PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc - Page 219

JMDVM · 08-23-2019, 05:20 PM

I am happy to say I am the proud owner of a refund check from PWCC. I received it yesterday, went straight to the bank.

whackadoo · 08-23-2019, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMDVM

I am happy to say I am the proud owner of a refund check from PWCC. I received it yesterday, went straight to the bank.

Which card(s) if you don’t mind me asking? And if you’re willing to divulge.

MoreToppsPlease · 08-24-2019, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMDVM

I am happy to say I am the proud owner of a refund check from PWCC. I received it yesterday, went straight to the bank.

Did you have to sign a non-disclosure agreement?

Would be great to know which card so that we can see if it’s been removed from the registry.

HarryLime · 08-24-2019, 07:43 AM

If they tried to have me sign an NDA I would laugh my balls off. I hope nobody is falling for that.

Arthur

IronMonkey415 · 08-24-2019, 08:14 AM

I'll take it to the press and sing like a canary

SetBuilder · 08-24-2019, 11:44 AM

PSA Cert# 27015716

Card: 1911 M116 Sporting Life, Honus Wagner, Blue Background.

Alterations: Re-colored.

Yellow circles are the common print marks/flaws between both cards.

Blue boxes show re-colored areas.

The re-coloring done to this card is unbelievably apparent when looking at the scan. The area on his hair that once had a white speck of paper loss was colored gray, a color that doesn't even match the area around it. The yellow circular printing flaw in the background is no longer yellow in the post-alteration scan. The yellow layer (seen just above Wagner's right shoulder) is the first step in the color lithographic process and removing it seems impossible without highly caustic chemicals. Re-coloring is the only way it could've suddenly disappeared.

Sold by Heritage Auctions (as a PSA 2) on November 5, 2015 for $2,390 to an unknown buyer.

Then sold by PWCC (as a PSA 3) on June 6, 2017 for $3,951.

Gain: $1,561

Links:
Before: https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...umbnail-071515
After: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1509342

Fronts:

Backs:

superdan49 · 08-24-2019, 11:48 AM

I wonder if the Vault is equipped with a hidden art studio. More conservation of hobby history.

corndog · 08-24-2019, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

The re-coloring done to this card is unbelievably apparent when looking at the scan. The area on his hair that once had a white speck of paper loss was colored gray, a color that doesn't even match the area around it. The yellow circular printing flaw in the background is no longer yellow in the post-alteration scan. The yellow layer (seen just above Wagner's right shoulder) is the first step in the color lithographic process and removing it seems impossible without highly caustic chemicals. Re-coloring is the only way it could've suddenly disappeared.

Gray seems to be the go-to color for this card butcher. Rather than attempt to exact-match a color, he visually minimizes the obvious paper loss with gray. This same technique has been used on multiple outed cards.

Bruins1993 · 08-24-2019, 07:03 PM

Looks like a close match to the background color too!

2010GBPackers · 08-24-2019, 07:04 PM

SetBuilder, you have been a great addition to the team. BO needs to bless you with your own "BODA" badge below your name.

JMDVM · 08-24-2019, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whackadoo

Which card(s) if you don’t mind me asking? And if you’re willing to divulge.

Sure. A 1948 Leaf Sammy Baugh PSA 5 and a 1948 Leaf Van Buren PSA 7. I now have 2 holes in my HOF RC set. I got them at a good price, too. Perhaps other bidders knew something I didn't.

JMDVM · 08-24-2019, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Did you have to sign a non-disclosure agreement?

Would be great to know which card so that we can see if it’s been removed from the registry.

No, they just sent a check from a bank in Delaware. In fact they followed up to make sure I got the check.

pspa123 · 08-24-2019, 11:32 PM

I imagine the Leaf registry sets would be a complete disaster if the trimmed cards were taken out.

Vintagecollect · 08-25-2019, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMDVM

Sure. A 1948 Leaf Sammy Baugh PSA 5 and a 1948 Leaf Van Buren PSA 7. I now have 2 holes in my HOF RC set. I got them at a good price, too. Perhaps other bidders knew something I didn't.

Did Bremt by chance mention....

Unimprovable condition

SetBuilder · 08-25-2019, 09:56 AM

PSA Cert# 27015717

Card: 1895 N300 Mayo's Cut Plug, Cap Anson.

Alterations: Re-colored, damaged.

Yellow circles are the common print marks/flaws between both cards.

Red boxes show additional damage to edges.

Blue boxes show re-colored areas.

This latest N300 Anson was re-colored with a bluish tint to hide paper loss on the back, and additional damage emerged along the borders. Even though the card was bumped up a grade from SGC to PSA, the card resulted in a loss.

Sold by PWCC (as a SGC 10/1) on September 8, 2015 for $2,556 to Moser's whitman111 account.

Description: "Square corners with chipless edges and clear focus of the HOFer Anson. Scrapbook residue and a couple extremely small spots of paper loss on the reverse prevents a higher assessment."

Then re-sold by PWCC (as a PSA 2) on May 7, 2017 for $2,125.

Description: "A highly condition sensitive issue which is rarely seen with such strong card stock, crisp edges, wonderful centering and sharp corners. Boasts many attributes of a PSA 5 with typical scrapbook residue on the reverse." (No mention of paper loss and "chipless edges.")

Loss: $431

Links:
Before: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1155087
After: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1484462

Fronts:

Backs:

SetBuilder · 08-25-2019, 10:29 AM

PSA Cert# 27015718

Card: 1895 N300 Mayo's Cut Plug, John (Monte) Ward.

Alterations: Re-colored, cleaned, damaged.

Yellow circles are the common print marks/flaws between both cards.

Red boxes show additional damage to edges.

Green boxes show cleaned areas.

Blue boxes show re-colored areas.

This card received a similar treatment to the previous N300 Anson in order to reduce paper loss and craquelure on the back, with a bluish tinted pigment of some sort. The front was also cleaned of age-toning, possibly bleached. In the process, additional wear to the right edge emerged.

Sold by PWCC (as a SGC 10/1) on September 8, 2015 for $439.56 to Moser's whitman111 account.

Description: "Sharp and well preserved example for the grade. Scrapbook residue and a couple spots of enamel loss on the front prevent a higher technical assessment. "

Then re-sold by PWCC (as a PSA 2) on May 7, 2017 for $821.

Description: "Nice Ward with square corners, attractive edges and strong card stock. Typical scrapbook damage on the reverse prevents a higher grade. Light paper loss on the reverse is present." (No "enamel loss" to the front is mentioned.)

Gain: $381.44

Links:
Before: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1155106
After: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1484464

Fronts:

Backs:

geomon · 08-25-2019, 02:57 PM

Looks like the coloring and cleaning process caused the edges to fray, resulting in more visible damage. This guy needs to be kicked in the balls.

Vintagecollect · 08-25-2019, 03:42 PM

I kind of smirk everytime I see a loss. However, the gains FAR outweigh the losses.

HarryLime · 08-25-2019, 04:49 PM

Color temperatures seem way off on those Wards.

Arthur

SetBuilder · 08-25-2019, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryLime

Color temperatures seem way off on those Wards.

Arthur

They probably gave it a thorough wash before they applied the blue coloring to the back.

Pink Pussycat · 08-26-2019, 12:16 AM

The recoloring of the Wagner card is so ridiculously obvious. It was the first thing that jumped out at me, even before reading any text within the post.

Talk about PSA turning a blind eye!

Buysellyell · 08-26-2019, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

PSA Cert# 27015716

Card: 1911 M116 Sporting Life, Honus Wagner, Blue Background.

Alterations: Re-colored.

Yellow circles are the common print marks/flaws between both cards.

Blue boxes show re-colored areas.

The re-coloring done to this card is unbelievably apparent when looking at the scan. The area on his hair that once had a white speck of paper loss was colored gray, a color that doesn't even match the area around it. The yellow circular printing flaw in the background is no longer yellow in the post-alteration scan. The yellow layer (seen just above Wagner's right shoulder) is the first step in the color lithographic process and removing it seems impossible without highly caustic chemicals. Re-coloring is the only way it could've suddenly disappeared.

Sold by Heritage Auctions (as a PSA 2) on November 5, 2015 for $2,390 to an unknown buyer.

Then sold by PWCC (as a PSA 3) on June 6, 2017 for $3,951.

Gain: $1,561

Links:
Before: https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...umbnail-071515
After: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1509342

Fronts:

Backs:

the recoloring was obvious. How did PSA not catch that under a black light?

Bruins1993 · 08-26-2019, 10:17 PM

PSA population report for 1915 Cracker Jack:

13,119 total population

PSA 8 and above without qualifiers: 2,694 cards representing 20.54% of total population!

#moneytalks

pspa123 · 08-27-2019, 06:25 AM

Part of the CJ numbers is due to the availability of complete sets in albums at the time from the manufacturer, but that said, I am still skeptical.

KhalDrogo · 08-27-2019, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buysellyell

the recoloring was obvious. How did PSA not catch that under a black light?

PSA can't afford black lights. They can't even afford rulers.

08-24-2019, 11:44 AM	#5456
SetBuilder Member Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Paradise Posts: 376	1911 M116 Sporting Life, Honus Wagner, Blue Background PSA Cert# 27015716 Card: 1911 M116 Sporting Life, Honus Wagner, Blue Background. Alterations: Re-colored. Yellow circles are the common print marks/flaws between both cards. Blue boxes show re-colored areas. The re-coloring done to this card is unbelievably apparent when looking at the scan. The area on his hair that once had a white speck of paper loss was colored gray, a color that doesn't even match the area around it. The yellow circular printing flaw in the background is no longer yellow in the post-alteration scan. The yellow layer (seen just above Wagner's right shoulder) is the first step in the color lithographic process and removing it seems impossible without highly caustic chemicals. Re-coloring is the only way it could've suddenly disappeared. Sold by Heritage Auctions (as a PSA 2) on November 5, 2015 for $2,390 to an unknown buyer. Then sold by PWCC (as a PSA 3) on June 6, 2017 for $3,951. Gain: $1,561 Links: Before: https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...umbnail-071515 After: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1509342 Fronts: Backs:

08-24-2019, 11:48 AM	#5457
superdan49 BODA Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 4,272	I wonder if the Vault is equipped with a hidden art studio. More conservation of hobby history. __________________ Cardboard Detective Emeritus superdan49@protonmail.com — Anonymous Tip-line

08-24-2019, 07:03 PM	#5459
Bruins1993 Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Stuck inside of Mobile Posts: 1,291	Looks like a close match to the background color too! __________________ #nevergetcheated Riiiiiiiiight Last edited by Bruins1993; 08-24-2019 at 07:05 PM.

08-25-2019, 09:56 AM	#5465
SetBuilder Member Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Paradise Posts: 376	1895 N300 Mayo's Cut Plug, Cap Anson PSA Cert# 27015717 Card: 1895 N300 Mayo's Cut Plug, Cap Anson. Alterations: Re-colored, damaged. Yellow circles are the common print marks/flaws between both cards. Red boxes show additional damage to edges. Blue boxes show re-colored areas. This latest N300 Anson was re-colored with a bluish tint to hide paper loss on the back, and additional damage emerged along the borders. Even though the card was bumped up a grade from SGC to PSA, the card resulted in a loss. Sold by PWCC (as a SGC 10/1) on September 8, 2015 for $2,556 to Moser's whitman111 account. Description: "Square corners with chipless edges* and clear focus of the HOFer Anson. Scrapbook residue and a couple extremely small spots of paper loss on the reverse prevents a higher assessment." Then re-sold by PWCC (as a PSA 2) on May 7, 2017 for $2,125.* Description: "A highly condition sensitive issue which is rarely seen with such strong card stock, crisp edges, wonderful centering and sharp corners. Boasts many attributes of a PSA 5 with typical scrapbook residue on the reverse." (No mention of paper loss and "chipless edges.") Loss: $431 Links: Before: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1155087 After: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1484462 Fronts: Backs: Last edited by SetBuilder; 08-25-2019 at 10:01 AM.

08-25-2019, 10:29 AM	#5466
SetBuilder Member Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Paradise Posts: 376	1895 N300 Mayo's Cut Plug, John (Monte) Ward PSA Cert# 27015718 Card: 1895 N300 Mayo's Cut Plug, John (Monte) Ward. Alterations: Re-colored, cleaned, damaged. Yellow circles are the common print marks/flaws between both cards. Red boxes show additional damage to edges. Green boxes show cleaned areas. Blue boxes show re-colored areas. This card received a similar treatment to the previous N300 Anson in order to reduce paper loss and craquelure on the back, with a bluish tinted pigment of some sort. The front was also cleaned of age-toning, possibly bleached. In the process, additional wear to the right edge emerged. Sold by PWCC (as a SGC 10/1) on September 8, 2015 for $439.56 to Moser's whitman111 account. Description: "Sharp and well preserved example for the grade. Scrapbook residue and a couple spots of enamel loss on the front prevent a higher technical assessment. " Then re-sold by PWCC (as a PSA 2) on May 7, 2017 for $821. Description: "Nice Ward with square corners, attractive edges and strong card stock. Typical scrapbook damage on the reverse prevents a higher grade. Light paper loss on the reverse is present." (No "enamel loss" to the front is mentioned.) Gain: $381.44 Links: Before: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1155106 After: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1484464 Fronts: Backs: Last edited by SetBuilder; 08-25-2019 at 10:32 AM.

08-23-2019, 05:20 PM	#5451
JMDVM Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 8	I am happy to say I am the proud owner of a refund check from PWCC. I received it yesterday, went straight to the bank.

08-24-2019, 07:43 AM	#5454
HarryLime Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Spaceball 1 Posts: 4,794	If they tried to have me sign an NDA I would laugh my balls off. I hope nobody is falling for that. Arthur

08-24-2019, 08:14 AM	#5455
IronMonkey415 Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 44,118 ironmonkeyfromsf	I'll take it to the press and sing like a canary

08-24-2019, 07:04 PM	#5460
2010GBPackers Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Milwaukee Posts: 4,282	SetBuilder, you have been a great addition to the team. BO needs to bless you with your own "BODA" badge below your name.

08-24-2019, 11:32 PM	#5463
pspa123 Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 3,729	I imagine the Leaf registry sets would be a complete disaster if the trimmed cards were taken out.

08-25-2019, 02:57 PM	#5467
geomon Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 132 geomon19 geomon	Looks like the coloring and cleaning process caused the edges to fray, resulting in more visible damage. This guy needs to be kicked in the balls.

08-25-2019, 03:42 PM	#5468
Vintagecollect Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 1,122	I kind of smirk everytime I see a loss. However, the gains FAR outweigh the losses. __________________ Signed 1952 topps "You literally asked a question and quoted the answer"

08-25-2019, 04:49 PM	#5469
HarryLime Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Spaceball 1 Posts: 4,794	Color temperatures seem way off on those Wards. Arthur

08-26-2019, 12:16 AM	#5471
Pink Pussycat Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 595	The recoloring of the Wagner card is so ridiculously obvious. It was the first thing that jumped out at me, even before reading any text within the post. Talk about PSA turning a blind eye!

08-26-2019, 10:17 PM	#5473
Bruins1993 Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Stuck inside of Mobile Posts: 1,291	PSA population report for 1915 Cracker Jack: 13,119 total population PSA 8 and above without qualifiers: 2,694 cards representing 20.54% of total population! #moneytalks __________________ #nevergetcheated Riiiiiiiiight Last edited by Bruins1993; 08-26-2019 at 10:27 PM.

08-27-2019, 06:25 AM	#5474
pspa123 Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 3,729	Part of the CJ numbers is due to the availability of complete sets in albums at the time from the manufacturer, but that said, I am still skeptical.