2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by techtre2003

That governor "mandated" restaurants completely shut down and a few days later his fat ass is partying it up in the streets with Biden supporters; that's the perspective I'm looking at. And you're right, it doesn't matter to us where I live because we don't give a damn what he says. There's your unity Democrats love to speak about.

Haha. Yeah, our community reacted similarly when faced with a governor's nonsense. Still, we found balance by masks and distancing as much as reasonably possible. It's not like we did well with the virus though.

So the governor is a hypocritical douchebag. That doesn't negate doing the responsible thing.

The left's talk of unity is just posturing. It's buzzword nonsense, nothing more.

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[Clark]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Absolutely. We are by no means wealthy, but we are just fine, stimulus or not.

Still, I'd prefer to see a smaller, better managed stimulus. I think the economic benefits for our nation are worth the national expense. I think it's not only the right thing to do, but the smart thing to do.

Times like these require loosening of the purse strings a bit. I just hope that we'll tighten back up again when things get better.

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Explain that to the many losing their business or home. Step away from this discussion.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by discostu

If another stimulus occurs (and it probably will), I'm of the belief that it should solely be for actual small businesses...not the wonky SBA definition.

Businesses with $10s of millions in annual payroll are not a small business.

Frankly, I'd send whatever stimulus to individuals, but nothing to businesses as entities.

Agreed. My hubby and I argued about this last night. Him being a libtard, he wants the government to go crazy with money. I suggested helping individuals and letting businesses fail if they can't hang. New business will take their place when the demand returns. Truthfully, the best option is probably somewhere in the middle.

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[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by Clark

Explain that to the many losing their business or home. Step away from this discussion.

No.

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[mike1498]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Agreed. My hubby and I argued about this last night. Him being a libtard, he wants the government to go crazy with money. I suggested helping individuals and letting businesses fail if they can't hang. New business will take their place when the demand returns. Truthfully, the best option is probably somewhere in the middle.

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Yeah I don't know about the argument of "individuals" over "business". I 100% agree businesses haven't been responsible with their spending. But is it fair to assume that individuals were either? Business owners are individuals. I'm sorry I don't see the difference.

Now I don't know if stimulus is a good solution but I have no reason to believe individuals are any better than businesses in response to risk.

[discostu]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Agreed. My hubby and I argued about this last night. Him being a libtard, he wants the government to go crazy with money. I suggested helping individuals and letting businesses fail if they can't hang. New business will take their place when the demand returns. Truthfully, the best option is probably somewhere in the middle.

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However you two work it out, just hoping that the clozapine prescription still makes it on time.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by mike1498

Yeah I don't know about the argument of "individuals" over "business". I 100% agree businesses haven't been responsible with their spending. But is it fair to assume that individuals were either? Business owners are individuals. I'm sorry I don't see the difference.



Now I don't know if stimulus is a good solution but I have no reason to believe individuals are any better than businesses in response to risk.

Good points.

But I figured that if business owners and employees get some help individually, they should be able to make mortgage payments or whatever. The business itself is not a person, it's jobs. Those jobs will be replaced by another business when demand returns.

Of course, it's not that simple. I'm sure the best solution is somewhere in the middle. I'd prefer help be given to those that need it though, rather than just whichever hand is out waiting for taxpayer dollars. (Collectors Universe, I'm eyeballing you right now.)

Responsible or irresponsible...it's about helping people in need due to a pandemic-related recession.

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[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by discostu

However you two work it out, just hoping that the clozapine prescription still makes it on time.

Absolutely!

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[techtre2003]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Haha. Yeah, our community reacted similarly when faced with a governor's nonsense. Still, we found balance by masks and distancing as much as reasonably possible. It's not like we did well with the virus though.

So the governor is a hypocritical douchebag. That doesn't negate doing the responsible thing.

The left's talk of unity is just posturing. It's buzzword nonsense, nothing more.

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I'd say we are doing okay; 6 reported deaths in the entire county. A vast majority of the people here never wore masks locally; now it's rare to see one wear a mask at all outside of store employees. I'm at the gas station about every day getting my caffeine fix and really people are good about keeping their distance and being aware of being around others.

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Good points.

But I figured that if business owners and employees get some help individually, they should be able to make mortgage payments or whatever. The business itself is not a person, it's jobs. Those jobs will be replaced by another business when demand returns.

Of course, it's not that simple. I'm sure the best solution is somewhere in the middle. I'd prefer help be given to those that need it though, rather than just whichever hand is out waiting for taxpayer dollars. (Collectors Universe, I'm eyeballing you right now.)

Responsible or irresponsible...it's about helping people in need due to a pandemic-related recession.

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You're right, a business is more than an individual it effects a group of people. If the business goes down, so does all the jobs it provides and the owners income.

I don't know if stimulus is the solution. All I know is punishing businesses because of America's inability to prepare for crises seems silly if we're just going to reward individuals with the same problem.

Again, I don't know if that's stimulus or not, but I don't know why we'd punish businesses and not individuals.

[techtre2003]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Agreed. My hubby and I argued about this last night. Him being a libtard, he wants the government to go crazy with money. I suggested helping individuals and letting businesses fail if they can't hang. New business will take their place when the demand returns. Truthfully, the best option is probably somewhere in the middle.

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That's the tricky part. How does a gym owner for example hang in there if the government doesn't allow his business to be open?

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by mike1498

You're right, a business is more than an individual it effects a group of people. If the business goes down, so does all the jobs it provides and the owners income.

I don't know if stimulus is the solution. All I know is punishing businesses because of America's inability to prepare for crises seems silly if we're just going to reward individuals with the same problem.

Again, I don't know if that's stimulus or not, but I don't know why we'd punish businesses and not individuals.

Punish? I wouldn't use that word. The government isnt punishing anyone.

As to the first part, yeah. So, should we bail out all business in trouble, or just those affected by Covid. Should we pay everyone's mortgage and float every business? Sounds a lot like communism to me.

I'm all for a safety net. Safety nets are for people, not entities.

I'm also not sure what's the correct course of action. I'm pretty sure what we did last time was ridiculous though. A high percent of the taxpayers dollars went to people that weren't in need. That's not cool.

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[ballhawkdawk]

No more stimulus. We all suffer together. More pain!

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by techtre2003

That's the tricky part. How does a gym owner for example hang in there if the government doesn't allow his business to be open?

He stops being an owner of a failing business.

I get your point. But if he and his employees can get some help to get them through the pandemic, then the business itself can fail. He can reopen when demand returns, or be replaced by another gym.

Why should I pay for his business? I'd gladly help him with food, rent, whatever, until the pandemic is under control. But I don't want to finance his investment on the government's dime.

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[Clark]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

No.

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That's fine. Hopefully, the money gets to people who need it.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by Clark

That's fine. Hopefully, the money gets to people who need it.

It's not the government's job to pay anyone's bills.

If our government decides to do that, so be it. I just hope they don't waste most of it like last time.

Edit to add: Do you think it's okay to take money from taxpayers and give it to Collectors Universe? I gave them thousands and thousands of dollars last year in business already. I don't need the government taking more money from me to give it to them.

Give it to struggling people, but that's it.

[lionsfan20]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

He stops being an owner of a failing business.

I get your point. But if he and his employees can get some help to get them through the pandemic, then the business itself can fail. He can reopen when demand returns, or be replaced by another gym.

Why should I pay for his business? I'd gladly help him with food, rent, whatever, until the pandemic is under control. But I don't want to finance his investment on the government's dime.

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Lol his business isn't "failing" the government forced him to close putting him out of business. As a small business owner myself I can tell you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. You should stick to insulting Trump and his supporters. You seem to have a good handle on that.


As far as stimulus I am ok with smaller targeted package but I will not be sad if there is no stimulus. Don't force businesses to close and many won't need stimulus. I have no problem with businesses being forced to adapt. That is part of business. And if you aren't fiscally responsible and also adaptable as a business you will likely fail eventually anyway. But there is no adapting to being forced to completely close down your business for any extended period of time.

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[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by lionsfan20

Lol his business isn't "failing" the government forced him to close putting him out of business. As a small business owner myself I can tell you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. You should stick to insulting Trump and his supporters. You seem to have a good handle on that.

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That is a distinction without a difference.

As a small business owner myself, I can tell you clearly have no idea what I am talking about.

Did you miss that? I was attempting to demonstrate how insults fail to further a discussion.

Keep your hand out hoping the government will take care of you. Real republican there, aren't you? Beg your dear leader for a handout if you like.

The government didn't force this crisis. The government reacted to it. Some Americans will step up, accept the challenges of our generation, and kick some butt. Others will whine and beg. We all get to decide which we will be.

Crappy stuff happens. I've lost my business before, twice. Once was my fault (poor relationship management) and the other was not my fault. I did what I had to do to get past it...without a government handout.

Conservatives don't run from challenges. You're acting like a liberal today.

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[lionsfan20]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

That is a distinction without a difference.

As a small business owner myself, I can tell you clearly have no idea what I am talking about.

Did you miss that? I was attempting to demonstrate how insults fail to further a discussion.

Keep your hand out hoping the government will take care of you. Real republican there, aren't you? Beg your dear leader for a handout if you like.

The government didn't force this crisis. The government reacted to it. Some Americans will step up, accept the challenges of our generation, and kick some butt. Others will whine and beg. We all get to decide which we will be.

Crappy stuff happens. I've lost my business before, twice. Once was my fault (poor relationship management) and the other was not my fault. I did what I had to do to get past it...without a government handout.

Conservatives don't run from challenges. You're acting like a liberal today.

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Lol nice try.

My business had cash flow to weather the storm. Then I adapted and shifted from commercial heavy customer base to consumer heavy and I am doing better than precovid. No handouts needed here. And you clearly missed the entire second half of my post where I said small targeted stimulus or none at all. I don't need the stimulus buy I certainly understand how some might.

Swing and a miss!

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[mike1498]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Punish? I wouldn't use that word. The government isnt punishing anyone.

As to the first part, yeah. So, should we bail out all business in trouble, or just those affected by Covid. Should we pay everyone's mortgage and float every business? Sounds a lot like communism to me.

I'm all for a safety net. Safety nets are for people, not entities.

I'm also not sure what's the correct course of action. I'm pretty sure what we did last time was ridiculous though. A high percent of the taxpayers dollars went to people that weren't in need. That's not cool.

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Let's call a spade a spade then. You're picking and choosing winners. Why should individuals be helped and not businesses.

You say I'm for communism but I never even said I supported the stimulus. You're the one who believes in "safety nets". All I'm saying is with that logic you are saying either A) Individuals are more important than businesses (even though individuals wouldn't have necessities or income without them) or B) Some how covid ONLY affect individuals.

I'm saying they are both affected so either we all go down together or we are all benefitted. I don't believe in winners and losers hence I didn't support the trade war.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by lionsfan20

Lol nice try.

My business had cash flow to weather the storm. Then I adapted and shifted from commercial heavy customer base to consumer heavy and I am doing better than precovid. No handouts needed here. And you clearly missed the entire second half of my post where I said small targeted stimulus or none at all. I don't need the stimulus buy I certainly understand how some might.

Swing and a miss!

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There was no swing there. Lol. Nice try at deflection though.

Good for you if you adapted and overcame. That's what we need in this country.

My grandfather (the best man I ever knew) grew up during the Great Depression. Later in life (his forties) he went into business for himself. He bought a small laundromat, lol. Over time, he grew that laundromat into an empire. Anyway, he used to toss around advice from time to time. He used to say, "Whatever you do, stick to something related to food, clothing, or shelter. That way you'll be okay during recessions. People always need those things."

Dude that opened a gym took a risk. He probably did well for a while, but now things are different. He took that risk. I don't want anyone to go hungry, but saving his business with taxpayer dollars is something my grandfather (a conservative and a wartime veteran) would not be cool with. Neither am I.

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[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by mike1498

Let's call a spade a spade then. You're picking and choosing winners. Why should individuals be helped and not businesses.

You say I'm for communism but I never even said I supported the stimulus. You're the one who believes in "safety nets". All I'm saying is with that logic you are saying either A) Individuals are more important than businesses (even though individuals wouldn't have necessities or income without them) or B) Some how covid ONLY affect individuals.

I'm saying they are both affected so either we all go down together or we are all benefitted. I don't believe in winners and losers hence I didn't support the trade war.

No need to put words in my mouth, lol. I never said you were "for communism".

Yes, I'm saying one of those two things. I'm saying (A).

I'm not picking winners. How do you get that out of what I said? I'm for letting businesses figure it out on their own while taking care of the personal needs of people, including business owners and employees. If Covid causes some businesses to win and others to lose, so be it.

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[mike1498]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

No need to put words in my mouth, lol. I never said you were "for communism".

Yes, I'm saying one of those two things. I'm saying (A).

I'm not picking winners. How do you get that out of what I said? I'm for letting businesses figure it out on their own while taking care of the personal needs of people, including business owners and employees. If Covid causes some businesses to win and others to lose, so be it.

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1) you did say "As to the first part, yeah. So, should we bail out all business in trouble, or just those affected by Covid. Should we pay everyone's mortgage and float every business? Sounds a lot like communism to me."

I don't know how that doesn't imply that I was "for communism"

2) You 100% are picking winners and losers. Everyone chooses to use their money for something. Some of these people's lives are invested in their businesses and other depend on these businesses staying afloat. You are only holding businesses accountable for their reckless spending and not individuals. How is that not picking and choosing winners?

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

I’ll pluck out this post because this idea keeps getting repeated...

We missed the f’ing boat.

Trying to get compliance from 350 million Americans all at once has proven to be impossible. If lockdowns work (let’s assume they do... I don’t know and don’t care), our best shot was early on in April / May when compliance was highest and roads were empty. Many of us gave it our best shot. For two months I was only around two people... my wife and my daughter. I went to the grocery store once every ~ 10 days. I stopped getting my son every weekend for that time period. That’s over, though. That’s just the story of one guy who did legitimately try early on and realized the Covid clock was going to continue to reset every single time a large enough group got together.

There have been hundreds of protests, there have been large outdoor parties, and there have been large scale sporting event celebrations. Why should I attempt this again, knowing with absolute certainty there will be another protest deemed more important than a pandemic? That’s one aspect. Another aspect is that a lot of people are mentally over this at this point. They’re willing to live (or die) with the consequences for whatever reasons they may have.

It’s a waste of time to even consider lockdowns again. Even if 98% of the population is on board early on, the remaining 2% will keep it going, and then some of the 98% will decide lockdowns are pointless, and then there will be a protest to save the turtles, and then we’re back to square one. It’s ova.

What do you have against turtles?

Heartless.

[cnewby]

A Pennsylvania judge ruled in favor of the Trump campaign Thursday, ordering that the state may not count ballots where the voters needed to provide proof of identification and failed to do so by Nov. 9.