More fakes from China - PMG, Star Rubies, Plat Medallion

[buybuymj]

I don't think there's a legit issue with MJ's Legacy Row 0 090/150, it was originally BGS 8 which graded in 2013 and sold via PWCC in 2015. If it was another fake example from Taiwan, a) We already would've seen a lot of fake 1996-97 FS Legacy examples since grading date shows it started at least 2013, b) Like many other fake examples, a seller (or a faker) would've tried to sell it by himself instead of sending it to PWCC in the states years ago.











What's more bothering me from this is BGS' poor standard. I know about this set, in some cases when there's slight chippings and white showings, but gray colored fragments are still there and not totally gone, it can be easily fixed by pressing them with your finger, so if that's the case in this card, corner grading could've changed like this and I understand that part as there's no way BGS can figure everything out, but from 7.5 centering to 8.5, that shows they don't even have a manual for that. Not only this but countless other examples. Centering is one of four major parts which has to do with final grade as much as the other three parts, but sometimes they grade centering like they don't even have a measure.

Also to some people they call out sellers from "Asia" with these fake cards, let me be clear. I understand most American people or from other regions are not much interested in Asian geography but we're all from the same planet, otherwise totally different countries depends on how you look at it.

I can tell you that - a) You never seen a seller from South Korea who specializes in selling these fake cards, 2) You not only never seen but even never heard about that, 3) I can guarantee you that there's ZERO person in South Korea who makes these craps to sell and scam people. My country is really small while have one of the best internets in the world, people here wouldn't let that happen. I'm not sure what's going on with other Asian countries but I hope they don't keep looking on those scam artists, enough is enough.

[Deadshot]

Originally Posted by buybuymj

Also to some people they call out sellers from "Asia" with these fake cards, let me be clear. I understand most American people or from other regions are not much interested in Asian geography but we're all from the same planet, otherwise totally different countries depends on how you look at it.

I can tell you that - a) You never seen a seller from South Korea who specializes in selling these fake cards, 2) You not only never seen but even never heard about that, 3) I can guarantee you that there's ZERO person in South Korea who makes these craps to sell and scam people. My country is really small while have one of the best internets in the world, people here wouldn't let that happen. I'm not sure what's going on with other Asian countries but I hope they don't keep looking on those scam artists, enough is enough.

I hate that a group of bad apples has made an entire continent look bad. Thank you for adding this and thank you for your contributions to the boards. I hope you see you post more in the future!

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by buybuymj

Also to some people they call out sellers from "Asia" with these fake cards, let me be clear. I understand most American people or from other regions are not much interested in Asian geography but we're all from the same planet, otherwise totally different countries depends on how you look at it.

Agreed.


While there may and probably do exist some rogue members in other southeast, northern and western areas of Asia, the primary concentration of fake and fraudulent activity centers around China and Taiwan...most notably the Guangdong and Guangzhou provinces. That's where majority of the world's fake stuff is manufactured and developed.

Taiwan and HK becomes major players because many of the people producing the fakes ship or funnel these items to connections in Taiwan in order to get them shipped overseas while lowering the red flags with customs for possible seizures (which is a 100% guarantee if they ship from those areas of China).


Buyer beware.

[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by buybuymj

I don't think there's a legit issue with MJ's Legacy Row 0 090/150, it was originally BGS 8 which graded in 2013 and sold via PWCC in 2015.

Thank you for taking the time to track that down! Seems like both the credentials and the legacy sets are still safe.

I also fully agree with what you're saying about Asia -- the sales are coming specifically from Taiwan and China. There's no more reason to be skeptical about sales from places like Japan/SK than there is about sales from the US.

That being said, I came to this thread to warn about a card which is coincidentally being sold by a South Korean seller. Again, not trying to make a point by posting this, it's pure coincidence. I rarely if ever see fakes being sold out of SK and I assume this card originated in China. Either way, it's fake.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-97-Fle...4AAOSwG8tcvlSq

[deemsterz33]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

Thank you for taking the time to track that down! Seems like both the credentials and the legacy sets are still safe.

I also fully agree with what you're saying about Asia -- the sales are coming specifically from Taiwan and China. There's no more reason to be skeptical about sales from places like Japan/SK than there is about sales from the US.

That being said, I came to this thread to warn about a card which is coincidentally being sold by a South Korean seller. Again, not trying to make a point by posting this, it's pure coincidence. I rarely if ever see fakes being sold out of SK and I assume this card originated in China. Either way, it's fake.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-97-Fle...4AAOSwG8tcvlSq

What are you looking for on these to tell if they're fake?

[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by deemsterz33

What are you looking for on these to tell if they're fake?

Same as all the other fakes -- graphic/text elements on the front and back of the card that were not recreated correctly on the fakes and are 100% consistent on real copies.

[mjrider]

This one from Japan. Do you think it's fake?

[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by mjrider

This one from Japan. Do you think it's fake?
]

Not an expert on that set but since you're asking me, I believe it is fake. From my understanding, the die-cutting on the fakes is rounded, whereas real copies are more square. I believe this is what the real ones look like:

[BruceS]

Originally Posted by buybuymj

I don't think there's a legit issue with MJ's Legacy Row 0 090/150, it was originally BGS 8 which graded in 2013 and sold via PWCC in 2015. If it was another fake example from Taiwan, a) We already would've seen a lot of fake 1996-97 FS Legacy examples since grading date shows it started at least 2013, b) Like many other fake examples, a seller (or a faker) would've tried to sell it by himself instead of sending it to PWCC in the states years ago.











What's more bothering me from this is BGS' poor standard. I know about this set, in some cases when there's slight chippings and white showings, but gray colored fragments are still there and not totally gone, it can be easily fixed by pressing them with your finger, so if that's the case in this card, corner grading could've changed like this and I understand that part as there's no way BGS can figure everything out, but from 7.5 centering to 8.5, that shows they don't even have a manual for that. Not only this but countless other examples. Centering is one of four major parts which has to do with final grade as much as the other three parts, but sometimes they grade centering like they don't even have a measure.

Also to some people they call out sellers from "Asia" with these fake cards, let me be clear. I understand most American people or from other regions are not much interested in Asian geography but we're all from the same planet, otherwise totally different countries depends on how you look at it.

I can tell you that - a) You never seen a seller from South Korea who specializes in selling these fake cards, 2) You not only never seen but even never heard about that, 3) I can guarantee you that there's ZERO person in South Korea who makes these craps to sell and scam people. My country is really small while have one of the best internets in the world, people here wouldn't let that happen. I'm not sure what's going on with other Asian countries but I hope they don't keep looking on those scam artists, enough is enough.

I don´t think that it´s fake as I´ve never seen any problems with these cards yet but to me it seems that this card clearly has been trimmed.
It´s less large on the bottom and when you look carefully at it you will realize that there´s something weird.
You can even measure it by just using the picture and you will get the confirmation.

[buybuymj]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

Thank you for taking the time to track that down! Seems like both the credentials and the legacy sets are still safe.

I also fully agree with what you're saying about Asia -- the sales are coming specifically from Taiwan and China. There's no more reason to be skeptical about sales from places like Japan/SK than there is about sales from the US.

That being said, I came to this thread to warn about a card which is coincidentally being sold by a South Korean seller. Again, not trying to make a point by posting this, it's pure coincidence. I rarely if ever see fakes being sold out of SK and I assume this card originated in China. Either way, it's fake.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-97-Fle...4AAOSwG8tcvlSq

Yes, buying fake happens just like it could happen to anyone from any country, making fake doesn't happen here though.

Look at the following Penny's fake Star Rubies from Japan which is one of the most ridiculous fakes ever made, when you start to read "Hardaway s 20.5 points" on the back you'll be like, "Wait... what?" I'm pretty sure the seller bought it as it is. I'm glad you know what I'm talking about.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/173869418...2047675.l10137


And that's right, MJ's A Cut Above should look like this.

Originally Posted by BruceS

I don´t think that it´s fake as I´ve never seen any problems with these cards yet but to me it seems that this card clearly has been trimmed.
It´s less large on the bottom and when you look carefully at it you will realize that there´s something weird.
You can even measure it by just using the picture and you will get the confirmation.

I'm not sure the MJ's Legacy 090/150's trimmed, it's hard to tell because of glare from PWCC's scans. The chipping on the left bottom corner of the back is pretty noticeable, if you want to trim to remove that you'd need to trim pretty noticeably. "NBA" letters in his gold logo barley seen from both. It's possible though. Either fixed or trimmed, that's for sure.

[Kobefan]

Hi guys, I have a couple questions regarding a few 90s cards:

1. Has there ever been known fakes of Kobe Bryant 97-98 Z-force rave cards? I know there are fake MJs, but the Kobe card isn't as pricey, around $100-$200, so I hope the counterfeiters never bothered with it.
2. I thought about someday completing the 96-97 fleer ultra platinum set, but knowing that there are so much fakes of this set is kinda discouraging, but if I do decide to pursue that goal, can I get a list of players that have known fakes so I can avoiding purchasing those cards until I get expert confirmation in the card's authenticity. I know MJ and Kobe are commonly faked, AI seems to be a likely candidate, but what about Shaq and other lesser value ones? I recently bought a small lot of the non-star players cause I feel that their value are too low for counterfeiter to fake. By knowing which ones have never been faked would help alot in determining which card to buy and which card not to buy at a store or at a convention. Any help is appreciated, if you don't want to post in the public forum, you can pm instead.

[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by Kobefan

Hi guys, I have a couple questions regarding a few 90s cards:

1. Has there ever been known fakes of Kobe Bryant 97-98 Z-force rave cards? I know there are fake MJs, but the Kobe card isn't as pricey, around $100-$200, so I hope the counterfeiters never bothered with it.
2. I thought about someday completing the 96-97 fleer ultra platinum set, but knowing that there are so much fakes of this set is kinda discouraging, but if I do decide to pursue that goal, can I get a list of players that have known fakes so I can avoiding purchasing those cards until I get expert confirmation in the card's authenticity. I know MJ and Kobe are commonly faked, AI seems to be a likely candidate, but what about Shaq and other lesser value ones? I recently bought a small lot of the non-star players cause I feel that their value are too low for counterfeiter to fake. By knowing which ones have never been faked would help alot in determining which card to buy and which card not to buy at a store or at a convention. Any help is appreciated, if you don't want to post in the public forum, you can pm instead.

Just to clarify, all the 97-98 Rave /399 cards I've called out in this thread have had fake stamps, but none of them have been outright forgeries. They were printed by fleer and released during the bankruptcy. The only fake part about those cards is the stamping (and the fact they were cut from sheets).

The 97-98 Super Raves have been recreated by forgers from the ground up. As have the 98-99 Raves /150. For those sets, outright forgeries do exist. Mostly of Jordan, Kobe, and Pippen.

There are also many outright fakes of the 1996-97 Ultra Platinum Medallions. The only two players I've seen faked are Jordan and Kobe, but thy seem to have faked all their cards in the set (the Kobe encore card from series 2 has been faked, for instance).

I am very comfortable identifying fake Kobe series 1 and series 2 encore platinum medallion fakes. I've found a few tricks to identify the fake series 1 base Jordan cards, but I haven't even started trying to figure out the other Jordan cards in the set. PSA seems to be pretty on top of the Kobe platinums but I've seen fake Jordan series 1 base platinums in PSA lighthouse holders which makes me think they might not know how to spot that particular fake...

TL;DR: When it comes to 1996-97 platinum all Kobes and Jordans are potentially suspect. 97-98 raves you just have to worry about fake serial numbers. In general, the most common players I've seen faked in other sets are Jordan, Kobe, Duncan, Pippen, Iverson, and Penny.

[rogermaris]

Speaking of which, here's an example of a fake Jordan platinum being sold by our old friend matt88911. He's sold another fake Jordan platinum graded by PSA in the past. Not sure how many he's managed to slip by them...

[SirTommyWinAlot]

Originally Posted by Bulls90s

WOW!!!

eBay should ban all sales from Asia countries..just not right. Damn swindlers!!

bunch of counterfeiters and knockoff professionals there. It was just a matter of time before they entered the fray.

[SirTommyWinAlot]

The grading labels already made their money hand over fist. The spigot can be turned off tomorrow and it won't matter to them. There will be a new scam in the sport card universe called digital card viruses set to steal all your personal info 2 years after purchase.

Junk Wax era/Counterfeit and Trimming scandal era/Digital Card Viruses next era and who knows what comes after that.

[Kobefan]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

Just to clarify, all the 97-98 Rave /399 cards I've called out in this thread have had fake stamps, but none of them have been outright forgeries. They were printed by fleer and released during the bankruptcy. The only fake part about those cards is the stamping (and the fact they were cut from sheets).

The 97-98 Super Raves have been recreated by forgers from the ground up. As have the 98-99 Raves /150. For those sets, outright forgeries do exist. Mostly of Jordan, Kobe, and Pippen.

There are also many outright fakes of the 1996-97 Ultra Platinum Medallions. The only two players I've seen faked are Jordan and Kobe, but thy seem to have faked all their cards in the set (the Kobe encore card from series 2 has been faked, for instance).

I am very comfortable identifying fake Kobe series 1 and series 2 encore platinum medallion fakes. I've found a few tricks to identify the fake series 1 base Jordan cards, but I haven't even started trying to figure out the other Jordan cards in the set. PSA seems to be pretty on top of the Kobe platinums but I've seen fake Jordan series 1 base platinums in PSA lighthouse holders which makes me think they might not know how to spot that particular fake...

TL;DR: When it comes to 1996-97 platinum all Kobes and Jordans are potentially suspect. 97-98 raves you just have to worry about fake serial numbers. In general, the most common players I've seen faked in other sets are Jordan, Kobe, Duncan, Pippen, Iverson, and Penny.

Thanks, now I know what I would buy and what I would avoid in a card show.

[goryotic]

is this real? want to bid but having doubts. want to make sure from the experts here. Thanks!

KG rubies!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-00-Sky...0AAOSwzqdcy1xs

[Kobefan]

Another fake Kobe rookie platinum from the guy who consistently sells fake cards. I'm starting to wonder whether there are any real ones out there:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-97-Ult...frcectupt=true

[chuckerrrr]

Originally Posted by Kobefan

Another fake Kobe rookie platinum from the guy who consistently sells fake cards. I'm starting to wonder whether there are any real ones out there:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-97-Ult...frcectupt=true

The guys who always sells fake yet still has 100% eBay feedback.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kobefan]

Originally Posted by chuckerrrr

The guys who always sells fake yet still has 100% eBay feedback.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He had a negative feedback before. I don't know how or why it was removed.

[pacmon84]

Originally Posted by Kobefan

Another fake Kobe rookie platinum from the guy who consistently sells fake cards. I'm starting to wonder whether there are any real ones out there:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-97-Ult...frcectupt=true

Do we have confirmation that this is 100% fake?

@rogermaris, any thoughts?

[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by pacmon84

Do we have confirmation that this is 100% fake?

@rogermaris, any thoughts?

Kobefan is correct; the platinum medallion is fake.

[COMCMax]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

Kobefan is correct; the platinum medallion is fake.

Yea, she's a no doubter.

[COMCMax]

Originally Posted by Kobefan

He had a negative feedback before. I don't know how or why it was removed.

Amazing they work in getting their feedback expunged as hard as they scamming.

[COMCMax]

Originally Posted by Kobefan

Another fake Kobe rookie platinum from the guy who consistently sells fake cards. I'm starting to wonder whether there are any real ones out there:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-97-Ult...frcectupt=true

Nice eyeballs. Keep it up.