PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc

[Bruins1993]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

Beckett openly grades sheet cut cards. They'll tell you so.

But wait, what's the difference between a sheet cut card and a trimmed card?

Exactly. One of the reasons I don't buy Beckett graded cards (especially for issues that uncut sheets are readily available for, like 1990s and earlier).

Arthur

He sells PSA graded cards

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by Bruins1993

He sells PSA graded cards

He was talking about Beckett grading sheet cut cards in the past. If you read the quote slowly you'll understand.

Arthur

[Bruins1993]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

He was talking about Beckett grading sheet cut cards in the past. If you read the quote slowly you'll understand.

Arthur

Arthur, Enjoy your love affair with Steve Sloan while it lasts!

Originally Posted by pip

Then Jason Martin began to experiment with trimming and adding fake rough cuts like Moser. PSA has graded a lot of his hatchet jobs.

[4softcorners]

I have been a hardcore collector of high grade OPC baseball for a long time. A few years ago, I saw several 1978 OPC baseball PSA 10’s come up for sale from Martin-Sports on eBay. These, to this day, were some of the nicest late 70’s OPC cards I had ever saw. I wish I had saved images of them.
Anyhow, he had them listed as BIN/OBO and I quickly made offers to which he accepted rather quickly. I paid and all was well. After about 3 weeks of not receiving my cards, (there was 5 if I remember right), I messaged him as his tracking was bogus and never updated. He quickly replied and refunded almost immediately with no issues. He said they were probably lost. They were never listed on eBay again that I know of...was just a bizarre experience and finding out what I am now about this guy, I’m glad these cards aren’t in my collection as they were most likely tampered with.

Thanks to everyone for bringing these guys to light and for exposing these issues.

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by pip

Yes. This is accurate. Jason Martin started out by buying uncut sheets, trimming them, and sending the cards to Beckett. Beckett was clueless, so they graded virtually all of what he sent. We're talking many thousands of cards. Then Jason Martin began to experiment with trimming and adding fake rough cuts like Moser. PSA has graded a lot of his hatchet jobs.

Originally Posted by Bruins1993

Arthur, Enjoy your love affair with Steve Sloan while it lasts!

That's what my post was referencing, which is why I quoted it. How do you not understand this?

Arthur

[ThoseBackPages]

any FBI news?

[corndog]

I am posting this without knowing who the buyer was or even whether or not the colored in spot can be confirmed 100%. Nevertheless, the card bumped from a PSA 8.5 to a PSA 10 with no noticeable trimming that I can see. I find it hard to believe that one grader would see 8.5 and a year and a half later another grader would see a 10 without something changing on the card. The only way to 100% confirm that color was added is for the card to be in hand. The card is not in a set registry and there is no record of a future sale as a 10. Since the card was purchased from PWCC, the FBI will be able to see who purchased the card and also see if the same person consigned it to Heritage. Nothing nefarious yet - just inconsistent grading by PSA creating a $38,000 profit for someone (at a minimum).

PSA Cert #23300018

1958 Topps Roberto Clemente #52 (white letters) - Population 1 of 2

Value gain of $38,378.01

This card was purchased by masked VCP ID e***a (unknown) from Ebay seller PWCC as a PSA 8.5 for $2,251.99 on October 01, 2013.
PWCC link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/642498

Same card was sold by Heritage Auctions as a PSA 10 for $40,630.00 on May 14, 2015.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...w/65928/PSA/10

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Green box (couldn't use red) identifies possible added color.

[ThoseBackPages]

OH MY!

[ken161]

Corndog, thanks for posting this. Even without 100% certainty, it's important hobbyists be made aware of what is going on with these uber-high-grade cards. I think we can all agree one of the following scenarios took place

a) the card was recolored and/or some other alteration(s) took place
b) there was some sort of inside job where the grader knew the submitter and later received some sort of financial compensation
c) PSA graders are incompetent
d) all of the above


I think the answer is (a) but I could be wrong. In any event, I know Joe Orlando's slogan is "never get cheated," but to be honest, and with apologies to Joe, I would feel cheated if I paid an extra $38K for this card's "bump."

Originally Posted by corndog

I am posting this without knowing who the buyer was or even whether or not the colored in spot can be confirmed 100%. Nevertheless, the card bumped from a PSA 8.5 to a PSA 10 with no noticeable trimming that I can see. I find it hard to believe that one grader would see 8.5 and a year and a half later another grader would see a 10 without something changing on the card. The only way to 100% confirm that color was added is for the card to be in hand. The card is not in a set registry and there is no record of a future sale as a 10. Since the card was purchased from PWCC, the FBI will be able to see who purchased the card and also see if the same person consigned it to Heritage. Nothing nefarious yet - just inconsistent grading by PSA creating a $38,000 profit for someone.

PSA Cert #23300018

1958 Topps Roberto Clemente #52 (white letters) - Population 1 of 2

Value gain of $38,378.01

This card was purchased by masked VCP ID e***a (unknown) from Ebay seller PWCC as a PSA 8.5 for $2,251.99 on October 01, 2013.
PWCC link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/642498

Same card was sold by Heritage Auctions as a PSA 10 for $40,630.00 on May 14, 2015.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...w/65928/PSA/10

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Green box (couldn't use red) identifies possible added color.

[Empty77]

Same. card.

(Besides the back fingerprint and the recolored spot, there's a giant fisheye inside the front capitol "B")

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by Empty77

Same. card.

(Besides the back fingerprint and the recolored spot, there's a giant fisheye inside the front capitol "B")

welcome back

[Rooftop]

I’m thinking all vintage PSA 10’s have been altered in some way

[tconte]

Originally Posted by Rooftop

I’m thinking all vintage PSA 10’s have been altered in some way

I was thinking about this. Wondering how many 10's from the 50's and 60's
were 7's or 8's at one time. It's like the circle of life for cards.....lol....

[MoreToppsPlease]

Plenty of 9s and 10s have already been outed. I can't remember for sure because so many have been posted, but I think some of them were pop 1/1.

[ken161]

Originally Posted by Rooftop

I’m thinking all vintage PSA 10’s have been altered in some way

Perusing the VCP, I noticed outed card doctors buying PSA7 and PSA8 cards left and right. And those are just the guys we know about.

[superdan49]

PSA Cert #:41008269

1953 Bowman Color #104 Luke Easter PSA 5.5 to PSA 6
Alteration types: Trimming
Set Registry status: None

Sold on 12/29/2017 as a PSA 5.5 by eBay seller tayandcoley1977 to whitman111 (Gary Moser's eBay ID) for $54.99
Consigned to PWCC and sold on 4/10/2019 as a PSA 6 for $158.78
Final price: $158.73
Value gain: $103.74


Basic "Moser-style" trim with the artificial rough-cut left edge. Trimmed left edge in red boxes. Green circles are fish eyes and other print markings common to both cards.



PSA 5.5: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...a-5-1907315252
PSA 6: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1957336

[corndog]

I need to get me a '53 Bowman Color. Those are beautiful cards when in their unbutchered original condition.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by corndog

I need to get me a '53 Bowman Color. Those are beautiful cards when in their unbutchered original condition.

I've come to appreciate the '52 Topps Look 'N See set with all its historical personages. A lot of great-looking cards out there from the early 50s.

[pip]

Originally Posted by superdan49

I've come to appreciate the '52 Topps Look 'N See set with all its historical personages. A lot of great-looking cards out there from the early 50s.

Yes, nice set. The problem is that it's very popular with nonsport collectors so an insane number of PSA 9s (and 10s) have been trimmed and altered to meet the insatiable PSA registry demand. Unless a collector really knew his "stuff," it would be challenging to avoid all the altered sh*t that's out there. It's actually really sick. If any set is popular, the card doctors have gotten their greedy little hands all over it. And it won't stop until criminal enterprises like PWCC are severely punished and permanently barred from the hobby.

[pip]

Originally Posted by corndog

I am posting this without knowing who the buyer was or even whether or not the colored in spot can be confirmed 100%. Nevertheless, the card bumped from a PSA 8.5 to a PSA 10 with no noticeable trimming that I can see. I find it hard to believe that one grader would see 8.5 and a year and a half later another grader would see a 10 without something changing on the card. The only way to 100% confirm that color was added is for the card to be in hand. The card is not in a set registry and there is no record of a future sale as a 10. Since the card was purchased from PWCC, the FBI will be able to see who purchased the card and also see if the same person consigned it to Heritage. Nothing nefarious yet - just inconsistent grading by PSA creating a $38,000 profit for someone (at a minimum).

PSA Cert #23300018

1958 Topps Roberto Clemente #52 (white letters) - Population 1 of 2

Value gain of $38,378.01

This card was purchased by masked VCP ID e***a (unknown) from Ebay seller PWCC as a PSA 8.5 for $2,251.99 on October 01, 2013.
PWCC link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/642498

Same card was sold by Heritage Auctions as a PSA 10 for $40,630.00 on May 14, 2015.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...w/65928/PSA/10

[B]Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Green box (couldn't use red) identifies possible added color.

It looks to me like at least two corners have been sharpened. Definitely altered from its original condition.

[pip]

Originally Posted by corndog

I need to get me a '53 Bowman Color. Those are beautiful cards when in their unbutchered original condition.

Have you seen the Pee Wee Reese?

[superdan49]

PSA Cert #:25790445

1953 Bowman Color #40 Larry Doby PSA 5 to PSA 7
Alteration types: Trimming
Set Registry status: None

Sold on 10/7/2015 as a PSA 5 by PWCC to whitman111 (Gary Moser's eBay ID) for $52.00
Consigned to PWCC and sold on 2/8/2017 as a PSA 7 for $167.51
Final price: $167.51
Value gain: $115.51


Another trimmed 1953 Bowman Color mid-grade card sold the whitman111 and brokered through PWCC. There are lots of w***1 buys in '53 Bowman Color still not paired with their "after" photos. Red boxes show areas of trimming. Green circles are print markings common to both cards, showing the PSA 5 and the PSA 7 are one and the same.



PSA 5: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1171706
PSA 7: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1421979

[Bruins1993]

Originally Posted by ken161

I think the answer is (a) but I could be wrong. In any event, I know Joe Orlando's slogan is "never get cheated," but to be honest, and with apologies to Joe, I would feel cheated if I paid an extra $38K for this card's "bump."

Apologies to two-faced Joe "spend as much as you can afford" Orlando?

When are we in store for another Taking my Trimmings edition of Joe slamming collectors for their ignorance to how wonderful PSA is?

Never get cheated Riiiiiiight

[superdan49]

PSA Cert #:41697366

1953 Bowman Color #114 Bob Feller PSA 5 to PSA 5
Alteration types: Trimming
Set Registry status: None

Sold on 8/5/2018 as a PSA 5 by eBay seller just_collect to whitman111 (Gary Moser's eBay ID) for $178.39
Consigned to PWCC and sold on 11/21/2018 as a PSA 5 for $223.50
Final price: $223.50
Value gain: $45.11


No grade gain here for the trimmer, and only a small value gain. Trimmed edges boxed in red. Green circles show common print marks.



PSA 5 Cert #40960799: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...ler-1939872717
PSA 5 Cert #41697366: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1849692

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by pip

It looks to me like at least two corners have been sharpened. Definitely altered from its original condition.

Whenever I see corners having been sharpened/re-made, I always wonder if another card doctor could make them even sharper, LOL.

Also, I don’t recall seeing any examples where edges have been sharpened. Or, b-b/tack holes filled in. I’m sure these have been done ad nauseam, however.