2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[lietuvalabas]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

A recount, if called for, is absolutely reasonable. An election fraud investigation is also absolutely reasonable if any hint of wrongdoing exists. I think most people just want to get it right.

That being said, there is a standard of reasonableness we can apply.

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sure, and i dont really have any false hopes of him flipping states at this point, he put up a terrific fight and made it a ball game, i love the guy, but ill admit, he did shoot himself in the foot with some of the ways he handled things. personally i think he did his best but he does things his way or no way, and i love him for that but the people have spoken and thats democracy, if it was legit then it is, this is still america.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by lietuvalabas

i mean im certainly not versed in politics nearly as much as many in here, nor do i pretend to be, but what'd they find? i'm not being facetious, genuinely curious.

https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf

448 pages worth of stuff.

[yanksfan1]

Dump of AZ ballots doesn't look good enough for Trump, only gained ~3.5K out of 62K

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by mattglet

Trump's economy was actually Obama's? - It built off of the momentum of the previous administration, yes.

So does that mean Obama's economy was actually Bush's? - This is a disingenuous question. I think you know the actual answer to this.

Or does it only work one way? - Absolutely not. But please feel free to correct me if anything I have posted is incorrect.

Your explanation says it does work one way, while you state that it doesn't. I have no problem giving credit where it is due. But do you think the recovery under Obama had more to do with his policies or more to do with the housing market crash during Bush? As I stated in another post, my 7 year old could have had a successful recovery after that crash. So in essence, it wasn't Obama's. Unless you admit that the current pre-COVID market was Trumps. You can't have it both ways, even if you think you are justifying it in your head.

[Ianhatcher]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Yes. Nothing there says the allegations were false. That simply says they couldn't prove them true. Big difference.

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Which in any court of law means Not Guilty.

[Onepocketj]

Nevada is so pissed no one cares about their votes anymore.

[ucLAkers]

Originally Posted by lionsfan20

Who cares? Trumps an idiot we all know that. He is not even president anymore and he will never even be in politics again. Can we all just shut up about Trump already and move on?

Let's talk about all the great things our new president is going to do. And about how Covid will finally be eradicated now and we can all move on with our lives.

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You first....

[lietuvalabas]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

.

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gotcha really none of those names mean anything to me, wasn't roger stone the one they did kinda dirty and thats why trump got him out?

[lietuvalabas]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf

448 pages worth of stuff.

yeah but i mean didn't they find that trump or his team really had nothing to do with any of it?

[CJsHockeyCards]

https://in.news.yahoo.com/its-a-very...112818679.html

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Well, yeah, sort of.

Bush left a mess. The economy was trash. During the Obama administration it turned around and trended upward.

Trump inherited that upward trend. The economy was actually in pretty good shape in 2017 when Trump took office. And it was trending toward even better days.

It takes more to improve something that is good than it does to improve something that is bad. Yes, the economy was trending up. But that doesn't mean the market/economy would have reached new heights if Hillary had become president. Her differences in taxes and big business would have surely had a different outcome.

[DegaBama]

Originally Posted by ensbergcollecto

When I say media what is mean is the following:

for 2.5 years the media talked daily about the fact that trump colluded with russia. It was proven to be false and yet over half the country still believes it because the media said so.

Trump has denounced white supremacy 20+ times but the media says he refuses to denounce white supremacy so over half the country believes it.

Anything good that he actually did was buried by the media and mostly never talked about. The sad truth is the media has more say is what people believe now than ever before (which shouldn't be the case since we have access to more information than every before).

Just a few of examples.

now, just to clarify, I don't care for trump as a person at all. I do prefer republican policies to democrat but my issue with the media is not that I am a "trump guy"

The media is, by far, the worst problem in this country.

[Zedlaw]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Well, yeah, sort of.

Bush left a mess. The economy was trash. During the Obama administration it turned around and trended upward.

Trump inherited that upward trend. The economy was actually in pretty good shape in 2017 when Trump took office. And it was trending toward even better days.

I'd say Trump's policies began to affect things pretty quickly, though not day 1. Surely by 2018 it had become the Trump economy. And Trump continued the trend set during the Obama years, built upon it even.

But then Covid came and Trump had problems too big for him. Maybe another president could've handled it better, maybe not. But Trump did what he did and the economy did what it did...under Trump.

The bigger problem for both Obama and Trump (Bush too, actually) is debt. Short term injections into the system will result in problems later. Both of them screwed that up for our kids. Measuring economic success is much more than what's going on today.

If you're living well but your credit cards are all maxed out, are you doing well?

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The unfortunate effects of our seesaw politics is we don’t get to impliment long term plans about the budget. Ideally the Democrats would spend higher in a recession and tax more during expansion, while the Republicans would rather not tax and spend at any point. What we get is the spending during the recession and now tax cuts during expansion. Half policies from both parties, equally pulling us away from any semblance of a balanced budget.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf



448 pages worth of stuff.

I think the big takeaways are Cohen, Manafort and Stone.

Manafort was sentenced to I think six years, Cohen 3+ years, and Stone 3 years (which was later commuted by Trump)

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[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by Ianhatcher

Which in any court of law means Not Guilty.

Yes. Including the United States Senate. Not Guilty.

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[pac213up]

It will be interesting to see how fast Republicans and Foxnews move away from Trump.

Overall I think both sides have to be somewhat happy with the results. Republicans avoided the blue wave and had solid results at the State levels and Dems pick up the White House & continue to expand the map into GA, NC, AR, & TX. Also a chance at the Senate in 2 years with GOP defending 20+ seats.

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

The media is, by far, the worst problem in this country.

The media drives the worst problem. But the actual worst problem is the hatred each side has towards each other. No one sees the person on the other side anymore. They only see a color (red/blue), and if it isn't the same as theirs they immediately become filled with hate. That is what is wrong with our country. The "polls" clearly show that when you compare the percentage of people who think they are better off now than they were 4 years ago vs how the voting turned out. It is clear that Biden will become president soley based on half of the countries hate towards Trump. Not half of the countries population believing in Biden. When hate drives actions you have problems. Our country has some very deep problems that go much further than Trump/Biden.

[Astros19]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

It's already a mandate many places. That's close enough to a law imo.

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Thank God your opinion doesn't mean Jack squat.
That's not how it works.

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[MIRRABB]

Originally Posted by lietuvalabas

i mean im certainly not versed in politics nearly as much as many in here, nor do i pretend to be, but what'd they find? i'm not being facetious, genuinely curious.

As someone who didn't vote for Trump either election, I think there are far more questionable things he did than anything investigated during the Mueller investigation. But it wasn't really a witch hunt in the end. Aside from what was posted above about guilty Trump associates, it can largely be summed up by the below:

The investigation culminated with the Mueller Report which concluded that — though the Trump campaign welcomed Russian interference and expected to benefit from it — there was insufficient evidence to bring any conspiracy charges against Trump or his associates.

The Report did not reach a conclusion about possible obstruction of justice, citing a Justice Department guideline that prohibits the federal indictment of a sitting president.

If you read the report it's easy to argue Trump obstructed justice. But Mueller was following Department of Justice guidelines that a sitting President cannot be charged with a crime, for what it's worth.

[premium1981]

Here is what I want to see.

Trump offering to concede the election on the premise that both sides will agree to fix our voting process. How is it possible that I can take a trip to China and make a purchase that immediately shows up in my bank account in the US, but when I vote it takes weeks to show up and be accounted for. Both sides should be able to agree on fixing that.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by lietuvalabas

gotcha really none of those names mean anything to me, wasn't roger stone the one they did kinda dirty and thats why trump got him out?

Yeah sort of.

Manafort was Trump's campaign manager and he was convicted of Conspiracy to defraud the United States government and witness tampering. That was kind of a big deal, imo.

Cohen I think was convicted of campaign finance violations. Still a big deal but not as big as Manafort.

Stone was convicted of things like obstructing justice and lying to feds. Also not as big of a deal as Manafort.


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[Onepocketj]

Originally Posted by pac213up

It will be interesting to see how fast Republicans and Foxnews move away from Trump.

Overall I think both sides have to be somewhat happy with the results. Republicans avoided the blue wave and had solid results at the State levels and Dems pick up the White House & continue to expand the map into GA, NC, AR, & TX. Also a chance at the Senate in 2 years with GOP defending 20+ seats.

A lot of Republicans did right after his press conference last night. See Rubio and Romney - basically told him to stfu and let them count the ballots. It takes time and there isn't any fraud proven yet.

[Callmethevreez]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

So ladies and gentlemen; one interesting sub plot to come out of this is that the Trump Tax cuts may stay. The House lead for Dems plummeted and their ability to pass legislation as a unanimous body is extremely limited.

If all races ended today, the count would be Dems 221 / Reps 214. That will trend closer to Democrats I believe once all votes have finished being counted and will come out a more likely Dems 224 / Reps 211 but that is no where near the current margin of 235/200.

All it would take is for six or seven very middle Dems in very Red states to not want to get rid of the cuts. Very possible.

I will say that JustRachels talk of a tuna/ham sandwich is getting better all the time. If the House has a slight Democrat edge in the house, Republicans keep a slight edge in the Senate then all things considered, the country gets a "soft reset" and both parties now have 4 years (and a midterm election) to figure who they are going to trot out as their favored Presidential nominee. Then its totally on each party to come up with a good, inspiring candidate. If one or both cannot, its totally on that party.

Let this hopeful soft reset get Covid out of the way and get our country back on track. Hopefully states take a good hard look and correct the mess that was counting/tabulating votes and hopefully NeedChapmans is here in 2024 to help give us coverage of the 2024 election. Go America!

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by premium1981

It takes more to improve something that is good than it does to improve something that is bad. Yes, the economy was trending up. But that doesn't mean the market/economy would have reached new heights if Hillary had become president. Her differences in taxes and big business would have surely had a different outcome.

Fair statement.

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[discostu]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

The media is, by far, the worst problem in this country.

It's unfortunate that this is a narrative that many believe.