2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[charnick]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

I appreciate the response and the kindness it contains.

Those states are on some shaky legal and moral ground for sure. I would have to read their exact laws and proposals to firm an educated position on them. I suppose differing points of view could see the line between miscarriage/stillbirth and intentionally harming a fetus in different ways. The whole concept is unfortunate.

It is horrifying to think that a woman unintentionally losing her pregnancy could be thought of as a crime. I wonder where deliberate indifference as to the child's health might come into play. Complicated stuff, for sure.

My wish is not to punish anyone. My wish is to protect fetuses, which I see as children. No more, no less.

Originally Posted by JustRachel

In that one case, I wouldve supported the abortion because the baby wasn't going to survive either way, according to the doctors.

I'll also be the first person to say I'm not an expert on the subject. Lord knows I don't even want to be. I can't trot out link after link to make my point, but it is most certainly happening. The whole concept is unfortunate, and I find that the majority of the people in power making these determinations are old men, which is also unfortunate.

Again, it's something I never gave a single thought to in the abortion debate before this happened, but it's opened my eyes to the length some zealots will go. Take our dear outgoing prez for example because I know you're big fan He was always riling up the rally crowds with tales of babies being ripped from wombs late term and killed by doctors right after birth and twisting the words of those who were describing a very specific situation - the same you referred to and were in favor of - where the child had no chance of survival and the mother's life hung in the balance. Just another big fat LIE from a big fat LIAR and we all lose in the process.

[Onepocketj]

Nice foreshadowing

https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTokCring...eb2x&context=3

[lietuvalabas]

Originally Posted by Onepocketj

Nice foreshadowing

https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTokCring...eb2x&context=3

But but but...russia

just because he's upfront about it, and she and the left aren't doesnt make 1 single bit of difference. Bitching is Bitching

They never gave him a chance since before day 1, so even if this is just him being pouty and a sore loser, whats fair is fair, drag it out, be a huge pain in the a$$, give them a taste of what you had to go through every single day.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by charnick

I'll also be the first person to say I'm not an expert on the subject. Lord knows I don't even want to be. I can't trot out link after link to make my point, but it is most certainly happening. The whole concept is unfortunate, and I find that the majority of the people in power making these determinations are old men, which is also unfortunate.



Again, it's something I never gave a single thought to in the abortion debate before this happened, but it's opened my eyes to the length some zealots will go. Take our dear outgoing prez for example because I know you're big fan He was always riling up the rally crowds with tales of babies being ripped from wombs late term and killed by doctors right after birth and twisting the words of those who were describing a very specific situation - the same you referred to and were in favor of - where the child had no chance of survival and the mother's life hung in the balance. Just another big fat LIE from a big fat LIAR and we all lose in the process.

Excellent post, especially the bolded.

Some of the issues politicians argue about seem pretty simple. This is not one of those. Even wanting to be about as protective of fetuses as a person could be, there are still exceptions, situations that haven't been considered, and the like. And truthfulness from our leaders is necessary before meaningful change can happen or before correct decisions can be made.

Ugh. I'm so glad the big fat LIAR will be gone soon.

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[mike1498]

Originally Posted by Ray27Ray52

Harming themselves how? I'm talking specifically in terms of the topic at hand which is abortion.

Okay my point is if you think someone is doing harm to something you do have the right to say something. You don't need a vagina to say it. Now if you think they are harming another life is what's debatable which is a better stance.

If I think someone is causing harm to themselves or someone else is doesn't matter if we share the same parts.

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

People vote for the president.

I get that you disagree and that's okay. I also get that some fraction of people will see it your way and another fraction mine. It's not 100% either way.

I think my fraction is bigger, you think yours is. Since I'm not the type to whip em out and see which is bigger, I'm content to accept a disagreement on the issue.

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I'm obviously not going to debate your fraction is larger lol. To think no one cares about the VP I think is a big understatement is my point. I think quite a few extreme evangelicals care that pence is there. That's all. But no, you and me didn't care that pence or Kamala was there. I'd be naïve to think others didn't though. I also would argue most republicans don't really care about religion as much as you think hence didn't really care Trump was the leader of the party. He just took pence to round up the few radicals that do.

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by lietuvalabas

But but but...russia

just because he's upfront about it, and she and the left aren't doesnt make 1 single bit of difference. Bitching is Bitching

They never gave him a chance since before day 1, so even if this is just him being pouty and a sore loser, whats fair is fair, drag it out, be a huge pain in the a$$, give them a taste of what you had to go through every single day.

Trump is such a victim.

[Astros19]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Again, you seem to be rambling about things that are irrelevant to what I was saying. Why would I defend a position I didn't take in the first place?

VPs are not important was my position. You went off on some tangent about parties, diversity, whatever.

Very few people, if any, voted for Trump because of Pence. That's my position. Why are you wandering off into other things as if they're relevant?

Identity politics, diversity, whatever. Nobody cares about Mike Pence. C'mon.

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Dan Quail, Sarah Palin, Mike Pence and Kamala Harris are laughing at you.

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[fungi2510]

Originally Posted by lietuvalabas

But but but...russia

just because he's upfront about it, and she and the left aren't doesnt make 1 single bit of difference. Bitching is Bitching

They never gave him a chance since before day 1, so even if this is just him being pouty and a sore loser, whats fair is fair, drag it out, be a huge pain in the a$$, give them a taste of what you had to go through every single day.

Can I ask how old you are?

[lietuvalabas]

Originally Posted by fungi2510

Can I ask how old you are?

sure, 31. But i believe in returning pettiness when pettiness is done to you.

i also agree with being the bigger person in certain situations, but the egregious way the left treated him is unacceptable, petty on..

[mike1498]

Maybe it's because I'm in NJ but do most liberals think that the moderate republicans are usually "socially conservative"

I'm not taking about the stereotypical religious, anti gun pro life conservative. I mean the more moderate who usually identify as "libertarians"

Given I'm younger most people I know are liberal so when I discuss this with my conservative friends they they think that conservatism is dying. I just think "social conservatism" is dying.

I expect weed to be legalized federally eventually, more people seem to be pro choice and religion is dying. But I don't think fiscal conservatism dies.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by mike1498

I'm obviously not going to debate your fraction is larger lol. To think no one cares about the VP I think is a big understatement is my point. I think quite a few extreme evangelicals care that pence is there. That's all. But no, you and me didn't care that pence or Kamala was there. I'd be naïve to think others didn't though. I also would argue most republicans don't really care about religion as much as you think hence didn't really care Trump was the leader of the party. He just took pence to round up the few radicals that do.

I honestly have no idea how many republicans care about religion. I'd be interested to learn the percentages.

I am not religious at all. And, as you know, I consider myself conservative anyway...just not in the same religious conservative way of a Barry Goldwater or anything.

It is an interesting point you make.

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[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by Astros19

Dan Quail, Sarah Palin, Mike Pence and Kamala Harris are laughing at you.

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Until Quayle learns to spell potato, his opinion carries no weight with me.

Sarah Palin might think I'm a maverick. Who knows?

Mike Pence needs to shut his mouth and take his butt back to Indiana.

And Kamala Harris knows she can't sway me like a certain mayor of San Francisco. She's more likely to growl at me than laugh.

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[DegaBama]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/11/inves...ine/index.html

I mean, I get the "reasons", but come on haha.

[Pete Schweddy]

Originally Posted by mike1498

Maybe it's because I'm in NJ but do most liberals think that the moderate republicans are usually "socially conservative"

I'm not taking about the stereotypical religious, anti gun pro life conservative. I mean the more moderate who usually identify as "libertarians"

Given I'm younger most people I know are liberal so when I discuss this with my conservative friends they they think that conservatism is dying. I just think "social conservatism" is dying.

I expect weed to be legalized federally eventually, more people seem to be pro choice and religion is dying. But I don't think fiscal conservatism dies.

Main reasons I switched from republican to libertarisn was social issues. I'm an atheist, and while I don't care if you're religious, laws shouldn't be based on it. I don't smoke pot, but don't see why it should still be illegal. While I'm not pro-abortion, I don't feel it's my right to tell someone they can't have one. And at the time I switched parties gay marriage was a big topic which many republicans were strongly against.

But I remain fiscally conservative, and believe Trump and the other current repubs were too loose with their spending.

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by Pete Schweddy

Main reasons I switched from republican to libertarisn was social issues. I'm an atheist, and while I don't care if you're religious, laws shouldn't be based on it. I don't smoke pot, but don't see why it should still be illegal. While I'm not pro-abortion, I don't feel it's my right to tell someone they can't have one. And at the time I switched parties gay marriage was a big topic which many republicans were strongly against.

But I remain fiscally conservative, and believe Trump and the other current repubs were too loose with their spending.

Yeah I foresee this becoming the republican party. At least for me (again this could be that I live in NJ) a lot of republicans are very open to liberal social policy but won't budge on fiscal.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by Pete Schweddy

Main reasons I switched from republican to libertarisn was social issues. I'm an atheist, and while I don't care if you're religious, laws shouldn't be based on it. I don't smoke pot, but don't see why it should still be illegal. While I'm not pro-abortion, I don't feel it's my right to tell someone they can't have one. And at the time I switched parties gay marriage was a big topic which many republicans were strongly against.



But I remain fiscally conservative, and believe Trump and the other current repubs were too loose with their spending.

Libertarians have some good ideas, but some that are simply not practical. If the party changed a few things, I could see myself supporting them one day. As is, not a chance.


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[free2131]

Originally Posted by Pete Schweddy

Main reasons I switched from republican to libertarisn was social issues. I'm an atheist, and while I don't care if you're religious, laws shouldn't be based on it. I don't smoke pot, but don't see why it should still be illegal. While I'm not pro-abortion, I don't feel it's my right to tell someone they can't have one. And at the time I switched parties gay marriage was a big topic which many republicans were strongly against.

But I remain fiscally conservative, and believe Trump and the other current repubs were too loose with their spending.

These are the kind of Conservative Republicans I can be okay with compromising with. You and I might not agree on a policy or the way to approach a problem, but we can respect each other as people and see that we are both trying to solve a problem because we care about our country and the people in it, we just disagree on the means to get to that solution.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Libertarians have some good ideas, but some that are simply not practical. If the party changed a few things, I could see myself supporting them one day. As is, not a chance.


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Libertarians have the best ideas. About everything.

[DegaBama]

Man, Philip Rivers has to kick one of his kids out if he wants to have a private Thanksgiving in New York.

https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/statu...96760710602753

[DegaBama]

Hey, want to go to a concert? Gonna need a vaccine or a COVID test, first.

https://www.billboard.com/articles/b...-concerts-plan

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by mike1498

Yeah I foresee this becoming the republican party. At least for me (again this could be that I live in NJ) a lot of republicans are very open to liberal social policy but won't budge on fiscal.

I am open to plenty of changes to conservative social policy and pretty entrenched in fiscal. But libertarians have a whole lot left to figure out, imo.

How do we maintain minimal military, employ isolationist foreign policy, and remain secure?

How do we get rid of things like occupational licensing, the FDA, and other regulatory agencies and remain safe in a free market? Are we just supposed to trust the free market to police bad actors? I prefer a proactive approach.

And how are we going to pay for anything if contributions to government are voluntary? C'mon.

This is just for starters.

Like I said, some good ideas, some buzzword nonsense that has no basis in reality. Check out 2.4 from the platform on their website.



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[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

Libertarians have the best ideas. About everything.

Well, who am I to question the smartest, wisest, best collection of individuals ever to assemble? I had forgotten and I must apologize. I bow to your wisdom. If you endorse them, then there is simply no possible way they could ever put forth anything that is less than perfectly ideal.

I see the flaw in my thinking now. Thanks for the help.

So tell me, why are these geniuses not controlling the world?

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[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

I am open to plenty of changes to conservative social policy and pretty entrenched in fiscal. But libertarians have a whole lot left to figure out, imo.

How do we maintain minimal military, employ isolationist foreign policy, and remain secure?

How do we get rid of things like occupational licensing, the FDA, and other regulatory agencies and remain safe in a free market? Are we just supposed to trust the free market to police bad actors? I prefer a proactive approach.

And how are we going to pay for anything if contributions to government are voluntary? C'mon.

This is just for starters.

Like I said, some good ideas, some buzzword nonsense that has no basis in reality. Check out 2.4 from the platform on their website.

[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201111/0810b8a69711721fa928b388ff17b287.jpg[IMG]

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Just requires the right people. America is full of losers. Anyone who wants to start a libertarian cult with me, holla (kinda serious).

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Well, who am I to question the smartest, wisest, best collection of individuals ever to assemble? I had forgotten and I must apologize. I bow to your wisdom. If you endorse them, then there is simply no possible way they could ever put forth anything that is less than perfectly ideal.

I see the flaw in my thinking now. Thanks for the help.

So tell me, why are these geniuses not controlling the world?

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We’re not trying to take over the world, silly goose.