2016 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - All Politics & Dumb Opinions Here

[tke1600]

Originally Posted by Ephland

It could also be because Trump's character is very much a question mark. Significantly more so than Clinton's.

Clinton's character is by far more important right now to most. She hasn't even been in the public to answer many things, and when she has said stuff it's been lies. Just from the email scandal alone, when someone needs immunity from the FBI and then pleads the 5th, they are not innocent.

[chezball]

I saw Houdini posted early this morning. So I was wondering if NYCAM got popped for his posts, sure enough he did. Some of his posts would have made Trump blush. Wondering if he got asked to not return to this thread.

[ensbergcollecto]

I saw it said in a video a few weeks back but it still rings true. Hillary has never acted like this is an election. She has acted like this is a coronation. Like this presidency is her right and not something she has to earn.

[Ephland]

Originally Posted by tke1600

Clinton's character is by far more important right now to most. She hasn't even been in the public to answer many things, and when she has said stuff it's been lies. Just from the email scandal alone, when someone needs immunity from the FBI and then pleads the 5th, they are not innocent.

I think you may have picked up some incorrect information there. But I'll play along and say that even if she were guilty of everything people accuse her of (spoiler alert, she's not), her character would still be miles better than Donald Trump's.

Originally Posted by ensbergcollecto

I saw it said in a video a few weeks back but it still rings true. Hillary has never acted like this is an election. She has acted like this is a coronation. Like this presidency is her right and not something she has to earn.

I guess if you really hate her, you could think that.

[ensbergcollecto]

Originally Posted by Ephland

I think you may have picked up some incorrect information there. But I'll play along and say that even if she were guilty of everything people accuse her of (spoiler alert, she's not), her character would still be miles better than Donald Trump's.

so if she committed treason and gave government positions to people who had bribed their way into those roles she would still have better character than trump? ok

[tke1600]

Originally Posted by Ephland

I think you may have picked up some incorrect information there. But I'll play along and say that even if she were guilty of everything people accuse her of (spoiler alert, she's not), her character would still be miles better than Donald Trump's.



I guess if you really hate her, you could think that.

Trump is accused of what he did and what he believed as a businessman and how that now relates to policy. Clinton is accused of things that she did during her political career. That is a big difference to me and a lot of other people. The Clinton's getting rich during her time as SOS, the Benghazi mess, and the current email scandal while she was a gov't employee are way more worrisome to me than what Trump did or did not do while breaking no laws as a businessman.

[irfuji]

Originally Posted by tke1600

To me, everything you pointed out that he "admitted" to is not really what happened, which is why this is such a battle between those fighting for the truth and the MSM.

1. He actually paid the architect but not the full amount since he "didn't do the best job" according to Trump. It's not a good thing to have a budget battle with contractors, but this is far from stiffing someone like they are trying to portray.

2. When he said he paid "no tax" or "little tax", it was from a question that Clinton brought up about one or two returns from a long time ago. Business people will have up and down years where they pay little tax one year when they spend a lot, but then pay tons another year when they bear profits. But this one answer is spun into "He never pays taxes and is hiding it now".

3. He never admitted to the housekeeper remark. He didn't even answer it. He only admitted to saying bad stuff about Rosie. This is spun into he hates women and then people think he did say all the bad stuff that they run ads with.

I'm far from blindly following Trump, but he and Bernie were the only candidates willing to try and break up the elitist corruption in politics and that is more important to me right now.

I'm actually far more concerned that Trump will be the more corrupt one if elected.

People like to point to Hillary and the so called pay for play with her foundation issue, despite it being researched and found to look much worse than it actually is. The biggest thing people point to is a deal in which a plot of land was sold to Russia when she was Secretary of State. What isn't reported or considered is that something like 7 or 8 other government agencies had to sign off on that deal.

John Oliver, who has skewered both Hillary and Trump. He did a great comparison on the scandals. Video Here

Trump has proved time and time again that he is able to be purchased. Licensing his name is to people is a nice way to get money. But he goes further. Trump University, which was a complete scam, is a prime example. He actively participated in the advertising and marketing of that scheme. Said things that were proven to be 100% false.

He's also proved that he doesn't care about the global market and implications of issues in other countries. His comments about Brexit are a prime example. He flat out said that when the pound goes down more people go to his golf course (Turnberry). Ignoring the massive implications of the UK leaving the EU and the fact that pretty much every single economist who has studied the implications all agree it's a huge negative for the UK to leave.

Personally, I don't care what tax rate he paid. I am one of those that is 100% for paying as little as possible in taxes. But the main point of him releasing tax returns, at least for me, is so that we can see who he has business dealings with. Is there any true business connection between him and Russia? Since he has no idea what a blind trust is and saying that his son (who also proved he has no idea what a blind trust is) and daughter would run the business does nothing to allay the fears of collusion, favoritism, and the massive potential of interest conflicts that will undoubtedly arise if he is President. We would need to see his tax returns so that understanding where potential conflicts of interest would/could/will arise.

I think Hillary won that debate. But I also think she didn't do as well as she could have, should have, and needed to.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by tke1600

Trump is accused of what he did and what he believed as a businessman and how that now relates to policy. Clinton is accused of things that she did during her political career. That is a big difference to me and a lot of other people. The Clinton's getting rich during her time as SOS, the Benghazi mess, and the current email scandal while she was a gov't employee are way more worrisome to me than what Trump did or did not do while breaking no laws as a businessman.

Every single thing that WaPo or the NYTimes has dug up on Trump has been about the exact same thing, over and over and over again.

"Trump said this about these people, wow"
"Trump used this money for this purpose, wow"

They're all the exact same thing, to the point now where every-time there's a new report that Donald Trump used $10,000 of his money to do this, or $250,000 of his money to do that ... nobody cares anymore because it all tracks back to the same principle. A guy trying to use the loopholes to do this, or skirt X regulation to do that. There's nothing new; and I think most anyone in the Trump camp has made their peace with who he is.

There's no scandal, there's just a loud mouth, over-spoken guy who has done with his money on a grand scale what most everyone would do with their money on a more modest scale; grow it as best as possible by twisting through the legal and tax system. That's not a character flaw to me; that's someone who's not afraid to admit he's looked out for his interests over the years.

But now, I have to believe that he's looking out for my interests going forward (or just America's interests in general). And while I smile at some of the crazy things he says, and have no illusions that he'll be able to do half the things he says he will ... I do get the impression he'll be good for this country. It needs a kick in the ass, and who better to deliver one than Donald J Trump?

[irfuji]

Originally Posted by tke1600

Trump is accused of what he did and what he believed as a businessman and how that now relates to policy. Clinton is accused of things that she did during her political career. That is a big difference to me and a lot of other people. The Clinton's getting rich during her time as SOS, the Benghazi mess, and the current email scandal while she was a gov't employee are way more worrisome to me than what Trump did or did not do while breaking no laws as a businessman.

Trump University was a massive scam that fleeced millions of dollars out of people. That's a pretty good example of breaking a law. I am fully aware that no charges have been filed (timely donation to the AG who was investigating him a while back helped delay that) and he has not been found guilty. Yet, once again, there is a massive amount of evidence that it was a scam with Trump falsely promising and misleading pretty much everyone who walked in the door.

A report on Trump's foundation found that money donated for charity purposes was used to settle lawsuits against Trump businesses. Pretty sure that's against the law.

Trump was accused of, and ultimately settled, the largest discrimination lawsuit filed by the federal government to date. Yes, he settled with no admission of guilt. At the same time the evidence against him, and his own words about how active he was in the management of the company (even saying he helped collect rent) prove that he is/was far from innocent.

[Clarka3]

Originally Posted by cruiserdaddy7

Trump is a business man running for President. I feel like people forget that. He used the laws to his advantage to turn a profit. There is nothing wrong with that. If you feel the laws are flawed, blame the politicians including Clinton and her husband.

there isn't anything wrong with using the system, but he needs to own it. He's not going to gain points with the middle class that pays taxes while making tons less than him, but that's the system. He needs to own it.

Originally Posted by TheHeel

Ouch

The POLITICO Wrongometer: Fact checking the 2016 presidential debates - POLITICO

the two other fact check sites I saw also destroyed Trump this time. What's distressing is that it doesn't seem to have had any effect, which is why i really wish real-time fact checking happens at the next debate.

Originally Posted by tacoma34

Hilary's antics and facial expressions really rub people the wrong way. She's more obnoxious then Trump and that's saying something. The only people that I see that relate with her are the condescending "educated" millennial types that believe they are smarter then everyone else and are only accepting of people that think the same as them.

I think in all, she possesses many personality traits that majority of Americans cannot look past and in a heated debate she cannot mask them. Trump has faults and didn't make excuses for them last night. He took many lumps on the biggest stage, when most were hoping to watch him self destruct.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Both candidates need to really court the millenials, because they are going to swing this and future elections. Trump had the tweeting game going, but that's about it.

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

True, he admitted to not paying an architect, said he pays little income tax (which makes him smart he says) and also admitted to the housekeeper remark ... and still the vote ran his way.

Such a strange election.

i wonder how much he'd appreciate me staying at his hotel and not paying because I wasn't satisfied?

Originally Posted by tke1600

To me, everything you pointed out that he "admitted" to is not really what happened, which is why this is such a battle between those fighting for the truth and the MSM.

1. He actually paid the architect but not the full amount since he "didn't do the best job" according to Trump. It's not a good thing to have a budget battle with contractors, but this is far from stiffing someone like they are trying to portray.

2. When he said he paid "no tax" or "little tax", it was from a question that Clinton brought up about one or two returns from a long time ago. Business people will have up and down years where they pay little tax one year when they spend a lot, but then pay tons another year when they bear profits. But this one answer is spun into "He never pays taxes and is hiding it now".

3. He never admitted to the housekeeper remark. He didn't even answer it. He only admitted to saying bad stuff about Rosie. This is spun into he hates women and then people think he did say all the bad stuff that they run ads with.

I'm far from blindly following Trump, but he and Bernie were the only candidates willing to try and break up the elitist corruption in politics and that is more important to me right now.

have you read the interview they were referring to for item number 1? That was terrible. He was owed 140k for his services. He got bullied by Trump staffers and told that he would basically have to take 50k. Dude sent a 50K bill and it wasn't paid. Trump paid him half (25k).

Forbes Welcome

smart businessman, sure, but also very uncool and would definitely have lost in court had the architect had the money and time to fight it in court.


as far as number 2- he'd EASILY be able to put this to bed by releasing his returns. there is nothing stopping him from doing so.

Originally Posted by ensbergcollecto

I saw it said in a video a few weeks back but it still rings true. Hillary has never acted like this is an election. She has acted like this is a coronation. Like this presidency is her right and not something she has to earn.

yep, i saw it in the primary. She didn't really acknowledge Sanders existed, which is why she hasn't pulled all of his voter base into her fold.

[jarrodsalas]

To the people saying she has not lied or done any wrong. Say this to yourself....


33,000 missing emails and her team pleads the fifth. She has done no wrong.

Truly comical if you believe it. And it is just the tip of the iceberg with her.

[tke1600]

Originally Posted by Clarka3

there isn't anything wrong with using the system, but he needs to own it. He's not going to gain points with the middle class that pays taxes while making tons less than him, but that's the system. He needs to own it.




the two other fact check sites I saw also destroyed Trump this time. What's distressing is that it doesn't seem to have had any effect, which is why i really wish real-time fact checking happens at the next debate.





Both candidates need to really court the millenials, because they are going to swing this and future elections. Trump had the tweeting game going, but that's about it.





i wonder how much he'd appreciate me staying at his hotel and not paying because I wasn't satisfied?





have you read the interview they were referring to for item number 1? That was terrible. He was owed 140k for his services. He got bullied by Trump staffers and told that he would basically have to take 50k. Dude sent a 50K bill and it wasn't paid. Trump paid him half (25k).

Forbes Welcome

smart businessman, sure, but also very uncool and would definitely have lost in court had the architect had the money and time to fight it in court.


as far as number 2- he'd EASILY be able to put this to bed by releasing his returns. there is nothing stopping him from doing so.





yep, i saw it in the primary. She didn't really acknowledge Sanders existed, which is why she hasn't pulled all of his voter base into her fold.

Your whole argument is based on "facts" from the MSM. Are all the stories false or exaggerated? No. Are a lot of "facts" misrepresented and/or coming from the MSM agenda? Yes. CNN had a top Super-PAC organizer for Clinton come in and give his side of the debate last night. I wonder what someone with hundreds of millions tied to Clinton is going to say about her?

The reason Trump is leading in this election as of right now is that the MSM has been caught too many times exaggerating the truth and reporting false facts. At this point, no one knows what is true and what is false coming from today's "journalism", which leads people like me to completely shut down when they try and jam agendas down my throat.

This seems to be an election of the MSM vs the people. People are going to decide if the gamble on Trump on what he might or might not do as President is worth the risk of knowing exactly what you are going to get by voting for Clinton.

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by jarrodsalas

To the people saying she has not lied or done any wrong. Say this to yourself....


33,000 missing emails and her team pleads the fifth. She has done no wrong.

Truly comical if you believe it. And it is just the tip of the iceberg with her.

Not that I am supporting Hilary here, but isnt the pre requisite for being a politician is to know how to lie, cheat and steal?

[jarrodsalas]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

Not that I am supporting Hilary here, but isnt the pre requisite for being a politician is to know how to lie, cheat and steal?

Sure. And that's what is drawing votes to a Trump.

[mikecamp99]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

Not that I am supporting Hilary here, but isnt the pre requisite for being a politician is to know how to lie, cheat and steal?

Eddie Guerrero would have made a great politician.

[chezball]

Originally Posted by jarrodsalas

To the people saying she has not lied or done any wrong. Say this to yourself....


33,000 missing emails and her team pleads the fifth. She has done no wrong.

Truly comical if you believe it. And it is just the tip of the iceberg with her.

At the very least they should be charged with (obstruction of justice )
If anyone here did what they did, we'd probably be sitting in jail because we couldn't make bail. Thirteen blackberries and five ipads were destroyed.

[RossOK]

Originally Posted by zachtruitt

If Trump had the track record of Bill Gates (tons of charity work/donations of over a billion dollars), I would consider him. Not once in my 33 years on this planet have I ever seen him act like he cares about anyone but himself or his immediate family. Greed trumps all with him. He would be responsible for the welfare of over 300 million people.

This is spot on. For everyone talking about Trump's passion, the only thing he's passionate about is promoting himself and the Trump name. His only concern for America is how it can help him get his. You can see it in his business dealings where he just flat-out refused to pay for services rendered (which he admitted to last night). Or how him paying zero in federal taxes is evidence that he's "smart" instead of despicable (which is pretty comical when you pair it with his stance that some NATO countries aren't paying their fair share). He is concerned with all things Trump and nothing else.

[jarrodsalas]

Originally Posted by RossOK

This is spot on. For everyone talking about Trump's passion, the only thing he's passionate about is promoting himself and the Trump name. His only concern for America is how it can help him get his. You can see it in his business dealings where he just flat-out refused to pay for services rendered (which he admitted to last night). Or how him paying zero in federal taxes is evidence that he's "smart" instead of despicable (which is pretty comical when you pair it with his stance that some NATO countries aren't paying their fair share). He is concerned with all things Trump and nothing else.

Sure he is. "hey guys, I'm going to take 10 years off my life due to the stress of becoming President of the United States." Get real people. The guy has a nest egg for 10 generations or more.

[CrownCollector]

The biggest thing I took away from the debate is one of them is a career typical Democrat politician, the other is not. She opened a can of worms and gave him a total layup where he could have knocked her out and he missed it. Remember people, the lady stood there with a smirk on her face and said the "email thing" was a "mistake" and then did everything to get off the subject. That "mistake" and her Benghazi debacle caused American human beings to be beaten, tortured, and killed and she blows it off as just a little "mistake" move along nothing to see here. If one of those people were a family member or friend you'd probably take it a bit more serious. It's the Democratic way though, fear, chaos, destruction, and death but hey, it's just politics, #@#@#@#@ happens right? If you actually know anything about her you'd see there's a blood trail following her wherever she goes.

I can't stand Trump but one thing he said was absolutely true last night, the Dems buy the minority and inner city vote with empty lies and then do nothing for them as you can see by what's happening in all the inner cities and poor neighborhoods. It's the same old "thanks for the vote see you again in 4 years when we lie to you again".

Again, how do we get a do over with two new candidates? Or do we just wait for the winner to get impeached and hope for the best with the VP?

[RossOK]

Originally Posted by tke1600

Your whole argument is based on "facts" from the MSM. Are all the stories false or exaggerated? No. Are a lot of "facts" misrepresented and/or coming from the MSM agenda? Yes. CNN had a top Super-PAC organizer for Clinton come in and give his side of the debate last night. I wonder what someone with hundreds of millions tied to Clinton is going to say about her?

The reason Trump is leading in this election as of right now is that the MSM has been caught too many times exaggerating the truth and reporting false facts. At this point, no one knows what is true and what is false coming from today's "journalism", which leads people like me to completely shut down when they try and jam agendas down my throat.

This seems to be an election of the MSM vs the people. People are going to decide if the gamble on Trump on what he might or might not do as President is worth the risk of knowing exactly what you are going to get by voting for Clinton.

Is this the same CNN that has been rolling out (former) Trump guy Corey Lewandowski for months now?

[tke1600]

Originally Posted by RossOK

Is this the same CNN that has been rolling out (former) Trump guy Corey Lewandowski for months now?

Probably. I think they have 1 or 2 republicans out of the 9 panelists to try and come off as more partisan. Sure is working for them.

[RossOK]

Originally Posted by jarrodsalas

Sure he is. "hey guys, I'm going to take 10 years off my life due to the stress of becoming President of the United States." Get real people. The guy has a nest egg for 10 generations or more.

Nothing would serve his ego more than having "President of the United State of America" added to his resumé. He doesn't care about anyone other than himself and the Trump family/name.

[RossOK]

Originally Posted by tke1600

Probably. I think they have 1 or 2 republicans out of the 9 panelists to try and come off as more partisan. Sure is working for them.

I don't watch so I wouldn't know. Is that about the same ratio of right:left voices you'd see on Fox News?

[CrownCollector]

Originally Posted by RossOK

Nothing would serve his ego more than having "President of the United State of America" added to his resumé. He doesn't care about anyone other than himself and the Trump family/name.

The same can be said about Hillary. Wonder what her Fact Checkers would say about that. I think we should give them both sodium pentathol and hook them up to lie detectors televised on PPV. My money is on everyone being way more shocked by the skeletons in the Clinton closet, or maybe not because people know it's true but won't admit it.

[tke1600]

Originally Posted by RossOK

I don't watch so I wouldn't know. Is that about the same ratio of right:left voices you'd see on Fox News?

Fox had a panel of 1 to 3 last night a lot of the time. They basically did 1 on 1 interviews after the debate. CNN had 9 panelists after talking about it and that is when the Super-Pac guy, along with 5-6 other Dems, were giving Hillary a landslide victory.