PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by Treadstone

Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post - note from that other forum

You'll have to be more specific; that could apply to dozens of hobby parasites.

As for Blowout, the owner folded in the face of an obvious bluff. They should have told whoever sent the demand letter to go f^< k themselves. A case against Blowout for something a poster wrote has no merit because Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act gives interactive online services of all types broad immunity from defamation claims stemming from content created by others:

"No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider."

The threat is so lacking in legal justification that after the lawsuit is thrown out of Federal court, BO could sue the attorney stupid enough to file the case for malicious prosecution. In state courts in Cali and some other states with anti-SLAPP laws (laws that punish the use of frivolous lawsuits to stifle debates about issues relevant to a segment of the public), the case would be disposed of in the initial pleading stages as well, with sanctions against the plaintiff for bringing it in the first place.

All BO has now done is to geld the board: anyone who is angry at anything posted just needs to send a lawyer letter and it will be censored.

I think that letter mostly shows PWCC/Brent’s desperation. It makes them look weak and pouty.

[pip]

Adam Warshaw/Exhibitman represented Robert Plancich, a hobby crusader who questioned the authenticity of an alleged Joe DiMaggio streak bat self-authenticated and sold by long-time MEARS authenticator, Dave Bushing, to Hillerich and Bradsby. Warshaw and Plancich prevailed in that case, which has some similarities to this situation. Some background:

http://gameuseduniverse.com/showthre...lugging-it-Out

From Good Wood: The Story of the Baseball Bat by Stuart Miller:



The result:



https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=76272

[superdan49]

Pip that was very informative, thank you for posting.

[auburn35]

Wow, nice research based on that net54 post. The information referenced in those threads is strikingly similar to the current events within the hobby.

[corndog]

Just want to point out a few things based on statements presented.

The below image that was snipped from post #6606 in this thread regarding the Lebron James card in question.
serf21 was the owner of the card when it was graded as a BGS 8 by Beckett.
In his post to an unnamed forum from November of 2006 he claims that he had sent it twice to Beckett and each time the card was graded a BGS 8.



So to clarify, according to the one-time owner in his own words, the card (while he owned it) was twice graded by experts at Beckett and each time the card was given the grade of BGS 8.
In the same post #6606 of this thread, another forum member in November of 2006 described the actual auction and included the Ebay auction link where the seller (serf21) sold
the card and noted in the listing that "The card is in near-mint condition with slight chipping on the bottom left corner".
Image snip:



Subsequently the card was sold by serf21 with the noted chipping to the lower left corner.
The same card resurfaced on Ebay in November of 2006 and the grade had improved to a BGS 9.5 with no mention of chipping
or visible chipping to the bottom left corner and the auction was ended without a sale (according to the 2006 forum post).

In the March 03, 2020 letter from Beckett Grading (copy below), it is noted by Beckett that the card in question was initially graded by Beckett Grading experts
as a BGS 9.5 in November of 2006. After being reviewed by their experts again in March, 2020, the grade stands as a BGS 9.5 and is unaltered.

[pingbling23]

do they keep the records where it was allegedly graded an 8 twice? they should include the serial numbers in the labels. that would help with their database if they had to look for suspicious behavior.

[Treadstone]

Somebody is going to get caught in a big lie!

Can't believe PWCC's lawyer let this happen...

Is he still working for them?

Seems like PWCC is getting more brazen than ever....

[HarryLime]

When you're guilty as f*ck but you think you can juke a cheap victory.

Arthur

[pip]

I've got a stack of letters like that from Beckett. Every time I review a card they send me one. There's no collusion here and there's no way they're PWCC's b*tch. My faith in the integrity of all TPGs has been fully restored. I think I'll go bid on some BGS 9.5s and 10s in PWCC's current auction.

[Bruins1993]

Originally Posted by corndog

"(and in our opinion)"

What does the card measure top to bottom in Becketts opinion?

[HarryLime]

If you looked up irony in the dictionary there would be a link to the the LeBron thread and a picture of the boob that got talked into threatening legal recourse against Blowout by PWCC.

I guarantee you the vast majority of people on Net54 had never even heard of that LeBron, now it's the most-discussed card in the hobby and everyone with half of a brain has seen the before and after photos. This poor guy got talked into basically murdering his card just so PWCC and Beckett could take a shot at scaring some people into being quiet.

Like there aren't lawyers in the hobby like Adam who would immediately point out how fruitless any attempt their threats would be. The whole thing just blew up in their face. If I were the owner of that LeBron I'd turn the tables and seek restitution from PWCC and/or Beckett. Beckett blatantly lied in that letter, failing to mention the first two times the card was graded.

Arthur

[Rooftop]

There has to be a pic somewhere of that card in a BGS 8 slab

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by Rooftop

There has to be a pic somewhere of that card in a BGS 8 slab

Photoshop one!

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Rooftop

There has to be a pic somewhere of that card in a BGS 8 slab

Doubt it. There was only one slabbed 8 before this one. If it was this card, it was immediately cracked and auctioned raw given the timing. The original grade would have been as RCR.

[This is]

Originally Posted by pip

I've got a stack of letters like that from Beckett. Every time I review a card they send me one. There's no collusion here and there's no way they're PWCC's b*tch. My faith in the integrity of all TPGs has been fully restored. I think I'll go bid on some BGS 9.5s and 10s in PWCC's current auction.

Beckett is not scared of PWCC.. IMO their risk averse to another lawsuit from the Lebron card's owner Louis Papa. There was a thread in basketball last night where someone posted this investigative report from SCR
http://www.sportscardradio.com/card-...brady-rc-card/

Papa is suing Beckett right now because a Tom Brady card he bought from them as a Bgs 8.5 was trimmed. SCR linked up the court docs
http://www.sportscardradio.com/wp-co...c.-21-2018.pdf

In this Lebron case Papa through Pwcc is claiming that Beckett's 'professional' review of the card determined that those criticizing the BGS 9.5 grade are wrong. It was his attorney's contact with Blowout that led to the thread being locked. That is my opinion based on available evidence.

The ironic part is in one lawsuit Pappa is suing Beckett because of their incompetence in grading his Brady card. But in the case of the Lebron he is using a letter from Beckett to claim that another card of his that was alleged to be trimmed is not. So Papa is simultaneously claiming Beckett owes him huge damages for one trimmed card but on another he is holding Beckett up as professional graders who's word should be accepted beyond criticism.

[pip]

Originally Posted by This is

Beckett is not scared of PWCC.. IMO their risk averse to another lawsuit from the Lebron card's owner Louis Papa. There was a thread in basketball last night where someone posted this investigative report from SCR
http://www.sportscardradio.com/card-...brady-rc-card/

Papa is suing Beckett right now because a Tom Brady card he bought from them as a Bgs 8.5 was trimmed. SCR linked up the court docs
http://www.sportscardradio.com/wp-co...c.-21-2018.pdf

In this Lebron case Papa through Pwcc is claiming that Beckett's 'professional' review of the card determined that those criticizing are wrong. It was his attorney's contact with Blowout that led to the thread being locked. That is my opinion based on available evidence.

The ironic part is in one lawsuit Pappa is suing Beckett because of their incompetence in grading his Brady card. But in the case of the Lebron he is using a letter from Beckett to claim that another card of his that was alleged to be trimmed is not. So Papa is simultaneously claiming Beckett owes him huge damages for one trimmed card but on another he is holding Beckett up as professional graders who's word should be accepted beyond criticism.

That seems to be a very tenable position.

Beckett is a very curious company. It must be difficult to keep track of all of the incoming and outgoing legal actions. Overall, however, they're a fine, tightly-run organization that all collectors should trust to the highest degree. Dr. James Beckett is proud of their current business model, I'm sure.

[cking]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Doubt it. There was only one slabbed 8 before this one. If it was this card, it was immediately cracked and auctioned raw given the timing. The original grade would have been as RCR.

So you are saying the statements up above about the card being graded an 8 on two diffrent occasions are a lie?

[mjohnatgt]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

If I were the owner of that LeBron I'd turn the tables and seek restitution from PWCC and/or Beckett.

Why Beckett; did they have a grade guarantee 15 years ago?

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by cking

So you are saying the statements up above about the card being graded an 8 on two diffrent occasions are a lie?

I said there was only one slabbed 8 before the card was put in the 9.5 holder.

[cking]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

I said there was only one slabbed 8 before the card was put in the 9.5 holder.

So it was the same card...just graded twice?

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by cking

So it was the same card...just graded twice?

How much longer do you want to try to bait me into saying what you want me to say?

If it is trimmed, nobody knows definitely the history of the damn card except for the alleged owner from HK and whoever bought it from him.

[mjohnatgt]

Sounds like it was graded at least four times now.
1) BGS 8
2) BGS 8
3) BGS 9.5
4) BGS 9.5

[cking]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

How much longer do you want to try to bait me into saying what you want me to say?

If it is trimmed, nobody knows definitely the history of the damn card except for the alleged owner from HK and whoever bought it from him.

I dont want you to say anything.

I am just curious why one person states the card was graded twice and another states it was not.

I am just looking for some clarification.

If you think I am trying to bait you into something, then how about this.

Can someone other that Khal tell me if the card was graded an 8 on two diffrent occasions or was it only graded once?

Is that better. You think this is personal and I can promise you its not.

I would just like an answer.

So how about you dont answer and let someone else answer if you think its personal.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by cking

I dont want you to say anything.

I am just curious why one person states the card was graded twice and another states it was not.

I am just looking for some clarification.

If you think I am trying to bait you into something, then how about this.

Can someone other that Khal tell me if the card was graded an 8 on two diffrent occasions or was it only graded once?

Is that better. You think this is personal and I can promise you its not.

I would just like an answer.

So how about you dont answer and let someone else answer if you think its personal.

The allegation is that the card was RCR'd as an 8. Later slabbed as an 8 (by the same person). Then cracked and sold raw. Then trimmed. Then slabbed as a 9.5.

[cking]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

The allegation is that the card was RCR'd as an 8. Later slabbed as an 8 (by the same person). Then cracked and sold raw. Then trimmed. Then slabbed as a 9.5.

Thanks. Thats what I was curious about.

They should send it to Eagle Eye Joe....then it will come back a Black Label 10 and have completed the full grading cycle.