PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc - Page 29

3124508 on COMC · 05-11-2019, 11:25 PM

Trimmed? Not trimmed? You decide. Looks like corner work at the very least.

Whitman has an eraser in his toolkit. If only that was the extent.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...kie-1894681997
https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1816510

pejc300 · 05-11-2019, 11:37 PM

Who is whitman111 - I missed that somewhere

JMANIA · 05-11-2019, 11:43 PM

Looks like card doctoring might be the most lucrative profession right now. Although maybe coin doctors do better, do not know. Oh, both types might indirectly be "self-employed" by CU which has offered them a large amount of wealth.

superdan49 · 05-11-2019, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pejc300

superdan or COMC - have you sent an e-mail to the PSA CEO? I keep meaning to, but curious if anyone has actually tried to reach him yet?

I have not, no. He can reach me at superdan49@protonmail.com, although 312 is probably the guy he should be talking to.

3124508 on COMC · 05-12-2019, 12:12 AM

Last one for the night.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...psa-1868852058
https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1540844

superdan49 · 05-12-2019, 03:53 AM

1948 Leaf Football #1 Sid Luckman from a PSA 4.5 to a PSA 8.
Value gain of $34,921!

The winner of the PSA 4.5 was w***1, who is whitman111
http://www.vintagecardprices.com/car...30&aid=3318564

The card was cracked out of its PSA 4.5 case, washed and/or whitened, had its left border trimmed and has undergone alteration to its corners. The black dots confirm it is the same card. It was graded a PSA 8 and consigned to PWCC, which sold it for close to a $35,000 profit. Was whitman111 also the consignor?
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...sid-1821994439

Note the red arrow above. That card was part of PWCC's 2016 Premier Auction #6. Why then is this card absent from PWCC's own historical sales database?
https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/sale...ms_per_page=50

Edited to add that Vintagecardprices.com links only work properly with a Gold Membership.

TheRealDeal · 05-12-2019, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

PWCC, will you be reaching out to all of the buyers of these altered cards?

Nope. Brent is too busy having his number 1 whore Leon posting love notes to PWCC instead:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=268897

hxcmilkshake · 05-12-2019, 05:35 AM

Wow quite an evening for you guys! Great finds keep it up

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

KhalDrogo · 05-12-2019, 06:07 AM

The Baugh is ridiculous. You can still see the marking on the back.

And again, the Luckman is so obviously trimmed. How does PSA allow this stuff to pass?

This won't just go away like it did when Mastro went down. Too much money and too many people involved now. Best of luck to all the parties involved.

corndog · 05-12-2019, 06:46 AM

Those were some great finds last night!
Kudos to those that take the time to research these rabbit holes that it takes going down to trace these cards.

mjohnatgt · 05-12-2019, 06:52 AM

The higher graded Luckman has additional yellow ink below the 4 on the jersey. Not sure how ink could migrate like that. The rest of the card looks the same though.

corndog · 05-12-2019, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

The higher graded Luckman has additional yellow ink below the 4 on the jersey. Not sure how ink could migrate like that. The rest of the card looks the same though.

The person doing the altering will sometimes add an imperfection to a card to throw off potential research of provenance. The dots and other paper and printing imperfections match up in numerous places on the front alone. I am sure the back would be the same.

In a little bit I have a card to post that shows an addition to a card that is intentional.

KhalDrogo · 05-12-2019, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

The higher graded Luckman has additional yellow ink below the 4 on the jersey. Not sure how ink could migrate like that. The rest of the card looks the same though.

You can actually see it faintly in the first slab. Whatever was used to wash the card appears to have washed away a layer of the blue ink, exposing that area.

mjohnatgt · 05-12-2019, 07:14 AM

If that's the case, that's also a countermeasure that the T206 forger was doing last year, adding additional creases or paper loss to obscure the card history.

KhalDrogo · 05-12-2019, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

If that's the case, that's also a countermeasure that the T206 forger was doing last year, adding additional creases or paper loss to obscure the card history.

For sure.

superdan49 · 05-12-2019, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

You can actually see it faintly in the first slab. Whatever was used to wash the card appears to have washed away a layer of the blue ink, exposing that area.

Bingo, confirming that Whitman is using some chemical cocktail rather than a distilled water bath. All his eBay feedback has been submitted to archive.org. There's nothing that can stop this from all being brought out into the open now.

ark8085 · 05-12-2019, 08:07 AM

That Sid Luckman looks so much better in its original state. Damn shame. Good job boys!

mjohnatgt · 05-12-2019, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

For sure.

I meant the autograph forger.

superdan49 · 05-12-2019, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

I meant the autograph forger.

Did they ever uncover who the T206 auto forger is? Last I read it was someone in the Ohio area, but I haven't kept up in the last few months.

qdoggmets · 05-12-2019, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspa123

I agree. They might be OK for the most part at technical grades. But as to their ability to spot alteration, well, it's some combination of the doctors are very good and the graders aren't.
But fraud? Highly unlikely IMO. I have seen things with BGS Star BKB that make me more suspicious of that company, frankly.

Hmm

Bernie madoff
Enron
Lehman
Worldcom
Healthsouth
Fannie mae
Tyco
Qwest
Theranos
Centenial technologies
Bre-x

KhalDrogo · 05-12-2019, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

I meant the autograph forger.

Yeah, I was just showing that tactic has been used before. Unless whoever altered the Magee wrinkled it on purpose in the process.

HarryLime · 05-12-2019, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pejc300

Who is whitman111 - I missed that somewhere

Gary Moser.

HarryLime · 05-12-2019, 09:39 AM

Great work, 312. That Mays is definitely the same card and it was definitely trimmed. In the before you can see how the side borders are either as thick as the bottom border or thicker. In the after, they're both thinner than the bottom border.

Arthur

mjohnatgt · 05-12-2019, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryLime

Gary Moser.

If that's the case, the name is very interesting if you Google it. Scams going back 20 years.

ThoseBackPages · 05-12-2019, 10:02 AM

this is horrible...

https://twitter.com/NeuhartCards/sta...66682594193409

keep this 52T Mantle (after crackout, obviously) on your radar

05-12-2019, 03:53 AM	#706
superdan49 BODA Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 4,272	1948 Leaf Football #1 Sid Luckman from a PSA 4.5 to a PSA 8. Value gain of $34,921! The winner of the PSA 4.5 was w**1, who is whitman111 http://www.vintagecardprices.com/car...30&aid=3318564 The card was cracked out of its PSA 4.5 case, washed and/or whitened, had its left border trimmed and has undergone alteration to its corners. The black dots confirm it is the same card. It was graded a PSA 8 and consigned to PWCC, which sold it for close to a $35,000 profit. Was whitman111 also the consignor? https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...sid-1821994439 Note the red arrow above. That card was part of PWCC's 2016 Premier Auction #6. Why then is this card absent from PWCC's own historical sales database? https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/sale...ms_per_page=50 Edited to add that Vintagecardprices.com links only work properly with a Gold Membership. __________________ Cardboard Detective Emeritus superdan49@protonmail.com — Anonymous Tip-line Last edited by superdan49; 05-12-2019 at 04:53 AM.*

05-12-2019, 06:07 AM	#709
KhalDrogo Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 41,208	The Baugh is ridiculous. You can still see the marking on the back. And again, the Luckman is so obviously trimmed. How does PSA allow this stuff to pass? This won't just go away like it did when Mastro went down. Too much money and too many people involved now. Best of luck to all the parties involved. __________________ I love PSA! Last edited by KhalDrogo; 05-12-2019 at 07:04 AM.

05-12-2019, 06:46 AM	#710
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 17,879	Those were some great finds last night! Kudos to those that take the time to research these rabbit holes that it takes going down to trace these cards. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.

05-12-2019, 10:02 AM	#725
ThoseBackPages Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 89,966 ThoseBackPages	this is horrible... https://twitter.com/NeuhartCards/sta...66682594193409 keep this 52T Mantle (after crackout, obviously) on your radar __________________ Pumpers Paradise #YouCryIBuy Four things that we cannot change each others minds about: Politics, Religion, Third Party Grading, and 2021 Bowman's Best Rookie Cards

05-11-2019, 11:25 PM	#701
3124508 on COMC BODA Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 9,388	Trimmed? Not trimmed? You decide. Looks like corner work at the very least. Whitman has an eraser in his toolkit. If only that was the extent. https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...kie-1894681997 https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1816510

05-11-2019, 11:37 PM	#702
pejc300 Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 10,714	Who is whitman111 - I missed that somewhere

05-11-2019, 11:43 PM	#703
JMANIA Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 539	Looks like card doctoring might be the most lucrative profession right now. Although maybe coin doctors do better, do not know. Oh, both types might indirectly be "self-employed" by CU which has offered them a large amount of wealth.

05-12-2019, 12:12 AM	#705
3124508 on COMC BODA Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 9,388	Last one for the night. https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...psa-1868852058 https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1540844

05-12-2019, 05:35 AM	#708
hxcmilkshake Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Apopka FL Posts: 11,449 hxcmilkshake	Wow quite an evening for you guys! Great finds keep it up Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

05-12-2019, 06:52 AM	#711
mjohnatgt Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Niceville, FL Posts: 14,628 mjohnatgt mjohnatgt	The higher graded Luckman has additional yellow ink below the 4 on the jersey. Not sure how ink could migrate like that. The rest of the card looks the same though.

05-12-2019, 07:14 AM	#714
mjohnatgt Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Niceville, FL Posts: 14,628 mjohnatgt mjohnatgt	If that's the case, that's also a countermeasure that the T206 forger was doing last year, adding additional creases or paper loss to obscure the card history.

05-12-2019, 08:07 AM	#717
ark8085 Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Ct Posts: 1,979 Redic211	That Sid Luckman looks so much better in its original state. Damn shame. Good job boys!

05-12-2019, 09:39 AM	#723
HarryLime Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Spaceball 1 Posts: 4,794	Great work, 312. That Mays is definitely the same card and it was definitely trimmed. In the before you can see how the side borders are either as thick as the bottom border or thicker. In the after, they're both thinner than the bottom border. Arthur