PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by pspa123

Until recently he sure pretended to be all about the good of the hobby, though. Tenets, indeed. Or in keeping with my calling him the Wizard of Oswego, tenets and assets and vaults, oh my.

Heh, now the Master of Trimmers is working with the FBI, trying to save his a**.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Batpig

He cut an insane amount off of that one.

“Taking My Hacks: Whack Jobs – The Issue of Card Trimming”

Joe Orlando (January 20, 2004)

“Today, there are those who are still [trimming cards]. Some of them are butchers and some of them are master artists, but it doesn't, in any way, change the approach of PSA graders. The tools have changed in some cases and the skill level of the whackers has heightened but so has the awareness of our experts -- that's what they are paid to do -- and that's why people have so much faith in the PSA process.”

“The biggest point of confusion with trimming comes when a collector notices a card that is slightly undersized -- even in the PSA holder. I hear the cries, "That card looks small, it must be trimmed -- trimmed I say!" Nothing could be further from the truth. Is size one factor that may tip off a grader that a card could be altered? Of course -- but size alone, in this case, does not matter.”

“I can remember opening vending cases from the early 1970s where the cards came in a variety of sizes. Pre-war cards, especially, were cut very inconsistently. To most, the size differences are subtle but when placed in a holder, the card's size is more apparent. My point here is simple. Cards can come in different sizes straight from the factory -- straight out of the pack -- straight from a vending case. Experienced hobbyists know this but many do not.”

“Just as in the everyday world of criminal justice, it's up to the authorities to keep up with or stay a step ahead of the criminals in order to prevent crime and catch them. As the world's sportscard grading authority, we take the same approach and will accept nothing less from our staff.”

https://www.facebook.com/SportsCardR...6614815279007/

[geomon]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

PSA Cert# 25932807

Card: 1911 M110 Sporting Life Cabinets, Honus Wagner.

Alterations: Bleached.

This one really pisses me off. He bleached the color right off the damn card. He ruined it.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

“Taking My Hacks: Whack Jobs – The Issue of Card Trimming”

Joe Orlando (January 20, 2004)

“Today, there are those who are still [trimming cards]. Some of them are butchers and some of them are master artists, but it doesn't, in any way, change the approach of PSA graders. The tools have changed in some cases and the skill level of the whackers has heightened but so has the awareness of our experts -- that's what they are paid to do -- and that's why people have so much faith in the PSA process.”

“The biggest point of confusion with trimming comes when a collector notices a card that is slightly undersized -- even in the PSA holder. I hear the cries, "That card looks small, it must be trimmed -- trimmed I say!" Nothing could be further from the truth. Is size one factor that may tip off a grader that a card could be altered? Of course -- but size alone, in this case, does not matter.”

“I can remember opening vending cases from the early 1970s where the cards came in a variety of sizes. Pre-war cards, especially, were cut very inconsistently. To most, the size differences are subtle but when placed in a holder, the card's size is more apparent. My point here is simple. Cards can come in different sizes straight from the factory -- straight out of the pack -- straight from a vending case. Experienced hobbyists know this but many do not.”

“Just as in the everyday world of criminal justice, it's up to the authorities to keep up with or stay a step ahead of the criminals in order to prevent crime and catch them. As the world's sportscard grading authority, we take the same approach and will accept nothing less from our staff.”

https://www.facebook.com/SportsCardR...6614815279007/

Was this from a Saturday Night Live skit?

[SetBuilder]

SGC Cert# 3586258

Card: 1909 E95 Philadelphia Caramel, Ty Cobb.

Alterations: Bleached.

• Yellow circles are the common print marks/flaws between both cards.

• Blue boxes show the stains removed on the front of the card.

The back of this card has changed to such a degree that it felt comparable to identifying remains through dental records. I did my best to enhance the shadows so that the shape of the stains can be compared. On the left side, beginning to the right of the "20.", the stain is still visible going around in a semi-circular pattern and ending below and to the left of the number "23." On the front, the match is much more conclusive. The small divot to the edge of the left border is in the same place on both cards, and the top left and bottom right corners are the same shape. The centering is also the same. The staining along the left border that was removed by the bleaching is also barely visible in the post-alteration scan. I am 100% certain this is the same card.

Sold by Mile High Auctions (as an SGC 20/1.5) on March 23, 2018 for $1,703.98 to an unknown buyer.

Then sold by PWCC (as a SGC 3.5) on September 9, 2018 for $3,389 with "PWCC-PQ" sticker.

Gain: $1,685.02


Links:
Before: http://www.milehighcardco.com/1909_P...LOT53996.aspx#
After: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1738981

Fronts:


Backs:


Backs color adjusted:

[Giancarlo27]

Keep up the great work BODA. This will literally never end, there are tens of thousands more altered cards out there waiting to be outed. If only the market reflected the ineffectiveness of PSA

[superdan49]

The info on foxing is appreciated. Thanks SB.

[HarryLime]

This is an extraordinary reference for identifying and authenticating photographs in all forms -- CDVs, cabinets, postcards, Type Is -- and will teach you what happens to paper under certain circumstances. The author is a collector so it takes a baseball turn toward the bottom. Everybody should at least bookmark it, if not go through it and educate yourself on what to look for in older items.

http://www.cycleback.com/photoguide/

Arthur

[dustin42]

I think PSA is retaliating against me for posting on here, twitter, and asking critical questions via email. Both my email accounts are now blocked by there server from sending anyone a message at their company. My orders that are processing also are having very odd things happen to them. They also blocked me on Twitter.


This got me blocked.
https://twitter.com/dustin_42/status...03274164772866

Capture by Dustin Lee, on Flickr
Capture2 by Dustin Lee, on Flickr
Capture3 by Dustin Lee, on Flickr

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by dustin42

I think PSA is retaliating against me for posting on here, twitter, and asking critical questions via email. Both my email accounts are now blocked by there server from sending anyone a message at their company. My orders that are processing also are having very odd things happen to them. They also blocked me on Twitter.


This got me blocked.
https://twitter.com/dustin_42/status...03274164772866

Capture by Dustin Lee, on Flickr
Capture2 by Dustin Lee, on Flickr
Capture3 by Dustin Lee, on Flickr

I mean, I don't intend to sound insensitive, but... duh. You're attacking the company and its president but still using their service?

You posted an email on twitter in order to mock and attack them. Which, that's cool if you want to do it but don't expect them to continue to accept emails from you. I mean, what did you think was going to happen?

Arthur

[Bruins1993]

Arthur you sound more like a PSA employee (or unpaid PR agent) everyday on here! Clearly you have a big interest in supporting PSA no matter what the circumstances

Dustin, here is a link to PSA's condescending response:
https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...-retrospective



PS. Just asking Steve Sloan why 00000001 is still certified as NM-MT 8 and in Population report will get your E-mail blocked.

[WallyatJCCards]

Originally Posted by Bruins1993

Arthur you sound more like a PSA employee (or unpaid PR agent) everyday on here! Clearly you have a big interest in supporting PSA no matter what the circumstances

Dustin, here is a link to PSA's condescending response:
https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...-retrospective

Thanks for the link!

[dustin42]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

I mean, I don't intend to sound insensitive, but... duh. You're attacking the company and its president but still using their service?

You posted an email on twitter in order to mock and attack them. Which, that's cool if you want to do it but don't expect them to continue to accept emails from you. I mean, what did you think was going to happen?

Arthur

LOL! You intended to and did. I don't care if they blocked my emails. My orders were in there system already. I am showing what they are willing to do as a company. They are publicly traded. Does the cable company cut your service when you complain to them? No they don't.

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by dustin42

LOL! You intended to and did. I don't care if they blocked my emails. My orders were in there system already. I am showing what they are willing to do as a company. They are publicly traded. Does the cable company cut your service when you complain to them? No they don't.

I have no problem with you voicing your hatred on twitter or via email but it seems a bit hypocritical to then turn around and be a paying customer. But whatever. Must be a generational entitlement thing.

Arthur

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

I have no problem with you voicing your hatred on twitter or via email but it seems a bit hypocritical to then turn around and be a paying customer. But whatever. Must be a generational entitlement thing.

Arthur

They could’ve at least let him know they’re sending his orders back to him ungraded if that is indeed what they are doing. That’s the bare minimum imo.

[dustin42]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

I have no problem with you voicing your hatred on twitter or via email but it seems a bit hypocritical to then turn around and be a paying customer. But whatever. Must be a generational entitlement thing.

Arthur

I am mad at the rotten actors in this industry. They can send my items back. I sent them in before I knew about all the fraud. That generational thing is just great. You old timers all about greed and not caring about the consequences? Hatred? Where was I hateful?

[dustin42]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

They could’ve at least let him know they’re sending his orders back to him ungraded if that is indeed what they are doing. That’s the bare minimum imo.

I don't know what they are doing with them. They haven't reached out to me and I can't get an answer from them.

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

They could’ve at least let him know they’re sending his orders back to him ungraded if that is indeed what they are doing. That’s the bare minimum imo.

Their history of atrocious public communication is well established. I imagine the email was the first thing to go and then it was the orders so whoever did it just didn't want to jump through an extra hoop to send the email.

I have no problem with what either parties did. If you want to light somebody up on social media, go for it. I'm all for people having that ability. But a company has a right to refuse service to that person afterward. I doubt they cared how he was going to feel when he found out, hence, the absence of the email.

Arthur

[Bruins1993]

PSA management (including Steve Sloan and Joe Orlando) have thin skin and want to set an example so other people don't voice their opinions on their failed opinion system!

[Bruins1993]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

I doubt they cared how he was going to feel when he found out, hence, the absence of the email.

Truth clearly hurts PSA!

Another example of them being unprofessional from Top-Down.

[dustin42]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

Their history of atrocious public communication is well established. I imagine the email was the first thing to go and then it was the orders so whoever did it just didn't want to jump through an extra hoop to send the email.

I have no problem with what either parties did. If you want to light somebody up on social media, go for it. I'm all for people having that ability. But a company has a right to refuse service to that person afterward. I doubt they cared how he was going to feel when he found out, hence, the absence of the email.

Arthur

They are giving up $7000 to be petty if this is what they are doing. That is not in the interest of their shareholders. I am not asking for sympathy. So take your generational BS and shove it.

[KhalDrogo]

Pretty ironic that PSA will turn down thousands of dollars in a legitimate sub from a guy because he publicly called them out, but continue to accept subs from bad actors who place the company at significant financial risk because of their actions.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

I have no problem with you voicing your hatred on twitter or via email but it seems a bit hypocritical to then turn around and be a paying customer. But whatever. Must be a generational entitlement thing.

Arthur

So he should just keep quiet. Maybe instead of complaining he should offer PSA ideas on how to improve their service.

Incredible that paying customers shouldnt expect good or great service...

[dustin42]

Originally Posted by mc1

So he should just keep quiet. Maybe instead of complaining he should offer PSA ideas on how to improve their service.

Incredible that paying customers shouldnt expect good or great service...

Yes because they listen so well to customers suggestions...

[dustin42]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Pretty ironic that PSA will turn down thousands of dollars in a legitimate sub from a guy because he publicly called them out, but continue to accept subs from bad actors who place the company at significant financial risk because of their actions.

The only reason I started grading was because that is where they had manipulated the industry and hobby towards. To run a card shop I thought I had to grade. I was wrong. Back to selling raw cards. I will be fine because I am honest and don't sell garbage.