PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc

[MIRRABB]

Holy crap that Lumley. It's like PSA is trolling. That's now a mini card.

[khodgson5]

The card may not have a connection with PWCC but the seller seems to have an angle. I'm wondering if PWCC is using other sellers to move any questionable cards. Just my speculation though.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by khodgson5

The card may not have a connection with PWCC but the seller seems to have an angle. I'm wondering if PWCC is using other sellers to move any questionable cards. Just my speculation though.

They move so many bad ones themselves LOL why bother? I think the most likely scenario is that your seller bought it in the first reported ebay sale, shipped it to the vault, and then sold it and had PWCC drop ship it.

[pip]

Originally Posted by khodgson5

I may have unknowingly become a victim of PWCC's scandal. A few days ago I purchased a 2001 Fleer E-X Drew Brees rookie card.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2001-Fleer-...rdt=true&rt=nc

Initially the seller and the card seemed to check out. However when I received the card, I noticed the return shipping label was from PWCC auctions. Since all the allegations and scandals involving this company, I vowed I would never purchase a card from them.

When I questioned the seller about the card, he said that he stores all of his cards in their vault and then has them ship the cards to customers. Of course at an inflated rate for standard shipping without any insurance on a $900 card. Had I know this auction was for a card from PWCC, I would have never placed a bid in the first place.

It seems that PWCC is now outsourcing it's card sales to other sellers on eBay. Of course none of this information was disclosed in the original auction description. I'm not sure if I should return the card or keep it as further evidence against their company. Once I return it, they will just put it aside or sell it to someone outside of eBay.

This card is very condition sensitive so of course now I suspect that it may have been altered or trimmed. Any suggestions for my course of action would be much appreciated. Thanks.

The vault is an effective way for sellers to spread PWCC's altered cards far and wide into the hobby. Let's hope this is one of the first things the FBI shuts down.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by pip

The vault is an effective way for sellers to spread PWCC's altered cards far and wide into the hobby. Let's hope this is one of the first things the FBI shuts down.

I would bet good money that won't happen.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by khodgson5

I may have unknowingly become a victim of PWCC's scandal. A few days ago I purchased a 2001 Fleer E-X Drew Brees rookie card.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2001-Fleer-...rdt=true&rt=nc

Initially the seller and the card seemed to check out. However when I received the card, I noticed the return shipping label was from PWCC auctions. Since all the allegations and scandals involving this company, I vowed I would never purchase a card from them.

When I questioned the seller about the card, he said that he stores all of his cards in their vault and then has them ship the cards to customers. Of course at an inflated rate for standard shipping without any insurance on a $900 card. Had I know this auction was for a card from PWCC, I would have never placed a bid in the first place.

It seems that PWCC is now outsourcing it's card sales to other sellers on eBay. Of course none of this information was disclosed in the original auction description. I'm not sure if I should return the card or keep it as further evidence against their company. Once I return it, they will just put it aside or sell it to someone outside of eBay.

This card is very condition sensitive so of course now I suspect that it may have been altered or trimmed. Any suggestions for my course of action would be much appreciated. Thanks.

So PWCC is clouding the chain of possession on high-value cards.

[pip]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

So PWCC is clouding the chain of possession on high-value cards.

Yes. Altered cards are being laundered.

[khodgson5]

Well put Pip. I was thinking the exact same thing. Most of these people may be unaware that they are peddling questionable cards for PWCC. Based on my communication with this particular seller, I don't think he realized the severity of the situation. Again this is totally my personal speculation.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by pip

Yes. Altered cards are being laundered.

Are you saying people are laundering their altered cards through the vault, or that PWCC is placing altered cards with other sellers?

[tconte]

Originally Posted by pspa123

Are you saying people are laundering their altered cards through the vault, or that PWCC is placing altered cards with other sellers?

I was wondering the same thing.

[khodgson5]

This is purely my opinion but it appears that way. Maybe PWCC if offering these sellers a straight commission for just selling their cards. That way the sales of such cards aren't traced back to their business.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by khodgson5

This is purely my opinion but it appears that way. Maybe PWCC if offering these sellers a straight commission for just selling their cards. That way the sales of such cards aren't traced back to their business.

I don't believe it. No reason at all for PWCC to do that. I don't think you understand their business model. They sell cards for other people, and to the extent Brent is selling his own creations, he doesn't need anyone else to sell for him.

By the way, if they were doing what you say and didn't want anything traced, why would they ship with a PWCC return address lol?

[pip]

Originally Posted by pspa123

Are you saying people are laundering their altered cards through the vault, or that PWCC is placing altered cards with other sellers?

Yes on the first, whether intentionally or unintentionally. Uncertain on the second but possible when other auction houses are considered.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by pip

Yes on the first, whether intentionally or unintentionally. Uncertain on the second but possible when other auction houses are considered.

Right but there is no way he is farming out cards to ebay sellers like the one khodsgon5 bought from. I think he misinterpreted you as agreeing with him.

[pip]

Originally Posted by pspa123

Right but there is no way he is farming out cards to ebay sellers like the one khodsgon5 bought from. I think he misinterpreted you as agreeing with him.

Yes. Didn't agree with the second thing he wrote but then again, I wouldn't put anything past PWCC, especially as it relates to creating new covert methods of funding to circumvent its agreement with the FBI.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by pip

Yes. Didn't agree with the second thing he wrote but then again, I wouldn't put anything past PWCC, especially as it relates to creating new covert methods of funding to circumvent its agreement with the FBI.

What agreement would that be?

[pip]

Originally Posted by pspa123

What agreement would that be?

To cooperate and refund.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by pip

To cooperate and refund.

Oh I think he will keep those agreements in order to stay in business and away from a harsh sentence.

[pip]

Originally Posted by pspa123

Oh I think he will keep those agreements in order to stay in business and away from a harsh sentence.

His attorney will certainly create the appearance of compliance.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by pip

His attorney will certainly create the appearance of compliance.

I am sure Brent has written a lot of checks. The problem is that while they may look like a big number in absolute terms, measured by the massive numbers of bad cards he has helped put into the marketplace, it's insignificant. Same goes for anyone else who is checkbooking their way out of real punishment that might have some chance of actually deterring some bad behavior.

[Bruins1993]

Money talks!

[Bruins1993]

Its all about money...

[khodgson5]

Regardless if PWCC is purposely involved with this situation, this whole concept just seems very strange. Why would they agree to ship cards for other sellers without any disclosure in the auction description? After contacting eBay, the representative stated this practice is a violation of their policies. Sellers are not allowed to list an auction from one location and ship from another.

[Buysellyell]

any new updates to the FBI investigation or is that a black hole of info?

[Bruins1993]

Originally Posted by Buysellyell

any new updates to the FBI investigation or is that a black hole of info?

Moreover, how about PSA's internal investigation... Any updates from PSA or was Joe Orlando's "Retrospective" article bashing collectors that cared about PSA enabling fraud all we get?