The absurdity of ebay's authenticity guarantee

[JeffG1954]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

“Doesnt match description or photos” includes the condition listed. That’s actually what ebay AG is checking it against. They make sure it’s the correct card titled and shown and in the condition specified. If ebay AG was scouring descriptions to make sure every flaw to be laid out, then none of the AI generic descriptions would pass, and they pass all the time as many people just list a card, upload the pic, assign a condition, and let the description be the AI. Many cards whether AI or not pass when just listed as EX, and nothing else stated. There is subjectivity in grading so it also does matter who is looking at it that particular day.

It sounds like you’re trying to trying to shift focus off of relisting an EX-described card as NM or better without inspecting it first, as if that can’t be the issue. That very well can be the issue, and is what I think the issue probably is here. To repeat, that is not good practice. It is nonsensical for someone to be surprised that the card can be rejected after that.

Some would say this is a case of grade chasing gone wrong from a buyers perspective.

[rwperu34]

Originally Posted by JeffG1954

Some would say this is a case of grade chasing gone wrong from a buyers perspective.

I definitely wouldn't say that, since I am certainly not chasing a grade. I list everything at NM or better because I deal in modern only. Frankly, I pay no attention to the listed condition when buying or selling. If a flaw not noted in the title/photos I'm not going to notice, and sometimes I even miss that! From my buyer's perspective, I wouldn't say it either. This is not a situation where the card isn't a gem and it's being returned. It's a situation where the card really does have a serious flaw...the kind even I, with some of the loosest standards around, would object to.

Like I have said multiple times, the solution is pretty easy for me. I just list everything in EX from now on. I just checked and my #1 and #2 suppliers of inventory both list everything as EX. Those two make up close to half of what I sell. Then I'll go back to completely ignoring the item specifics (like 90+% of people on eBay) and not worrying about it. I still will not be buying raw cards that have to go through AG, at least on the way to me.

[rwperu34]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

“Doesnt match description or photos” includes the condition listed. That’s actually what ebay AG is checking it against. They make sure it’s the correct card titled and shown and in the condition specified. If ebay AG was scouring descriptions to make sure every flaw to be laid out, then none of the AI generic descriptions would pass, and they pass all the time as many people just list a card, upload the pic, assign a condition, and let the description be the AI. Many cards whether AI or not pass when just listed as EX, and nothing else stated. There is subjectivity in grading so it also does matter who is looking at it that particular day.

It sounds like you’re trying to trying to shift focus off of relisting an EX-described card as NM or better without inspecting it first, as if that can’t be the issue. That very well can be the issue, and is what I think the issue probably is here. To repeat, that is not good practice. It is nonsensical for someone to be surprised that the card can be rejected after that.

I think you are purporting to know things that you don't really know. What I do know is if I had so much as put "surfce issue" in the description, it would have passed. The other thing I know is when they say they are checking against the decription, they are checking against the descriptoin. Whether or not the item specifics are counted as a part of the decription is the open question.

[jamcas997]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

“Doesnt match description or photos” includes the condition listed. That’s actually what ebay AG is checking it against. They make sure it’s the correct card titled and shown and in the condition specified. If ebay AG was scouring descriptions to make sure every flaw to be laid out, then none of the AI generic descriptions would pass, and they pass all the time as many people just list a card, upload the pic, assign a condition, and let the description be the AI. Many cards whether AI or not pass when just listed as EX, and nothing else stated. There is subjectivity in grading so it also does matter who is looking at it that particular day.

It sounds like you’re trying to trying to shift focus off of relisting an EX-described card as NM or better without inspecting it first, as if that can’t be the issue. That very well can be the issue, and is what I think the issue probably is here. To repeat, that is not good practice. It is nonsensical for someone to be surprised that the card can be rejected after that.

I sold a card 2 years ago a 3 Auto Relic from Leaf DR J , Magic and Bird. AG said card was not NM and screwed my whole $500 sale. Now remember NM is 7 or better by CGC scale! I send my card a month later to be graded it gets a 9 with 10 auto from SGC and I sell it for $200 more. AG is a joke ! All AG should be determining is the card real or fake or the correct card! Thats just my opinion and since then I have been grading my higher dollar cards to avoid them and grade chasing crybabies.

[jamcas997]

Originally Posted by rwperu34

I definitely wouldn't say that, since I am certainly not chasing a grade. I list everything at NM or better because I deal in modern only. Frankly, I pay no attention to the listed condition when buying or selling. If a flaw not noted in the title/photos I'm not going to notice, and sometimes I even miss that! From my buyer's perspective, I wouldn't say it either. This is not a situation where the card isn't a gem and it's being returned. It's a situation where the card really does have a serious flaw...the kind even I, with some of the loosest standards around, would object to.

Like I have said multiple times, the solution is pretty easy for me. I just list everything in EX from now on. I just checked and my #1 and #2 suppliers of inventory both list everything as EX. Those two make up close to half of what I sell. Then I'll go back to completely ignoring the item specifics (like 90+% of people on eBay) and not worrying about it. I still will not be buying raw cards that have to go through AG, at least on the way to me.

Do it like I did. Send it to SGC get your 9 and screw CGC and AG program! It will be well worth it.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by rwperu34

I think you are purporting to know things that you don't really know. What I do know is if I had so much as put "surfce issue" in the description, it would have passed. The other thing I know is when they say they are checking against the decription, they are checking against the descriptoin. Whether or not the item specifics are counted as a part of the decription is the open question.

Is it or is not a good idea to buy an EX-designated card, not inspect it, then sell it as a NM or better card?

As Sonny said…What am I missing here?

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by jamcas997

I sold a card 2 years ago a 3 Auto Relic from Leaf DR J , Magic and Bird. AG said card was not NM and screwed my whole $500 sale. Now remember NM is 7 or better by CGC scale! I send my card a month later to be graded it gets a 9 with 10 auto from SGC and I sell it for $200 more. AG is a joke ! All AG should be determining is the card real or fake or the correct card! Thats just my opinion and since then I have been grading my higher dollar cards to avoid them and grade chasing crybabies.

No one is saying grading companies can’t be different, even wildy different, in their assessments. It’s even possible SGC was the wrong one and missed some flaw that ebay AG saw, who knows. Im sure ebay AG can be wrong too. We don’t know if ebay AG is “wrong” here in his case because he upgraded the condition so it’s being evaluated against two different standards.

The reason why ebay AG can’t just be “is the card real or not” is because it would defeat the entire purpose. One whole point is to make it a final sale without returns (which ebay was probably up to their knees in, in trading cards). You can’t really have final sales without looking at condition.

[JeffG1954]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Is it or is not a good idea to buy an EX-designated card, not inspect it, then sell it as a NM or better card?

As Sonny said…What am I missing here?

It's likely he has done the same thing before, but this time the card was actually EX as described.....sometimes you are the bug, sometimes you are the windshield.

[rwperu34]

Originally Posted by JeffG1954

It's likely he has done the same thing before, but this time the card was actually EX as described.....sometimes you are the bug, sometimes you are the windshield.

Absolutely. Probably about half of the items I buy/sell fit this description. And I don't check closely...or at all on low dollar cards.

[rwperu34]

It's relisted as EX with no disclosure, but I did lower the price by $300.

With the card in hand I can tell for sure that this was a production issue, and not damaged in transit. That's pretty key, because if it fails it means pretty close to 100% they just missed it. If it passes, it means pretty close to 100% that it was the condition. I don't know what I'm rooting for.

[DynaEtch]

Making things simple, my view of this,

You have a card in front of you. What is the condition of it.

If it’s less than EX- you were wronged by AG (understanding grading is subjective especially in borderline cases, but say definitely less than EX).

If it’s in EX- you were not wronged by the program, unless they reject it again when you list it as EX….then you have a legitimate gripe with eBay AG for being inconsistent. But just getting an EX card designated as EX is not itself being wronged.

If it’s NM or better (although this sounds doubtful)- then you were wronged by ebay AG the second time around for rejecting it.

Regardless of which it is, it’s not a good idea to upgrade the designation to NM to resell without first verifying whether it’s in NM. Also a good idea to view ebay AG raw listings especially ones less than NM as buyer beware.

[rwperu34]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Making things simple, my view of this,

You have a card in front of you. What is the condition of it.

If it’s less than EX- you were wronged by AG (understanding grading is subjective especially in borderline cases, but say definitely less than EX).

If it’s in EX- you were not wronged by the program, unless they reject it again when you list it as EX….then you have a legitimate gripe with eBay AG for being inconsistent. But just getting an EX card designated as EX is not itself being wronged.

If it’s NM or better (although this sounds doubtful)- then you were wronged by ebay AG the second time around for rejecting it.

Regardless of which it is, it’s not a good idea to upgrade the designation to NM to resell without first verifying whether it’s in NM. Also a good idea to view ebay AG raw listings especially ones less than NM as buyer beware.

We'll find out in a few days since the card has already sold.

[waytoomanycards]

Originally Posted by rwperu34

We'll find out in a few days since the card has already sold.

If/when it eventually passes, that could be an interesting serial number to track over the next few years. Just to see the different ways people try to liquidate it. If it ever pops up in a PSA 10 slab, we'll know the Kurt's Card Care boys have entered the chat.

[jamcas997]

To the top .

[rwperu34]

This one has been resolved. It was indeed the EX condition as it passed through without hiccup.

Having had time to ruminate on this, here is what I've come up with;

1) I will not buy any raw cards that need to go through AG on the way to me. There are simply too many other places where I can spend the money that create less issues. I'll probably limit raw purchases to $100-$120.

2) The exception to that will be Red /5 and Superfractors, especially 1st Bowman Autos.

3) For the raw cards that I already have that would have gone through AG on the way to me, I am going to lower the condition to EX. I will also take them out of the AG box and get them in a toploader. That's more to save space than anything.

If I need to readjust in the future (ie if I run out of other places to spend the money), I will make whatever adjustment I deem necessary.

[DynaEtch]

I have a question about ebay AG.

I’m in the US and buy a card from Canada over the ebay AG threshold. The listing actually has the ebay AG checkmark and says Authenticity Guarantee from the perspective of me viewing the page on my account. Which is kinda surprising to me, I thought international sales don’t go through it. I was aware Canada has its own ebay AG but I didn’t know a card from CA to US does go through it.

Has anyone had experience with this? Bought from Canada and it goes through ebay AG? I was hoping this one wouldn’t because it’s an error card and I’m not sure how ebay AG will react to it

[DynaEtch]

And another question- if seller includes some extra freebie cards not mentioned at all in the listing (which is just for 1 card), what does eBay AG do then?

-authenticate the main card and send extras on with it

-count it as miscategorized and send it on to me without authentication

-reject it and send it back to seller

[DynaEtch]

Got a some answers from ebay reps.

Apparently Canada -> US does go through ebay AG….sigh. Now have to hope they understand very strange error cards.

As for the extra freebies, they said tons of extras probably gets sent back to seller, when it’s just a handful of freebies cards they probably send it on with the authenticated card to buyer. But nothing guaranteed. Im giving this a 50% chance this card even reaches me in the end.

[waytoomanycards]

Originally Posted by rwperu34

This one has been resolved. It was indeed the EX condition as it passed through without hiccup.

Having had time to ruminate on this, here is what I've come up with;

1) I will not buy any raw cards that need to go through AG on the way to me. There are simply too many other places where I can spend the money that create less issues. I'll probably limit raw purchases to $100-$120.

2) The exception to that will be Red /5 and Superfractors, especially 1st Bowman Autos.

3) For the raw cards that I already have that would have gone through AG on the way to me, I am going to lower the condition to EX. I will also take them out of the AG box and get them in a toploader. That's more to save space than anything.

If I need to readjust in the future (ie if I run out of other places to spend the money), I will make whatever adjustment I deem necessary.

If you're just trying to avoid AG as a buyer, you could avoid it by getting a po box. I think that still works. (I have a po box, but haven't bought any singles that would qualify).

[rwperu34]

Originally Posted by waytoomanycards

If you're just trying to avoid AG as a buyer, you could avoid it by getting a po box. I think that still works. (I have a po box, but haven't bought any singles that would qualify).

Thank you for the information. I think I'm going to stick with my original instinct of not spending big on raw. There's enough graded and mid-level that I won't have a hard time spending all of the money even without high end raw. I only had 3 AG items in six months, and two of those were /5.

[DynaEtch]

Question, has anyone as a buyer had a raw card graded through ebay AG yet? When/how did you choose that option? I don’t think I saw the option when purchasing the card. Do you make that choice later?

Or did they not implement it yet?

[DynaEtch]

Another question:

Seller has an ebay AG card listing. In the specifics they have it listed as “Graded- PSA authentic”.

The card is a raw card inside an ebay AG sealed bag (card previously went through eBay AG). Their reasoning for listing it as “Graded-PSA authentic” is because it did get authenticated by ebay AG which is PSA.

Will this pass or not pass eBay AG? Am I wrong in thinking it will be rejected since it’s a raw card not technically in a PSA authentic slab?

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Question, has anyone as a buyer had a raw card graded through ebay AG yet? When/how did you choose that option? I don’t think I saw the option when purchasing the card. Do you make that choice later?

Or did they not implement it yet?

Just got my answer to this from ebay rep. Only strict BIN purchases can have grading added, not offers….how dumb is that. The reason I didn’t see it with my purchase is because I was making an offer.

Like it would be too hard for eBay to just have that option for offers as well? Only thought is because they want to offer it only for actual >$250 cards.

[sethc1020]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Just got my answer to this from ebay rep. Only strict BIN purchases can have grading added, not offers….how dumb is that. The reason I didn’t see it with my purchase is because I was making an offer.

Like it would be too hard for eBay to just have that option for offers as well? Only thought is because they want to offer it only for actual >$250 cards.

I didn't even know this was a thing. Do they charge you extra for that service?

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by sethc1020

I didn't even know this was a thing. Do they charge you extra for that service?

I have yet to do it, but I’m assuming adding grading to ebay AG costs money- probably what the normal PSA. grading fee is. eBay AG without grading is a free service obviously. But yea you can add grading with a fee…they are just rolling this out now.

eBay really needs to modify that so it applies to offers as well. As of now looks like it’s strict BIN raw cards $250 or more.

I bought a raw marvel card for >$1500 yesterday. I would have loved to have that graded since it’s right there at PSA going through eBay AG. Now if I grade this I’m going to have reship it out to a grading company, which always makes me nervous for higher end cards, plus pay to have that shipping insured etc…what a waste. I may even just not grade it now.

It’s all because I purchased it via offer. Seller in theory looking back could have changed the listing and adjusted down asking price down to my offer price, just so I can add grading, but what a mess. I wonder if we’ll see sellers/buyer do that to enable the option. Since ebay can’t seem to do the 2-bit programming addition of just having it give you the option with offers as well.