alteration is very subtle, but you can see two very light horizontal surface flaws below Willis’ chin. Those two flaws are greatly minimized on the re-graded example. There is also a small circular stain to the right of the streaks that was removed completely. The corners show very small differences as well.

Sold by PWCC (as a PSA 5) on March 12, 2017 for $308.03 to Moser's whitman111 account.

Description: “Nicely centered with crisp edges. Faint corner wear and a tiny spot of surface wear is all that prevents a higher grade.”

Re-sold by PWCC (as a PSA 6) on May 8, 2019 for $810 with “PWCC-E” sticker.

Description: “Strong T206 Willis w/ Bat variant on the market this month. This card is beautiful throughout and is as close to a NRMT copy as you can get. They don't get much better than this. An exceedingly light touch to the extreme upper right is all that keeps from grading higher.” (no mention of surface wear.)

Gain: $501.97


Links:
Before: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1435708
After: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1973727


Fronts:



Backs:

[Batpig]

This has probably been pointed out before, but the high percentage of stickers that Brent put on altered cards seems to indicate he had more than just a consignment fee interest in those cards. Why give “Moser” cards such a disproportionate number of stickers unless you’re benefiting from those more than a typical consignment?