2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[Jgil316]

Originally Posted by Astros19

Why do you seem to believe the Trump campaign did seek out assistance from Russia?
It hasn't been proven.

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Actually, it has been proven the Trump campaign (ergo Trump himself) sought assistance from Russia.

As for "Collusion" - it has also been proven that people in the Trump Campaign and orbit did in-fact conspire with Russia to influence the election by finding dirt on the political rival.

June 9, 2016 meeting to get dirt on Clinton
July 2016 Trump asking Russia to find Clinton's "missing" emails.
Roger Stone working with a Russian hacker to get to Wikilinks to dump stolen emails from the DNC

List goes on and on and on.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by EBCollectibles

See everyone knows you are a hypocrite. It's really bad when you don't realize it either. I guess it comes with a lot of practice. Practice makes perfect.

You're embarrassing yourself. Again.

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[Jgil316]

Originally Posted by mike1498

Trust me, if there was something to know we'd know. The dems were drooling to get something like that on Trump and couldn't. If you don't think the dems through the kitchen and the sink at this conspiracy, you're lost my friend.

And what was found? Nothing. It kinda reminds me of how Trump got through out of every state he tried to contest because there's absolutely no voter fraud. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that he didn't investigate and try everything in his power to try to find something that doesn't exist. You are the reason I laugh when dems bring up election fraud. You still believe it four years after the fact.

Not a Trump fan either but this is blatant hypocrisy from the left.

With all due respect, I had a very difficult time understanding the premise of this post.

Everyone here is a Hypocrite, in one way or the other - the difference is how we justify (in our heads) the stance we take.

I am not a fan of Trump, never have been. I knew him as a failed business man who screwed over everyone around him.
4 years of the Trump experiment. where are we? Had it not been for the virus, I believe he would have won the second term, easily.

However, the virus exposed several Trump flaws.
As the pandemic raged on - these flaws were exacerbated by Trump and his inner circle.
Democracy is what America was built on.
Democracy is what differentiates the greatest country on earth, from everyone else.
To see the attempts to tear at this fabric should be startling for every single American citizen.
Asking people to overturn the will of the people?
Suing to stop vote counts?
Continuing to call an election fraud when 150+ million people voted?
Asking for states to send faithless electors to vote in favor of Trump?

This is worrisome on all levels.

Lastly, let us not forget the 9/11 commission and the recommendations given after that horrific attack on our beloved soil.

[56LightsOut56]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

Actually, it has been proven the Trump campaign (ergo Trump himself) sought assistance from Russia.



As for "Collusion" - it has also been proven that people in the Trump Campaign and orbit did in-fact conspire with Russia to influence the election by finding dirt on the political rival.



June 9, 2016 meeting to get dirt on Clinton

July 2016 Trump asking Russia to find Clinton's "missing" emails.

Roger Stone working with a Russian hacker to get to Wikilinks to dump stolen emails from the DNC



List goes on and on and on.

And it is fact the CIA warned the FBI that the Clinton campaign was going to try to tie Trump to Russia.
Between this fact and the Steele dossier it would seem the facts might actually point in the other direction on who was conspiring with who.
Should we spend another 40 million finding out?


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[EBCollectibles]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

You're embarrassing yourself. Again.

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When will your hypocritical moment come today?

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by EBCollectibles

When will your hypocritical moment come today?

#FakeNews

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[coachnip13]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

With all due respect, I had a very difficult time understanding the premise of this post.

Everyone here is a Hypocrite, in one way or the other - the difference is how we justify (in our heads) the stance we take.

I am not a fan of Trump, never have been. I knew him as a failed business man who screwed over everyone around him.
4 years of the Trump experiment. where are we? Had it not been for the virus, I believe he would have won the second term, easily.

However, the virus exposed several Trump flaws.
As the pandemic raged on - these flaws were exacerbated by Trump and his inner circle.
Democracy is what America was built on.
Democracy is what differentiates the greatest country on earth, from everyone else.
To see the attempts to tear at this fabric should be startling for every single American citizen.
Asking people to overturn the will of the people?
Suing to stop vote counts?
Continuing to call an election fraud when 150+ million people voted?
Asking for states to send faithless electors to vote in favor of Trump?

This is worrisome on all levels.

Lastly, let us not forget the 9/11 commission and the recommendations given after that horrific attack on our beloved soil.

This is evidence that it's the left that can't get Trump out of their minds. You just went from Russian collusion to a whole laundry list of Trump flaws.....instigated by no one. Move on. He's out in six weeks.

[Chris Lyle]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

With all due respect, I had a very difficult time understanding the premise of this post.

Everyone here is a Hypocrite, in one way or the other - the difference is how we justify (in our heads) the stance we take.

I am not a fan of Trump, never have been. I knew him as a failed business man who screwed over everyone around him.
4 years of the Trump experiment. where are we? Had it not been for the virus, I believe he would have won the second term, easily.

However, the virus exposed several Trump flaws.
As the pandemic raged on - these flaws were exacerbated by Trump and his inner circle.
Democracy is what America was built on.
Democracy is what differentiates the greatest country on earth, from everyone else.
To see the attempts to tear at this fabric should be startling for every single American citizen.
Asking people to overturn the will of the people?
Suing to stop vote counts?
Continuing to call an election fraud when 150+ million people voted?
Asking for states to send faithless electors to vote in favor of Trump?

This is worrisome on all levels.

Lastly, let us not forget the 9/11 commission and the recommendations given after that horrific attack on our beloved soil.

There are a lot of people that would say that if there is voter fraud, wrong doing going on, etc that that will destroy Democracy. Why shouldn't we want a transparent and fair election regardless of who wins?

[discostu]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

1. Mueller was under the impression that you can not indict a sitting president.
2. The Senate did not do their due diligence (call witnesses) and dismissed the Impeachment case.

You are correct, it doesn't matter at all!
I asked because in the last 2 weeks of lurking in this thread, I have seen the "Trump and no Russia" several times and each time I have been curious as to "why" do people still believe this?

Let's not confuse things here.

Trump was not impeached because of Russia, so while the Senate did not do their due diligence when it came to impeachment...it was regarding actions surrounding a call with Ukraine.

[techtre2003]

Originally Posted by discostu

Not even close to that number.

I totally understand the 60+ million that voted for Trump based solely on the standard 'R' expectations.

It's the fringe, blind believers that I was referring to. Those that actually believe his endless tweets and lies about the election are in another reality.

Surveys are saying it's around 70-80% of Republicans aren't buying the election results. They are also saying 15-20% of Democrats think the election was rigged. The ones who believe the election was totally free and fair are the fringe.

[techtre2003]

Originally Posted by discostu

Let's not confuse things here.

Trump was not impeached because of Russia, so while the Senate did not do their due diligence when it came to impeachment...it was regarding actions surrounding a call with Ukraine.

Of course they didn't do their due diligence. That would have just led to more probing of the Biden/Ukraine connection.

[coachnip13]

Originally Posted by techtre2003

Surveys are saying it's around 70-80% of Republicans aren't buying the election results.

This is absurd. I'm in a deep red county and no one...no one...even talks about the election. The only place I hear about any of this is in this thread, no exaggeration.

[techtre2003]

Originally Posted by 56LightsOut56

And it is fact the CIA warned the FBI that the Clinton campaign was going to try to tie Trump to Russia.
Between this fact and the Steele dossier it would seem the facts might actually point in the other direction on who was conspiring with who.
Should we spend another 40 million finding out?


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Exactly, there's a mound of clear evidence of what the Democrats did. But Trump sarcastically tells Russia to find Hillary's illegally "wiped" emails and Russia supposedly bought a few Facebook ads so that means Trump is a secret Russian agent.

[discostu]

Originally Posted by Chris Lyle

There are a lot of people that would say that if there is voter fraud, wrong doing going on, etc that that will destroy Democracy. Why shouldn't we want a transparent and fair election regardless of who wins?

We all want fair and transparent elections, and by every credible account, we had that. Every account.

Not a single shred of evidence has been put forth by anyone in Trump's atmosphere of "fraud" or "stealing the election." Nothing.

The cases put forth by the Trump legal team have been embarrassing attempts at overturning results based on nothing more than the notion of "there's no possible way that Trump could have actually lost." Sad.

Many of these suits have been centered around the inane notion that results should be known by the end of election night. Or that ballots shouldn't count if they were received by mail after Election Day, regardless of state laws. Inane.

Even people here like NeedChapmans held onto these myths of "federal election laws" somehow superceding state laws regarding elections and ballot receipt timelines. Stubborn.

At the end of the day, this is Trump 101, frivolous lawsuit after frivolous lawsuit in an attempt to tire and exhaust people and hope they go away or run out of fight.

It was fair.
It was legal.
It was valid.
It was clear.

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

No. He says it because he wants it to be true.

No one was talking about this, no one has been talking about it on this forum; it was completely out of the blue. He's desperate to drum up the conversation in the hopes that he can call out people in here to prove his belief that the idea of election fraud matters.

Honestly, when was the last post about anything election related? Pre-Thanksgiving, perhaps even before; 20+ pages ago? Nobody cares except him, and he wants you to care too.

That's all.

...and hes trying SOOOOOOO hard to push it! It's cute.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by Chris Lyle

There are a lot of people that would say that if there is voter fraud, wrong doing going on, etc that that will destroy Democracy. Why shouldn't we want a transparent and fair election regardless of who wins?

I don't think anybody is arguing whether we need a transparent, free election. I think many people are saying that's exactly what we have and some others are saying we don't. But we all agree that we should.

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[Zahadum]

Originally Posted by Chris Lyle

There are a lot of people that would say that if there is voter fraud, wrong doing going on, etc that that will destroy Democracy. Why shouldn't we want a transparent and fair election regardless of who wins?

This is what it is all coming down to.
The Trump/Pence administration in 2016 won and took a lot of people by surprise there had to be fraud or collusion and was investigated since day one and is still being referenced even after the committees did not peruse the “evidence”.
The Harris/Biden administration seems to have won in 2020 but there is a lot of things that seem odd or strange in a few states that should be looked into with the same in depth investigation but not happening and just move on with your lives nothing there is no “evidence”.
No matter which administration you like the one thing that should matter is to make sure the processes are secure for the future of the Democracy. This just seems to be a start of a very bumpy and dangerous road.

[techtre2003]

Originally Posted by coachnip13

This is absurd. I'm in a deep red county and no one...no one...even talks about the election. The only place I hear about any of this is in this thread, no exaggeration.

I'm just reporting what I've found online. And it's not just one or two right leaning sites reporting those kinds of numbers. I'm in a deep red county as well and there isn't a whole lot of talk about the election anymore either but that doesn't really negate the survey results.

[discostu]

Originally Posted by techtre2003

Surveys are saying it's around 70-80% of Republicans aren't buying the election results. They are also saying 15-20% of Democrats think the election was rigged. The ones who believe the election was totally free and fair are the fringe.

What surveys are you referring to?

Originally Posted by techtre2003

Of course they didn't do their due diligence. That would have just led to more probing of the Biden/Ukraine connection.

So you're saying that the Republican led Senate could have found information on Joe Biden and shirked their duty? Ok.

[coachnip13]

Originally Posted by discostu

We all want fair and transparent elections, and by every credible account, we had that. Every account.

Not a single shred of evidence has been put forth by anyone in Trump's atmosphere of "fraud" or "stealing the election." Nothing.

The cases put forth by the Trump legal team have been embarrassing attempts at overturning results based on nothing more than the notion of "there's no possible way that Trump could have actually lost." Sad.

Many of these suits have been centered around the inane notion that results should be known by the end of election night. Or that ballots shouldn't count if they were received by mail after Election Day, regardless of state laws. Inane.

Even people here like NeedChapmans held onto these myths of "federal election laws" somehow superceding state laws regarding elections and ballot receipt timelines. Stubborn.

At the end of the day, this is Trump 101, frivolous lawsuit after frivolous lawsuit in an attempt to tire and exhaust people and hope they go away or run out of fight.

It was fair.
It was legal.
It was valid.
It was clear.

I think all anyone really wants to hear is that either the last two elections were fair, legal, valid, and clear, or the last two elections were shady. One or the other.

[Zedlaw]

Originally Posted by coachnip13

This is evidence that it's the left that can't get Trump out of their minds. You just went from Russian collusion to a whole laundry list of Trump flaws.....instigated by no one. Move on. He's out in six weeks.

"Move along folks. The last four+ years supporting a selfish president and his cloud of hate meant nothing."

I'm not sure why this argument has gained traction here because this is all I picture when I read it.

[coachnip13]

Originally Posted by Zedlaw

"Move along folks. The last four+ years supporting a selfish president and his cloud of hate meant nothing."

I'm not sure why this argument has gained traction here because this is all I picture when I read it.

So you agree with him that you have a need to dwell on the past. Carry on, then.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by Zedlaw

"Move along folks. The last four+ years supporting a selfish president and his cloud of hate meant nothing."



I'm not sure why this argument has gained traction here because this is all I picture when I read it.

I agree. As a voter, I will definitely remember who supported this nonsense and who did not. I will remember who called for Trump to concede and who did not. Republicans that supported any of this nonsense will never get another vote from me.

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[Zedlaw]

Originally Posted by coachnip13

So you agree with him that you have a need to dwell on the past. Carry on, then.

I suppose I could be misunderstanding the point of a political thread. But recent history and unresolved problems of a sitting president seem relevant to me, and arguing otherwise just shows how hollow the last four years have been

[techtre2003]

Originally Posted by discostu

What surveys are you referring to?


So you're saying that the Republican led Senate could have found information on Joe Biden and shirked their duty? Ok.

Put this in your Google and take your pick: "how many american think the election was rigged"


Yes, I'm saying that. I'm not so naive to think that digging too far into something like that would open a can of worms that neither side of the uni-party wants to open.