PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc - Page 285

pip · 01-23-2021, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5CentWaxPack

That post may have cost PWCC another $750.

Lichtman is assuming Brent actually listens to him.

Empty77 · 01-24-2021, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip

You don't think the marks on the Aaron (face, hat, back of umpire) were colored in?

At this distance that looks most to me like dust-debris on the slab or scanner bed.

Pink Pussycat · 01-24-2021, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken161

Putting aside the alteration, this 68 Mays is a great illustration of the folly of chasing a slabbed number. IMO, the eye appeal of the card has barely been improved (if at all). It's certainly not worth forking over an extra $1700.

Grading is just too subjective. A lot of old-timers were skeptical back in the early/mid 90s when PSA took off. Like an idiot, I didn't listen. And it's led to levels of corruption that probably some of PSA's harshest critics at the time could hardly have imagined. So glad I'm selling off my plastic. Never get cheated.

This sums it up perfectly, and I agree 100%. The Emperor's Clothes, taken to a new level of absurdity. There will be a day (not too far off) that these number chasers will be made to look incredibly foolish.

Almost as foolish as PSA, for not investing in simple blacklights.

qdoggmets · 01-24-2021, 07:00 PM

Ok. Exactly. The card should be reported and decertified until the current owner sends it to them for examination, with their will or against their will.

If there is not a direct hotline for Jeff D Bag to call and make that happen then I do not aee how he is helping anyone by allowing the fraud to get worse even on things that have already been identified.

It starts by making that “asset” worthless to the current owner so they have no other option than to own it at zero dollars or get retribution through los dos scumbagos.

Badger Ben · 01-25-2021, 03:00 AM

I need more Card Buff!

corndog · 01-28-2021, 02:07 PM

Brent Huigens and Gary Moser teamed up again to get one of their own cards stickered by Brent.
This card has no prior sale as a PSA 3.5 until it was sold in August 2020 by PWCC - over a year after the PWCC trimming scandal broke.
Supposedly (according to PWCC) the consigner identity was unknown to Huigens,
yet surprisingly most of the cards receiving PWCC stickers were his own.

The following card has reworked/pressed corners which resulted in a professionally graded PSA grade bump and PWCC A Above Average sticker.

From the PWCC website:

PSA Certification #25229736

1935 Diamond Stars Lefty Grove #1

Value gain: $160.00

Purchased from Ebay seller wax.czar by Whitman111 on 08/08/2015 as a PSA 3 for $267.00.
Stickered and sold by PWCC on 08/11/2020 as a PSA 3.5 for $427.00.

pip · 01-28-2021, 08:04 PM

I always thought it looked stupid when card molesters tried to remove significant corner creases and the card ended up with an unnatural "corners pressed out" appearance. It would be nice if PSA automatically rejected those types of obvious alterations but I guess that's asking too much.

corndog · 01-29-2021, 12:02 PM

Brent Huigens and Gary Moser teamed up once again to get one of their own cards stickered by Brent.
Supposedly (according to PWCC) the consigner identity was unknown to Huigens,
yet surprisingly most of the cards receiving Certified High End stickers were his own.

From the PWCC website:

The following card does not appear to be altered, yet received a PWCC Certified High End sticker.

Purchased from PWCC by Whitman111 on 09/08/2016 as a PSA 5 for $308.00.
Stickered and sold by PWCC on 06/12/2018 as a PSA 5 for $547.00.

A value gain of $239.00 because of a PWCC applied sham sticker.

corndog · 01-29-2021, 01:41 PM

Brent Huigens and Gary Moser teamed up once again to get one of their own cards stickered by Brent.
Supposedly (according to PWCC) the consigner identity was unknown to Huigens,
yet surprisingly most of the cards receiving Certified stickers were his own.
This card is from the same PSA submission as the Hal Gregg card posted above.

The following card does not appear to be altered and received no grade bump, yet received a PWCC Certified Premium Quality sticker.

Purchased from PWCC by Whitman111 on 10/10/2017 as a PSA 8 for $270.09.
Stickered and sold by PWCC on 06/12/2018 as a PSA 8 for $164.50.

A value LOSS of $105.59 even with a PWCC applied sham sticker.

corndog · 01-29-2021, 02:00 PM

Brent Huigens and Gary Moser teamed up once again to get one of their own cards stickered by Brent.
Supposedly (according to PWCC) the consigner identity was unknown to Huigens,
yet surprisingly most of the cards receiving Certified stickers were his own.
This card is from the same PSA submission as the Hal Gregg and Sandy Amoros cards posted above.

The following card does not appear to be altered and received no grade bump, yet received a PWCC Certified High End sticker.

Purchased from PWCC by Whitman111 on 10/19/2017 as a PSA 8 for $405.00.
Stickered and sold by PWCC on 06/09/2018 as a PSA 8 for $313.00.

A value LOSS of $92.00 even with a PWCC applied sham sticker.

pip · 01-29-2021, 07:58 PM

On all 3 cards (1952 Gregg, 1955 Amoros, 1957 Costello), I see evidence of alteration. Several of the corners on both the Gregg and Costello have been flattened and recut (microtrimmed) to sharpen their appearance (UL on Gregg is most evident; UL, LL, LR on Costello). It also seems some background "pd" on the Amoros has been removed although that could just be scanner debris on the original image.

Bruins1993 · 02-01-2021, 02:36 AM

https://www.sportscardtalk.com/viewt...p?p=5865#p5865

Question for Jeff (and everyone else in the hobby), Has PWCC bought back a SINGLE altered card (with numerical grade) on their own will that has not been highlighted publicly by BODA?

corndog · 02-05-2021, 05:33 AM

PSA Cert #28796838

1948 Bowman Ralph Kiner #3

Value gain of $679.83

PSA Set Registry: Dr. G’s 790 collection

This card was purchased by whitman111 (Gary Moser) from Ebay seller emoncards as a PSA 7 on March 17, 2017 for $238.17.

Same card was sold by PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA 8.5 for $918.00 on April 10, 2018.

Yellow circles are print or fiber identifiers.
Red square identifies trimmed right edge.

MoreToppsPlease · 02-05-2021, 11:40 AM

:thumbsdown:

corndog · 02-05-2021, 09:59 PM

After being trimmed, this card has been sold 3 times, all by PWCC and is listed in the current PWCC Auction (see bottom of post).

PSA Cert #41365677

1955 Bowman Hank Aaron #179

Value gain of $3,732.00 (initially)

PSA Set Registry: currently for sale by PWCC

This card was purchased by an unknown buyer from Heritage Auctions as a PSA 7 on April 20, 2018 for $552.00.

Same card was stickered and sold by PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA 8 for $4,284.00 on April 10, 2018.

Yellow circles are print or fiber identifiers.
Red squares identify trimmed left and right edges.

.....

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

This card is now being auctioned for the fourth time in PWCC's current auction:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-Bowman...IAAOSw6QRgHJI3

MoreToppsPlease · 02-06-2021, 01:14 AM

Of course PWCC is breaking out all their Aaron right after his passing, especially their altered graded Aarons.

pip · 02-06-2021, 03:00 AM

Is it time to relegate the 1955 Bowman set to the same set registry trash heap as the 1948 Leaf set?

corndog · 02-06-2021, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip

Is it time to relegate the 1955 Bowman set to the same set registry trash heap as the 1948 Leaf set?

I have barely even looked around the 1955 Bowman card set due to others saying that these cards were hacked up years ago.

auburn35 · 02-06-2021, 12:33 PM

Nice work, matching up that Aaron and all the PWCC transactions.

pip · 02-06-2021, 12:46 PM

That's a really small amount that's trimmed from the right edge of the Aaron. It might make one believe that any PSA 7 1955 Bowman is a PSA 8 or PSA 9 in waiting. Now that CU/PSA is going private again and they have some extremely deep pockets, maybe they can hire a researcher to check previous sales of both graded and raw cards, the server errors at Worthpoint notwithstanding.

pip · 02-06-2021, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corndog

I have barely even looked around the 1955 Bowman card set due to others saying that these cards were hacked up years ago.

You must be referring to Steve Timmons, former valued SCD advertiser.

3124508 on COMC · 02-06-2021, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip

That's a really small amount that's trimmed from the right edge of the Aaron. It might make one believe that any PSA 7 1955 Bowman is a PSA 8 or PSA 9 in waiting. Now that CU/PSA is going private again and they have some extremely deep pockets, maybe they can hire a researcher to check previous sales of both graded and raw cards, the server errors at Worthpoint notwithstanding.

Agreed. Overlaid massive Heritage and PWCC scans to confirm that it is indeed trimmed and not recolored or otherwise altered. Of course the left edge is a bit more obvious.

3124508 on COMC · 02-06-2021, 01:04 PM

corndog · 02-06-2021, 01:56 PM

***I created a new thread for this card since the trimmer is unknown.
I am adding the info to this thread since it is a catch-all for card altering.

Purchased thru Heritage Auctions and sold thru Heritage Auctions.
Bidder and seller identity is unknown except by Heritage Auctions.
Hopefully the FBI may be able to obtain this information.

PSA Cert #28157698

1956 Topps Harmon Killebrew #164

Value gain of $13,896.00

PSA Set Registry: none found

This card was purchased by an unknown buyer from Heritage Auctions as a PSA 8 on August 13, 2017 for $504.00.

Same card was sold by Heritage Auctions as a PSA 10 for $14,400.00 on April 20, 2018.

Yellow circles are print or fiber identifiers.
Red square identifies trimmed right edge.

pip · 02-06-2021, 02:38 PM

Surely it's not the mile-wide holder gap that gives it away. Do flip collectors even look at their cards anymore?

01-28-2021, 02:07 PM	#7106
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 17,612	Brent Huigens and Gary Moser teamed up again to get one of their own cards stickered by Brent. This card has no prior sale as a PSA 3.5 until it was sold in August 2020 by PWCC - over a year after the PWCC trimming scandal broke. Supposedly (according to PWCC) the consigner identity was unknown to Huigens, yet surprisingly most of the cards receiving PWCC stickers were his own. The following card has reworked/pressed corners which resulted in a professionally graded PSA grade bump and PWCC A Above Average sticker. From the PWCC website: PSA Certification #25229736 1935 Diamond Stars Lefty Grove #1 Value gain: $160.00 Purchased from Ebay seller wax.czar by Whitman111 on 08/08/2015 as a PSA 3 for $267.00. Stickered and sold by PWCC on 08/11/2020 as a PSA 3.5 for $427.00. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.

01-29-2021, 12:02 PM	#7108
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 17,612	Brent Huigens and Gary Moser teamed up once again to get one of their own cards stickered by Brent. Supposedly (according to PWCC) the consigner identity was unknown to Huigens, yet surprisingly most of the cards receiving Certified High End stickers were his own. From the PWCC website: The following card does not appear to be altered, yet received a PWCC Certified High End sticker. Purchased from PWCC by Whitman111 on 09/08/2016 as a PSA 5 for $308.00. Stickered and sold by PWCC on 06/12/2018 as a PSA 5 for $547.00. A value gain of $239.00 because of a PWCC applied sham sticker. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.

01-29-2021, 01:41 PM	#7109
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 17,612	Brent Huigens and Gary Moser teamed up once again to get one of their own cards stickered by Brent. Supposedly (according to PWCC) the consigner identity was unknown to Huigens, yet surprisingly most of the cards receiving Certified stickers were his own. This card is from the same PSA submission as the Hal Gregg card posted above. The following card does not appear to be altered and received no grade bump, yet received a PWCC Certified Premium Quality sticker. Purchased from PWCC by Whitman111 on 10/10/2017 as a PSA 8 for $270.09. Stickered and sold by PWCC on 06/12/2018 as a PSA 8 for $164.50. A value LOSS of $105.59 even with a PWCC applied sham sticker. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal. Last edited by corndog; 01-29-2021 at 01:43 PM.

01-29-2021, 02:00 PM	#7110
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 17,612	Brent Huigens and Gary Moser teamed up once again to get one of their own cards stickered by Brent. Supposedly (according to PWCC) the consigner identity was unknown to Huigens, yet surprisingly most of the cards receiving Certified stickers were his own. This card is from the same PSA submission as the Hal Gregg and Sandy Amoros cards posted above. The following card does not appear to be altered and received no grade bump, yet received a PWCC Certified High End sticker. Purchased from PWCC by Whitman111 on 10/19/2017 as a PSA 8 for $405.00. Stickered and sold by PWCC on 06/09/2018 as a PSA 8 for $313.00. A value LOSS of $92.00 even with a PWCC applied sham sticker. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.

02-01-2021, 02:36 AM	#7112
Bruins1993 Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Stuck inside of Mobile Posts: 1,289	https://www.sportscardtalk.com/viewt...p?p=5865#p5865 Question for Jeff (and everyone else in the hobby), Has PWCC bought back a SINGLE altered card (with numerical grade) on their own will that has not been highlighted publicly by BODA? __________________ #nevergetcheated Riiiiiiiiight

01-24-2021, 07:00 PM	#7104
qdoggmets Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 209	Ok. Exactly. The card should be reported and decertified until the current owner sends it to them for examination, with their will or against their will. If there is not a direct hotline for Jeff D Bag to call and make that happen then I do not aee how he is helping anyone by allowing the fraud to get worse even on things that have already been identified. It starts by making that “asset” worthless to the current owner so they have no other option than to own it at zero dollars or get retribution through los dos scumbagos.

01-25-2021, 03:00 AM	#7105
Badger Ben Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 93	I need more Card Buff!

01-28-2021, 08:04 PM	#7107
pip Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: French underground Posts: 4,009	I always thought it looked stupid when card molesters tried to remove significant corner creases and the card ended up with an unnatural "corners pressed out" appearance. It would be nice if PSA automatically rejected those types of obvious alterations but I guess that's asking too much.

01-29-2021, 07:58 PM	#7111
pip Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: French underground Posts: 4,009	On all 3 cards (1952 Gregg, 1955 Amoros, 1957 Costello), I see evidence of alteration. Several of the corners on both the Gregg and Costello have been flattened and recut (microtrimmed) to sharpen their appearance (UL on Gregg is most evident; UL, LL, LR on Costello). It also seems some background "pd" on the Amoros has been removed although that could just be scanner debris on the original image.

02-05-2021, 05:33 AM	#7113
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 17,612	PSA Cert #28796838 1948 Bowman Ralph Kiner #3 Value gain of $679.83 PSA Set Registry: Dr. G’s 790 collection This card was purchased by whitman111 (Gary Moser) from Ebay seller emoncards as a PSA 7 on March 17, 2017 for $238.17. Same card was sold by PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA 8.5 for $918.00 on April 10, 2018. Yellow circles are print or fiber identifiers. Red square identifies trimmed right edge. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.

02-05-2021, 11:40 AM	#7114
MoreToppsPlease Member Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 8,676	:thumbsdown: __________________ IRS Tax Tip 2022-57 A hobby is any activity that a person pursues because they enjoy it and with no intention of making a profit. People operate a business with the intention of making a profit.

02-05-2021, 09:59 PM	#7115
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 17,612	After being trimmed, this card has been sold 3 times, all by PWCC and is listed in the current PWCC Auction (see bottom of post). PSA Cert #41365677 1955 Bowman Hank Aaron #179 Value gain of $3,732.00 (initially) PSA Set Registry: currently for sale by PWCC This card was purchased by an unknown buyer from Heritage Auctions as a PSA 7 on April 20, 2018 for $552.00. Same card was stickered and sold by PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA 8 for $4,284.00 on April 10, 2018. Yellow circles are print or fiber identifiers. Red squares identify trimmed left and right edges. ..... _________________________________________________________________________________________________ This card is now being auctioned for the fourth time in PWCC's current auction: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-Bowman...IAAOSw6QRgHJI3 __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.

02-06-2021, 01:14 AM	#7116
MoreToppsPlease Member Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 8,676	Of course PWCC is breaking out all their Aaron right after his passing, especially their altered graded Aarons. __________________ IRS Tax Tip 2022-57 A hobby is any activity that a person pursues because they enjoy it and with no intention of making a profit. People operate a business with the intention of making a profit.

02-06-2021, 03:00 AM	#7117
pip Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: French underground Posts: 4,009	Is it time to relegate the 1955 Bowman set to the same set registry trash heap as the 1948 Leaf set?

02-06-2021, 12:33 PM	#7119
auburn35 Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 4,318	Nice work, matching up that Aaron and all the PWCC transactions. __________________ Ashley Lelie Rookie Collector, always looking for more.

02-06-2021, 12:46 PM	#7120
pip Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: French underground Posts: 4,009	That's a really small amount that's trimmed from the right edge of the Aaron. It might make one believe that *any* PSA 7 1955 Bowman is a PSA 8 or PSA 9 in waiting. Now that CU/PSA is going private again and they have some extremely deep pockets, maybe they can hire a researcher to check previous sales of both graded and raw cards, the server errors at Worthpoint notwithstanding.

02-06-2021, 01:04 PM	#7123
3124508 on COMC BODA Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 9,373	__________________ 3124508@protonmail.com The Short Guide to the PWCC Card Trimming & Alteration Fraud

02-06-2021, 01:56 PM	#7124
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 17,612	*I created a new thread for this card since the trimmer is unknown. I am adding the info to this thread since it is a catch-all for card altering. Purchased thru Heritage Auctions and sold thru Heritage Auctions. Bidder and seller identity is unknown except by Heritage Auctions. Hopefully the FBI may be able to obtain this information. PSA Cert #28157698 1956 Topps Harmon Killebrew #164 Value gain of $13,896.00 PSA Set Registry: none found This card was purchased by an unknown buyer from Heritage Auctions as a PSA 8 on August 13, 2017 for $504.00. Same card was sold by Heritage Auctions as a PSA 10 for $14,400.00 on April 20, 2018. Yellow circles are print or fiber identifiers. Red square identifies trimmed right edge. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.**

02-06-2021, 02:38 PM	#7125
pip Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: French underground Posts: 4,009	Surely it's not the mile-wide holder gap that gives it away. Do flip collectors even look at their cards anymore?