2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[Eckstein197]

Is there anyone besides Trump/his campaign claiming rampant voter fraud (that’s relevant. Random Facebook people don’t count)? Seems like almost all of the republicans are starting to distance themselves from Trump especially since his speech yesterday

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by Eckstein197

Is there anyone besides Trump/his campaign claiming rampant voter fraud (that’s relevant. Random Facebook people don’t count)? Seems like almost all of the republicans are starting to distance themselves from Trump especially since his speech yesterday

Yea I mean everyone (sensible) knows it's over

[GOWIFB]

Originally Posted by Eckstein197

Is there anyone besides Trump/his campaign claiming rampant voter fraud (that’s relevant. Random Facebook people don’t count)? Seems like almost all of the republicans are starting to distance themselves from Trump especially since his speech yesterday

Pretty sure his lapdog Lindsey Graham is supporting massive voter fraud. I think someone else in here said maybe Ted Cruz as well but I haven't really paid attention to him.

[jewcer2k5]

Originally Posted by GOWIFB

Pretty sure his lapdog Lindsey Graham is supporting massive voter fraud. I think someone else in here said maybe Ted Cruz as well but I haven't really paid attention to him.

Cruz was last night on Hannity.

[Jgil316]

Originally Posted by Eckstein197

Is there anyone besides Trump/his campaign claiming rampant voter fraud (that’s relevant. Random Facebook people don’t count)? Seems like almost all of the republicans are starting to distance themselves from Trump especially since his speech yesterday

Well, Cruz and Graham were on Hannity claiming fraud last night.

[GOWIFB]

Assuming that the votes in PA continue to go in Biden's favor and he is president elect I am interested to see how this affects the Senate run offs in GA. Both parties are going to pour a ton of money into the state. Will Trump not being on the ticket hurt the republican candidates or are they going to show up regardless in order to prevent a 50/50 split? If Trump is still in the news and is continuing to fight leading up to the election will that hurt the candidates if people are getting sick of Trump not accepting the results?

[Jgil316]

Bill Barr used this word for protestors during the summer: Sedition

The definition is: conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state or monarch.

Trump's 15 minute speech last night - is the very definition of sedition.

[DegaBama]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Okay, fair enough.

But the question stands. What would it take?

What type of standard is acceptable in counting and recording Covid cases and deaths? And then how many of those would justify mandates or shutdowns? At what point do we accept that we need to ramp things up?

Conversely, at what point do we ease up and consider it a non-issue?

Edit to Add: This is one of Trump's failures, imo. We should've set standards for these things that we couldve all agreed upon long ago. What is a Covid death, how many justify which restrictions, etc. Some of that was done with the reopening plan and positivity rates, but clearly not enough...since we still don't really know how to measure things.

At this point, probably nothing. The data is there. Mask madates do nothing. Lockdowns do nothing. Let people be people and make decisions.

[lionsfan20]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

The thing with fraud is the only person saying it is Trump. I don't see anyone else claiming fraud. There was someone here yesterday telling me to ignore what Trump was saying but again, his words carry a lot of weight with a lot of people in this country. It's downright embarrassing that he is not taking this apparent loss like a grown up.



The fact is there are representatives from both parties observing the counting. They'll be there when the official results come in. And they'll be there to certify said results. Trump is the one pushing this fraud agenda because he knows it's his last chance to hold on to some sort of support. Had he taken this apparent loss like an adult, he'd risk losing these thousands of supporters who will continue to follow him thinking it was a fraud.



I imagine people like Mitch McConnell are even fed up with his antics and can't wit for him to be gone.

Lol this argument makes no sense. People keep saying there is no fraud because Dems are not claiming it. Of course they aren't. They are about to win the presidency. The winning team never claims the game was rigged. I thought that was common sense. That's like the Patriots saying man I'm glad we are winning the super bowl but I'm pretty sure we are cheating lol. To say there is no fraud at all is 100% false. There is literally fraud every single election. It is just a matter of how much and if it would change the outcome. I am pretty confident the amount of fraud is fairly minimal and likely not enough to change the outcome but to say it doesn't exist and completely ignore it is just irresponsible.

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[GOWIFB]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

Well, Cruz and Graham were on Hannity claiming fraud last night.

I am sure the fact that the Republicans held serve or gained seats means nothing to them. Apparently the only fraud that occurred was on one portion of the ballot. It is pretty clear that what happened here was there were just enough Republicans and independents that flipped on Trump, even if it was just a small percentage, that left the country with the result we are appearing to end up with.

[Eckstein197]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

Well, Cruz and Graham were on Hannity claiming fraud last night.

Good to know, I was generally curious. Graham isn’t a surprise but I’m surprised Cruz didn’t distance himself

[Eckstein197]

If the Dems were to throw the election, why wouldn’t they flip the senate too

[GOWIFB]

Originally Posted by lionsfan20

Lol this argument makes no sense. People keep saying there is no fraud because Dems are not claiming it. Of course they aren't. They are about to win the presidency. The winning team never claims the game was rigged. I thought that was common sense. That's like the Patriots saying man I'm glad we are winning the super bowl but I'm pretty sure we are cheating lol. To say there is no fraud at all is 100% false. There is literally fraud every single election. It is just a matter of how much and if it would change the outcome. I am pretty confident the amount of fraud is fairly minimal and likely not enough to change the outcome but to say it doesn't exist and completely ignore it is just irresponsible.

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The issue is the claim of massive organized voter fraud. Yes, pretty much every election you will run into limited situations where there are people that shouldn't have voted, be it intentional or unintentional. And this has happened on both sides, it is not just exclusive to democrats.

[HeadstrongRSS]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

At this point, probably nothing. The data is there. Mask madates do nothing. Lockdowns do nothing. Let people be people and make decisions.

Show us the data. Actual data that shows masks and lockdowns do "nothing". It doesn't exist. Don't confuse masks not being some invincible shield of protection with doing "nothing".

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

At this point, probably nothing. The data is there. Mask madates do nothing. Lockdowns do nothing. Let people be people and make decisions.

Again, people disagree on these points. You say the data is there, they say the same thing, and we just keep circling.

This is Trump's failure on the issue. He failed to define these things, failed to bring consensus as to what even constitutes a Covid death or what type of evidence is required to conclude whether restrictions are effective. Nobody even knows what the standards are.

Constant misinformation coming from everywhere (including Trump) is going to result in these conflicting ideas and the inability to deal with crises.

This is Trump's legacy. He is going to be remembered as a one-term buffoon that failed to lead our country during a crisis and got voted out of office because of it. He is now above even Carter on the list of horrible presidents.

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[Boo]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

I'm starting to think Stacey Abrams is going to run for President in 2024. That or she'd be the running mate of whoever does run on the DNC side. Still sticking with DeSantis as the early GOP candidate. DeSantis/Haley ticket.

LMAO, landslide for the GOP

[CJsHockeyCards]

Originally Posted by Eckstein197

If the Dems were to throw the election, why wouldn’t they flip the senate too

Both Georgia races will be a runoff. If Democrats win both seats, it could be a tie.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54835724

[Eckstein197]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

At this point, probably nothing. The data is there. Mask madates do nothing. Lockdowns do nothing. Let people be people and make decisions.

I already posted numerous scientific studies that prove masks do help slow the spread of coronavirus. Should I repost them for you? And find some more as well?

[thenwhatjk]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

Bill Barr used this word for protestors during the summer: Sedition

The definition is: conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state or monarch.

Trump's 15 minute speech last night - is the very definition of sedition.

Someone deny this

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by Boo

LMAO, landslide for the GOP

Haha that's what I was thinking too.


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[ensbergcollecto]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Again, people disagree on these points. You say the data is there, they say the same thing, and we just keep circling.

This is Trump's failure on the issue. He failed to define these things, failed to bring consensus as to what even constitutes a Covid death or what type of evidence is required to conclude whether restrictions are effective. Nobody even knows what the standards are.

Constant misinformation coming from everywhere (including Trump) is going to result in these conflicting ideas and the inability to deal with crises.

This is Trump's legacy. He is going to be remembered as a one-term buffoon that failed to lead our country during a crisis and got voted out of office because of it. He is now above even Carter on the list of horrible presidents.

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which will only be a result of the media labeling him such. His list of accomplishments is actually quite impressive (and I don't even like the guy). The economy, trade deals, first president in decades to not engage in new conflict, peace deals, etc.

The media reporting has been 90% negative so that is how he will be remembered.

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by lionsfan20

Lol this argument makes no sense. People keep saying there is no fraud because Dems are not claiming it. Of course they aren't. They are about to win the presidency. The winning team never claims the game was rigged. I thought that was common sense. That's like the Patriots saying man I'm glad we are winning the super bowl but I'm pretty sure we are cheating lol. To say there is no fraud at all is 100% false. There is literally fraud every single election. It is just a matter of how much and if it would change the outcome. I am pretty confident the amount of fraud is fairly minimal and likely not enough to change the outcome but to say it doesn't exist and completely ignore it is just irresponsible.

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Calm down, bring it down a notch or two. What I mean is that Trump himself is pushing this, not the GOP or GOP figure heads.

[Jgil316]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

Calm down, bring it down a notch or two. What I mean is that Trump himself is pushing this, not the GOP or GOP figure heads.

Trump is pushing this (has been for months) and his enablers are parroting the same things.

To show and prove fraud, it has to be identified in real time with evidence.

You can not come back days later, when the numbers do not look good for you and say fraud with no evidence.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by ensbergcollecto

which will only be a result of the media labeling him such. His list of accomplishments is actually quite impressive (and I don't even like the guy). The economy, trade deals, first president in decades to not engage in new conflict, peace deals, etc.



The media reporting has been 90% negative so that is how he will be remembered.

Fair...but his list of failures is also quite impressive.

In the end, yes, he will be labeled that not only by the media, but by many members of his own party. They're already dropping him like a hot rock.

I agree, he did some good things. But the balance of good vs not good is heavily against any sort of positive legacy.

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[DegaBama]

Originally Posted by HeadstrongRSS

Show us the data. Actual data that shows masks and lockdowns do "nothing". It doesn't exist. Don't confuse masks not being some invincible shield of protection with doing "nothing".

Sure. Virtually every country.