Observations on the current state of the hobby from a show this weekend

[Raleigh504]

So for mixed shows, what have you seen as a seller as the best setup? As in having Pokemon/TCG tables mixed in with sports card dealers or having the room be one side Pokemon/TCG and the other side sports cards?

I can see pros and cons to both depending on what you are selling and what is next to you

[Big35Hurt]

Originally Posted by byronscott4ever

Local promoter has one day show that’s supposed to be all sports no CCG and next day the reverse

Will be interesting to see how the crowd sizes compare. Secondary to that is which one will have the worse BO...my money is on the sports card show.

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

Cloves are a young person's thing in these parts. Pretty popular on college campuses. And they smell lovely, IMO.

The cloves back in the 70’s and 80’s sure didn’t have a pleasant aroma. From 50 years ago, today’s clove have been designed to have a more desired aroma?

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

Grading a sports card and upgrading plumbing - which is wholly unrelated to sports cards - is a weird congruity to try to draw and sell.

A Blowout member stated that it would be better to invest into property. My response was make sure you check the incoming water pipes because not all property owners are told what the quality of their soil is surrounding their incoming pipes.
Hypothetically, you could have a gas station that didn’t care about changing out their tank and allowed 150 thousand gallons of gas to escape. If testing was done and holes were drilled 400 yards away behind let’s say a trampoline business and gasoline was being indicated. The homes across the street of the defunct gas station would have a near Jed Klampett discovery except it wouldn’t be black gold. In Michigan we need to salt the stink out of the roads because of ice issues. The salt runs off the side of the roads and goes into the ground as do roots especially in the Tree City. Not a good mix but the worst is when home owners have no idea that their property value is falsely inflated. When a new business decides to put up a beautiful new hotel on that property, the cleanup is just over $3 Million. That is roughly a hundred yard location. What about where the gas has seeped to acrosss the street or at other locations such as a trampoline business?

Hypothetically, How about the homes near where a huge business may have dumped its chemicals for decades into a pond. The same pond that had hundreds of swans go belly up? The two elementary schools near that pond were said to be closed for bussing, but since the children who were being bussed were coming in from mid to lower income homes maybe it was a way for the city to sweep it under the rug? Problem is, those who live near that pond better have their incoming water checked. What appears to be higher property value to the lower or mid income homes isn’t even that.

I live in a dead end street where I’m roughly 50 feet above a creek that was horribly polluted. The city has been spending all kinds of money on cleanup. Do I believe the homes that are on near equal ground level as the creek have their homes be valued as others? A persons largest organ is their skin which absorbs the water we bath in.

When a member makes a comment that property is the way to go, make certain you understand what you are purchasing. Who would buy a Jordan rookie card for 50k or more without having it graded? Same with property but those who know attempt to hide knowledge to keep the prices inflated. Be aware, I’m not in the selected therefore I could care less about those that control knowledge, and it is controlled. I’ve had my say.

[theshowandme]

Your house is a terrible investment

https://jlcollinsnh.com/2023/03/02/w...le-investment/

[auctionjmm]

Originally Posted by Stifle

The cloves back in the 70’s and 80’s sure didn’t have a pleasant aroma. From 50 years ago, today’s clove have been designed to have a more desired aroma?

I wasn't around back then so the only clove I've ever known is the sweet smelling, sweet tasting modern clove. The aroma is like cinnamon potpourri, but sweeter. You can almost taste the sugar in the air, like when you walk past a bakery or candy store that makes their own.

[auctionjmm]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Your house is a terrible investment

https://jlcollinsnh.com/2023/03/02/w...le-investment/

I tell my mom this all the time. She's still a "mom" and pesters me about being a renter at 41, all while pouring tens of thousands into her home and has dealt with everything from a bee's nest in the attic that damaged some beams to wind damage on the roof and algae or moss on her siding that keeps growing back every year and requires a good power wash. Then all the cosmetic work of making the inside look like it wasn't built in 1999. Nice neighborhood, strong home values, only 26 years old, but when you run the numbers like some of those sites in your link, renting almost always comes out ahead UNLESS you are a cash buyer and the home is either new, or recently upgraded.

If you add up the true cost of a home, subtract the rent price for that area, and invest the difference in the S&P, it's incredible how much better you end up financially if you were renting. The S&P outpaces home appreciation (minus your expenses), by a longshot.

[Bosoxfan5990]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

I tell my mom this all the time. She's still a "mom" and pesters me about being a renter at 41, all while pouring tens of thousands into her home and has dealt with everything from a bee's nest in the attic that damaged some beams to wind damage on the roof and algae or moss on her siding that keeps growing back every year and requires a good power wash. Then all the cosmetic work of making the inside look like it wasn't built in 1999. Nice neighborhood, strong home values, only 26 years old, but when you run the numbers like some of those sites in your link, renting almost always comes out ahead UNLESS you are a cash buyer and the home is either new, or recently upgraded.

If you add up the true cost of a home, subtract the rent price for that area, and invest the difference in the S&P, it's incredible how much better you end up financially if you were renting. The S&P outpaces home appreciation (minus your expenses), by a longshot.

It's like being fed "you need to go to college."

"You need to own a home."

Why are these things they need you to do?

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

I tell my mom this all the time. She's still a "mom" and pesters me about being a renter at 41, all while pouring tens of thousands into her home and has dealt with everything from a bee's nest in the attic that damaged some beams to wind damage on the roof and algae or moss on her siding that keeps growing back every year and requires a good power wash. Then all the cosmetic work of making the inside look like it wasn't built in 1999. Nice neighborhood, strong home values, only 26 years old, but when you run the numbers like some of those sites in your link, renting almost always comes out ahead UNLESS you are a cash buyer and the home is either new, or recently upgraded.

If you add up the true cost of a home, subtract the rent price for that area, and invest the difference in the S&P, it's incredible how much better you end up financially if you were renting. The S&P outpaces home appreciation (minus your expenses), by a longshot.

That's all well and good from an investment standpoint. But most people don't own their homes as strictly an investment vehicle. That's what they do with other properties. Your personal residence is about far more than just an investment. It's about security and stability, outside of fluctuating markets. It's about giving your family a place to live without risk of some other authority. What happens when you look at your residence as an investment, so you rent and put your money into the stock market, when there is a housing crisis, not enough housing to go around, and your landlord puts you on the street, and there is nothing else available? You are stuck relying on other people for such a basic need as housing. There is tremendous value in having a basic human need taken care of, even if it costs more money in the long run. Invest in rental properties, don't view your personal residence as an investment.

[Bosoxfan5990]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

I tell my mom this all the time. She's still a "mom" and pesters me about being a renter at 41, all while pouring tens of thousands into her home and has dealt with everything from a bee's nest in the attic that damaged some beams to wind damage on the roof and algae or moss on her siding that keeps growing back every year and requires a good power wash. Then all the cosmetic work of making the inside look like it wasn't built in 1999. Nice neighborhood, strong home values, only 26 years old, but when you run the numbers like some of those sites in your link, renting almost always comes out ahead UNLESS you are a cash buyer and the home is either new, or recently upgraded.

If you add up the true cost of a home, subtract the rent price for that area, and invest the difference in the S&P, it's incredible how much better you end up financially if you were renting. The S&P outpaces home appreciation (minus your expenses), by a longshot.

Also, what happens when an absolute trash neighbor moves in next to you when you own vs. when you rent?

You're much less liquid trying to sell a house next to a problem neighbor who may not upkeep their property, etc. vs. getting out of a rental agreement due to a problem neighbor.

[NYRE2PECT]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

That's all well and good from an investment standpoint. But most people don't own their homes as strictly an investment vehicle. That's what they do with other properties. Your personal residence is about far more than just an investment. It's about security and stability, outside of fluctuating markets. It's about giving your family a place to live without risk of some other authority. What happens when you look at your residence as an investment, so you rent and put your money into the stock market, when there is a housing crisis, not enough housing to go around, and your landlord puts you on the street, and there is nothing else available? You are stuck relying on other people for such a basic need as housing. There is tremendous value in having a basic human need taken care of, even if it costs more money in the long run. Invest in rental properties, don't view your personal residence as an investment.

This fits me largely.

A single grandmother raised me, we moved a lot, and always because somebody said that we had to. Never our choice.

I wanted to buy a house so that nobody could ever tell me and my family to go.

Now, it has appreciated nicely since 2008, but that's an entirely ancillary benefit.

[auctionjmm]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

That's all well and good from an investment standpoint. But most people don't own their homes as strictly an investment vehicle. That's what they do with other properties. Your personal residence is about far more than just an investment. It's about security and stability, outside of fluctuating markets. It's about giving your family a place to live without risk of some other authority. What happens when you look at your residence as an investment, so you rent and put your money into the stock market, when there is a housing crisis, not enough housing to go around, and your landlord puts you on the street, and there is nothing else available? You are stuck relying on other people for such a basic need as housing. There is tremendous value in having a basic human need taken care of, even if it costs more money in the long run. Invest in rental properties, don't view your personal residence as an investment.

I completely agree with all of this. I don't "tout" renting unsolicited to anyone who owns a home for the reasons you mentioned above. It's just a good counterargument when someone questions why I would choose to rent over own. I have the equivalent of a down payment in the market right now but I'm choosing not to use it for that. I'm also single and know that every 12 months I have the choice to packup if I want to. If I were married, 3 kids, needing lots of space and a good school district, I would absolutely buy.

[kipgen]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

I completely agree with all of this. I don't "tout" renting unsolicited to anyone who owns a home for the reasons you mentioned above. It's just a good counterargument when someone questions why I would choose to rent over own. I have the equivalent of a down payment in the market right now but I'm choosing not to use it for that. I'm also single and know that every 12 months I have the choice to packup if I want to. If I were married, 3 kids, needing lots of space and a good school district, I would absolutely buy.

This is the most important piece for me right now

Buying a house basically means you're willing to stay in that place for decades and I haven't found a place like that yet

[backtothe50s]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

I'm old enough to remember Beanie Babie dealers setting up at card shows in the 90s, but I never viewed sports cards and BB as the same hobby. I don't agree with people saying "Pokemon is the future of the sports card hobby" or "Smart dealers should start selling Pokemon". If you are sports guy, nothing wrong with sticking to sports. If you are a Pokemon guy, nothing wrong with that. If you want to do both, that's great too. Card shops sold Beanie Babies. Let's stop pretending that they are the same hobby though. It's not even the same customer base for the most part. It's two different worlds that somehow joined together under one roof while remaining separate in all other ways. Like when Taco Bell and Pizza Hut operated under one roof (do any of those still exist?). It's a weird combo but it's working for now and nobody knows how long that will last.

Maybe another spin on it or another way to say it is, a person can make more money selling Pokémon cards versus selling baseball cards since Pokémon is red red hot and popular. I agree they are two different hobby’s but I feel now and in the future that Pokémon cards will make sellers more money than modern cards now. I wonder for those that set up at card shows, if you put a dollar box, quarter box or whatever box you want to call it of Pokémon cards out , if you eyes see an increase in not only sales but traffic to your table? Might make for a nice little experiment to see if Pokémon cards are the wave of the future! (Over sports cards).

[Big35Hurt]

Originally Posted by backtothe50s

Maybe another spin on it or another way to say it is, a person can make more money selling Pokémon cards versus selling baseball cards since Pokémon is red red hot and popular. I agree they are two different hobby’s but I feel now and in the future that Pokémon cards will make sellers more money than modern cards now. I wonder for those that set up at card shows, if you put a dollar box, quarter box or whatever box you want to call it of Pokémon cards out , if you eyes see an increase in not only sales but traffic to your table? Might make for a nice little experiment to see if Pokémon cards are the wave of the future! (Over sports cards).

Our local board game shop also deals in Pokemon and MTG cards (new and used). They have a massive amount of both in 3200-count boxes for $0.25/each or 5 for $1.00 and no one ever seems to be looking through them. I am surprised to be honest with as hot as Pokemon is these days.

[mfw13]

Here's the thing....people have emotional attachments to sports cards because they have emotional attachments to their favorite teams/players.

Pokemon doesn't have that....there are no teams or players, nor any association with specific geographic locations.

I grew up in San Francisco and will always been a Giants & 49ers fan. I'll always collect Willie McCovey, Willie Mays, Will Clark, Buster Posey, Tim Lincecum, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, and Ronnie Lott cards.

Collectible games like Pokemon & Magic the Gathering will never have that level of emotional connections with collectors, which is why their popularity comes and goes, but is never sustainable.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Here's the thing....people have emotional attachments to sports cards because they have emotional attachments to their favorite teams/players.

Pokemon doesn't have that....there are no teams or players, nor any association with specific geographic locations.

I grew up in San Francisco and will always been a Giants & 49ers fan. I'll always collect Willie McCovey, Willie Mays, Will Clark, Buster Posey, Tim Lincecum, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, and Ronnie Lott cards.

Collectible games like Pokemon & Magic the Gathering will never have that level of emotional connections with collectors, which is why their popularity comes and goes, but is never sustainable.

you are too old to "get it" when it comes to Pokemon and that is perfectly fine.

but to say that the Pokemon collector has no emotional attachment to characters (like sports folks like players) is foolish to say the least

[Rage]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Here's the thing....people have emotional attachments to sports cards because they have emotional attachments to their favorite teams/players.

Pokemon doesn't have that....there are no teams or players, nor any association with specific geographic locations.

I grew up in San Francisco and will always been a Giants & 49ers fan. I'll always collect Willie McCovey, Willie Mays, Will Clark, Buster Posey, Tim Lincecum, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, and Ronnie Lott cards.

Collectible games like Pokemon & Magic the Gathering will never have that level of emotional connections with collectors, which is why their popularity comes and goes, but is never sustainable.

You could not be more wrong

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by Rage

You could not be more wrong

Gotta agree with you. I think Pokemon is silly, but the amount of people who love it is crazy. And fads don't last this long. Pokemon has been around for 20+ years now and definitely isn't a fad. I don't do much with TCG stuff, but I'm aware enough to know the demand is legit and isn't going anywhere. Just wait till Pokemon starts adding serial numbered cards into theirs sets (unless they have and I am that far out of the loop). From the little I know I have seen areas where they can grow and become even more popular if they choose.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Here's the thing....people have emotional attachments to sports cards because they have emotional attachments to their favorite teams/players.

Pokemon doesn't have that....there are no teams or players, nor any association with specific geographic locations.

I grew up in San Francisco and will always been a Giants & 49ers fan. I'll always collect Willie McCovey, Willie Mays, Will Clark, Buster Posey, Tim Lincecum, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, and Ronnie Lott cards.

Collectible games like Pokemon & Magic the Gathering will never have that level of emotional connections with collectors, which is why their popularity comes and goes, but is never sustainable.

As per the above posters, there are plenty of people with emotional attachments to Disney characters.

[jjcan]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

you are too old to "get it" when it comes to Pokemon and that is perfectly fine.

but to say that the Pokemon collector has no emotional attachment to characters (like sports folks like players) is foolish to say the least

Yeah this, There are tens of thousands of kids running down the street at Comic Cons and Anime and toy aisles and Birthday Parties and Sleep overs, across the world wearing Pikachu shirts, screaming "PIKA PIKA".

I think there are maybe 100 kids in New York wearing an Aaron Judge Shirt with his face plastered over it, saying they are going to hit a Dinger or a Dong when they play in a baseball game next. Maybe in a video game at this point.

"PIKA, PIKA " with emotion btw.

I mean, who ever like those Batman, Superman Fads.. BLAH.. I need to find a Cloud.

[Big35Hurt]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Here's the thing....people have emotional attachments to sports cards because they have emotional attachments to their favorite teams/players.

Pokemon doesn't have that....there are no teams or players, nor any association with specific geographic locations.

I grew up in San Francisco and will always been a Giants & 49ers fan. I'll always collect Willie McCovey, Willie Mays, Will Clark, Buster Posey, Tim Lincecum, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, and Ronnie Lott cards.

Collectible games like Pokemon & Magic the Gathering will never have that level of emotional connections with collectors, which is why their popularity comes and goes, but is never sustainable.

Yes, people who collect sports cards have emotional attachments to real life players. There is no disputing that. But to say that people don't have any emotional connection to Pokemon or MTG is ridiculous. Some Pokemon collectors have favorite characters or sets for which there is an emotional connection tied to it. It doesn't have to be real life players to have that.

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Here's the thing....people have emotional attachments to sports cards because they have emotional attachments to their favorite teams/players.

Pokemon doesn't have that....there are no teams or players, nor any association with specific geographic locations.

I grew up in San Francisco and will always been a Giants & 49ers fan. I'll always collect Willie McCovey, Willie Mays, Will Clark, Buster Posey, Tim Lincecum, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, and Ronnie Lott cards.

Collectible games like Pokemon & Magic the Gathering will never have that level of emotional connections with collectors, which is why their popularity comes and goes, but is never sustainable.

Yikes

[auctionjmm]

MFW is having a rough day. Getting torched in two threads at once and still won't give up.

[csmtampa]

I’m at a small Tampa show today. The room is packed!

Tampa & Clearwater shows always have good foot traffic

Hobby is alive and well down here