2015 Prospect Rush Draft Hit Parade

[chezball]

Will won't be anywhere near the National.

[chezball]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Also very true. Depending on the value of the item, companies who offer these kinds of promotions allow the winner to receive the item tax free.

Been a few weeks since this question was posed to Will; can anyone reach out with the follow-up?

info@prospectrush.com have at it,doubt he'll even get back to you.

[RYBOWSKI97]

Originally Posted by chezball

Will won't be anywhere near the National.

well if hes done with the hobby why would he show up there? unreal people are still debating what happened with him when it was obvious what he was doing all along. my guess is he comes up with another user name or has a buddy sell his leftovers on boards like blowout for him cause it sure seems like he will have alot of prouduct left.

[green4407]

Originally Posted by trixstar

You can tell yourself that all you want but you're full of sh&t. It's an entry into a lottery for a specific item, nothing less nothing more.

Nope it's a ticket that gives 5 people additional baseball cards from the product they purchased. One of those 5 people will have a box that contains a Bryant superfractor.

Originally Posted by Addison

I'm on the side of reason and law.

You won't provide any support other than your opinion. Actual tax research would involve looking at the code, the regulations and prior case law at a minimum to be able to form an opinion on the tax consequences. You'll learn that when you get to masters classes in taxation.

My guess is there is nothing specifically in the tax code and regulations that would make this a clear answer. Prior tax court cases would be your best authority to find some situation that is similar and determine what the court decided.

Just to be clear, I don't know whether it is a raffle or a part of the product and I don't plan on spending the hours of research it would take to formulate an educated opinion. If PR didn't have his CPA and attorney figure out all of the tax and legal implications before all of this he sure should have. That would be poor business planning.

[MeetJSquared]

Originally Posted by green4407

If PR didn't have his CPA and attorney figure out all of the tax and legal implications before all of this he sure should have. That would be poor business planning.

I think it's clear that he didn't have this sorted out prior, and it's looking like he still doesn't have it figured out.

Either that or he's lying. Neither are good looks.

[Addison]

Originally Posted by green4407

Nope it's a ticket that gives 5 people additional baseball cards from the product they purchased. One of those 5 people will have a box that contains a Bryant superfractor.



You won't provide any support other than your opinion. Actual tax research would involve looking at the code, the regulations and prior case law at a minimum to be able to form an opinion on the tax consequences. You'll learn that when you get to masters classes in taxation.

My guess is there is nothing specifically in the tax code and regulations that would make this a clear answer. Prior tax court cases would be your best authority to find some situation that is similar and determine what the court decided.

Just to be clear, I don't know whether it is a raffle or a part of the product and I don't plan on spending the hours of research it would take to formulate an educated opinion. If PR didn't have his CPA and attorney figure out all of the tax and legal implications before all of this he sure should have. That would be poor business planning.

A person with a degree in underwater basket-weaving can plainly see that this is a raffle/lottery. Will even says on his site: http://www.prospectrush.com/index.ph...tegory&path=69

The Kris Bryant Super Auto will be given away by way of a draw at the National in Chicago. Inside Rush boxes are (5) Rush tickets, one lucky winner will be randomly chosen in August live on the show floor.

The Kris Bryant is a prize; there are prize(s) given to the winner(s) of this lottery/game of chance/raffle. With prizes, particularity ones valued in the 10s of thousands, you better be filing the correct forms and seeing as how he can't answer the tax question after being asked weeks ago, yes poor planning indeed. It is flat out foolish to argue this is just another tax-less hit.

[THE(NEXT)LEVEL]

Originally Posted by green4407

So your authority is your opinion. This is not a lottery or raffle, it is people purchasing a product. At least that's how I would try to treat it if this were my client. I'd also argue against pr if my client hit the bryant and received a 1099. You sound like you should get a job as an irs auditor.

I agree. I see it as PR spent let's say 200k(just using this number as hypothetical) on cards for his product. The cost of the Bryant and all other cards are spread out amount the total production run. Each ticket holder wins something and one gets the Bryant, but this isn't in addition to what his initial 200k was, it is part of it, so I don't see how a 1099 can be given.

[DaveTaplin]

Can someone smarter than me read this article and find any court rulings stemming from suits? If a legal determination of lottery / redemption / Whackamole is needed this may be the legal basis for the argument.


Suit Claims Pokemon Is Lottery, Not Just Fad - NYTimes.com

[Addison]

Originally Posted by Addison

If you don't know anything about taxes or accounting (which you have demonstrated) please don't post in this thread and do a disservice to others that may be financially tied to this product.

Originally Posted by THE(NEXT)LEVEL

I agree. I see it as PR spent let's say 200k(just using this number as hypothetical) on cards for his product. The cost of the Bryant and all other cards are spread out amount the total production run. Each ticket holder wins something and one gets the Bryant, but this isn't in addition to what his initial 200k was, it is part of it, so I don't see how a 1099 can be given.

My post (#4390) to you couldn't be more relevant here.

[MeetJSquared]

Originally Posted by THE(NEXT)LEVEL

I agree. I see it as PR spent let's say 200k(just using this number as hypothetical) on cards for his product. The cost of the Bryant and all other cards are spread out amount the total production run. Each ticket holder wins something and one gets the Bryant, but this isn't in addition to what his initial 200k was, it is part of it, so I don't see how a 1099 can be given.

Why does it matter how much he spent on the product? That's irrelevant.

So you're saying that if I create a product and the total value doesn't exceed what I spent, I can give away up to the difference (in cards/money/cars/boats/whatever) with no tax implications?

So if Topps or Panini gave away 5 tickets in any product (say NT or Five Star), giving away a minimum of $1000 in cards/prizes, with one of the winners getting a brand new car, you don't think the winner (or Topps/Panini) would be on the hook for the tax of the 'prize'?

[green4407]

Originally Posted by MeetJSquared

I think it's clear that he didn't have this sorted out prior, and it's looking like he still doesn't have it figured out.

Either that or he's lying. Neither are good looks.

Yes I agree completely.

Originally Posted by Addison

A person with a degree in underwater basket-weaving can plainly see that this is a raffle/lottery. Will even says on his site: What's Prospect Rush?

So the tax code is logical now? I believe you're an accounting major right? If so you should know by now that what seems obvious to someone who doesn't speak tax/accounting language is usually not so obvious to those who understand tax law. If not, again you'll learn that in masters classes.

The Kris Bryant is a prize; there are prize(s) given to the winner(s) of this lottery/game of chance/raffle. With prizes, particularity ones valued in the 10s of thousands, you better be filing the correct forms and seeing as how he can't answer the tax question after being asked weeks ago, yes poor planning indeed. It is flat out foolish to argue this is just another tax-less hit.

I do agree his wording on the website and in the op sound like someone is winning a raffle. I believe that is poor planning and he should have consulted with advisors before publishing everything.

It is flat out foolish to argue that this is a simple tax scenario without doing the proper research.

Originally Posted by THE(NEXT)LEVEL

I agree. I see it as PR spent let's say 200k(just using this number as hypothetical) on cards for his product. The cost of the Bryant and all other cards are spread out amount the total production run. Each ticket holder wins something and one gets the Bryant, but this isn't in addition to what his initial 200k was, it is part of it, so I don't see how a 1099 can be given.

I agree, but his wording of "winning" does leave himself open to this being classified as a raffle. Hope he has smart advisors working with him.

[THE(NEXT)LEVEL]

Originally Posted by MeetJSquared

Why does it matter how much he spent on the product? That's irrelevant.

So you're saying that if I create a product and the total value doesn't exceed what I spent, I can give away up to the difference (in cards/money/cars/boats/whatever) with no tax implications?

So if Topps or Panini gave away 5 tickets in any product (say NT or Five Star), giving away a minimum of $1000 in cards/prizes, with one of the winners getting a brand new car, you don't think the winner (or Topps/Panini) would be on the hook for the tax of the 'prize'?

No because the value of the Bryant is nebulous. I would assume PR only has to state a cost of goods total for his product, and not have to break it down. If he is running a business and reporting taxes, the total number is all that matters, he doesn't have to show each individual card's value(gross/net).

[MeetJSquared]

Originally Posted by THE(NEXT)LEVEL

No because the value of the Bryant is nebulous. I would assume PR only has to state a cost of goods total for his product, and not have to break it down. If he is running a business and reporting taxes, the total number is all that matters, he doesn't have to show each individual card's value(gross/net).

I guess it depends how you view it then. If you see it as a raffle (like I do), I would think only the value of the Bryant (and other 4 prizes) matters.

[MeetJSquared]

Originally Posted by green4407

So your authority is your opinion. This is not a lottery or raffle, it is people purchasing a product. At least that's how I would try to treat it if this were my client. I'd also argue against pr if my client hit the bryant and received a 1099. You sound like you should get a job as an irs auditor.

How does that work? My question still isn't answered. I would like to know at least a scenario of what might happen on the day of the raffle.

If it's given, doesn't the 1099 have to be filled before receiving the prize? So if you win, you have to hire a tax lawyer, fight with PR (assuming they gave you a 1099) and/or the IRS, and go through more money and time before you even get the card?

[preakness]

Predicting monster pulls tonight including a solid Nola and decent Bryant

[CubsFanInTX]

Originally Posted by MeetJSquared

How does that work? My question still isn't answered. I would like to know at least a scenario of what might happen on the day of the raffle.

If it's given, doesn't the 1099 have to be filled before receiving the prize? So if you win, you have to hire a tax lawyer, fight with PR (assuming they gave you a 1099) and/or the IRS, and go through more money and time before you even get the card?

1099s are not given at the time of receiving the prize, payment, whatever. They have to be out the door by the end of Jan the next year. The only thing the government cares about is the gross that that individual received. Meaning of the Bryant is valued at$50K then a 1099 form should be submitted to the IRS for that amount.

This 1099 information is coming from my experience in the Oil and Gas industry. This may not be exactly the same for prizes. PR may need to take down the individuals tax information at the national, we already have that info when paying their royalties.

I still think this is a prize, don't care if it's a raffle or not. You would be required to pay taxes if they had put 5 keys and one started a car.

[green4407]

Originally Posted by MeetJSquared

How does that work? My question still isn't answered. I would like to know at least a scenario of what might happen on the day of the raffle.

If it's given, doesn't the 1099 have to be filled before receiving the prize? So if you win, you have to hire a tax lawyer, fight with PR (assuming they gave you a 1099) and/or the IRS, and go through more money and time before you even get the card?

If PR determines that the person that gets the Bryant won a prize, then he would have the winner fill out a Form W-9 that he will then use to issue a 1099 and mail to you at the end of the year. If the person who "won" the Bryant was my client I'd want to speak with PR's accountant to figure out how they determined it was a prize and not part of the goods purchased. But yes, if he issues a 1099 then it is presumed taxable income and you'd probably need to go to tax court (and pay a lot of professional fees) if you wanted to fight it. It would probably be more beneficial just to sell the card and pay your tax. Some people don't care though, they will pay more just to fight the IRS based on principle.

[MeetJSquared]

Originally Posted by CubsFanInTX

1099s are not given at the time of receiving the prize, payment, whatever. They have to be out the door by the end of Jan the next year. The only thing the government cares about is the gross that that individual received. Meaning of the Bryant is valued at$50K then a 1099 form should be submitted to the IRS for that amount.

This 1099 information is coming from my experience in the Oil and Gas industry. This may not be exactly the same for prizes. PR may need to take down the individuals tax information at the national, we already have that info when paying their royalties.

I still think this is a prize, don't care if it's a raffle or not. You would be required to pay taxes if they had put 5 keys and one started a car.

Gotcha. Think I'm confusing the 1099 (end of year) with a W2-G or similar form (at the time of winning).

Shows how little I know about this stuff, and exactly why I just get all my stuff together and have my accountant take care of most things when tax season comes around.

[green4407]

Originally Posted by MeetJSquared

Gotcha. Think I'm confusing the 1099 (end of year) with a W2-G or similar form (at the time of winning).

Shows how little I know about this stuff, and exactly why I just get all my stuff together and have my accountant take care of most things when tax season comes around.

Yep, a W-2G is for gambling winnings and they take your info and issue you the form right there on the spot.

[whattheblood]

You could always invest in a good fake Id/social if your a KB Scratch off ticket winner and stick it to the man.

[philhjr1]

Originally Posted by green4407

If PR determines that the person that gets the Bryant won a prize, then he would have the winner fill out a Form W-9 that he will then use to issue a 1099 and mail to you at the end of the year. If the person who "won" the Bryant was my client I'd want to speak with PR's accountant to figure out how they determined it was a prize and not part of the goods purchased. But yes, if he issues a 1099 then it is presumed taxable income and you'd probably need to go to tax court (and pay a lot of professional fees) if you wanted to fight it. It would probably be more beneficial just to sell the card and pay your tax. Some people don't care though, they will pay more just to fight the IRS based on principle.

Well that's not entirely true about the 1099's and taxes.....some states make you pay the taxes upfront before they let you walk out with the prize(s).....in this case it would be whatever IL's tax law is.....for instance I won some cash/prizes from a game show while in CA, and their tax law makes you pay the tax up front before letting you walk out the door, perhaps that was because I was a non resident, but I'm pretty sure it's just CA tax law to get the taxes paid up front first.

[preakness]

Originally Posted by preakness

Predicting monster pulls tonight including a solid Nola and decent Bryant

turns out a 10-10 Nola auto and a couple Bryant non autos
(maybe that mystery will be something KB too?)

totally understand reasoning why so much from this year draft but would be cool to have more past years as well

[green4407]

Originally Posted by philhjr1

Well that's not entirely true about the 1099's and taxes.....some states make you pay the taxes upfront before they let you walk out with the prize(s).....in this case it would be whatever IL's tax law is.....for instance I won some cash/prizes from a game show while in CA, and their tax law makes you pay the tax up front before letting you walk out the door, perhaps that was because I was a non resident, but I'm pretty sure it's just CA tax law to get the taxes paid up front first.

Well yes that is true, I wonder how many dealers at the convention register as retailers, collect IL sales tax, and file IL income and sales tax returns as they are required to do?

From Illinois Publication 113:

Who must register as a retailer?
You must register with us as a retailer if you “do business” in
Illinois and you sell “tangible personal property” at retail. You “do
business” in Illinois if you
have a business site in Illinois, such as a store; or
have, within Illinois,
an office or an agent or other representative operating in
this state, even if it is occasionally, or
a place from which you deliver or produce a product (e.g., a warehouse), or
sell items at craft shows, fairs, seminars, conventions, etc. in Illinois;

[philhjr1]

Originally Posted by green4407

Well yes that is true, I wonder how many dealers at the convention register as retailers, collect IL sales tax, and file IL income and sales tax returns as they are required to do?

From Illinois Publication 113:

Who must register as a retailer?
You must register with us as a retailer if you “do business” in
Illinois and you sell “tangible personal property” at retail. You “do
business” in Illinois if you
have a business site in Illinois, such as a store; or
have, within Illinois,
an office or an agent or other representative operating in
this state, even if it is occasionally, or
a place from which you deliver or produce a product (e.g., a warehouse), or
sell items at craft shows, fairs, seminars, conventions, etc. in Illinois;

I would hope that everyone setting up at the national to sell items would track their sales and register and file their various tax returns with IL as required. I know that NYS makes you fully register as a sales tax vendor and file the appropriate quarterly sales tax return. They stopped allowing temporary/show vendor registrations and returns several years ago. I haven't looked into NJ's tax laws yet, but since most mirror NYS, I would assume they would be the same. Just something else for sellers to think about durning the show.

EDIT: I haven't checked the official national website, but I would hope that the organizer of the event would put the proper tax doc/info somewhere on the site to help out the prospective vendors.

[HadWayTooMuch]

I'm getting a kick out of all the people that act like they will be offended if someone doesn't pay sales tax. I do, as I have a tax number, a store, etc and filed at the end of the year even before my store but...

Come on, like anyone really cares if someone on ebay files taxes or not. The main reason someone should file is if they don't, they could be up the creek without a paddle if they are caught.

But other than that, a guy whole does $5000 on ebay selling his extra stuff isn't affecting my life if he reports it or not. Hell, so many big businesses cheat on their taxes, that is what makes our lives so much more difficult, not a dude who didn't report his $2000 ebay sales.