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Old 11-21-2014, 01:14 PM   #701
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2014 Panini Flawless Roger Staubach Greats Patch Auto Ruby 11 15 Encased | eBay

2014 Panini Flawless Tony Romo 3 Color Patch Auto 25 Cowboys | eBay


I know, I know, call me a conspirator... and I know that the Cowboys have had the same uniform for God knows how long, but... Wouldn't the Staubach fade after 30+ years?



SCRATCH THIS. Found my answer. The ink they used in the time of Staubach apparently held up rather well.
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Old 11-21-2014, 01:19 PM   #702
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1993 or 1994 Pro Bowl Jersey...

But HOW did they get that?

Chances are he only wore one.

That's what I was thinking as well...Pro Bowl, but like you, not sure how they got it.

Topps and DLP used game worn Pro Bowl jerseys in some late 90s, early 2000s releases, so this one is highly suspect at the moment for being an authentic game worn piece.
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Old 11-21-2014, 01:21 PM   #703
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2014 Flawless Greats Bo Jackson 3 Colors Patch Auto 06 25 Raiders | eBay

Have the Raiders ever work a two tiered patch jersey? The bottom patch is the one in question. Pants maybe?
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Old 11-21-2014, 01:26 PM   #704
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Originally Posted by bigaust001 View Post
2014 Panini Flawless Demaryius Thomas Gold Auto D 10 GW 2 Color Patch Denver | eBay

Wouldn't his name be on a nameplate that doesn't have holes? The ones on NFL auction do... Event worn?
Looks to me to be between the O and L on his nameplate.

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Old 11-21-2014, 01:26 PM   #705
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Edit: Never-mind, I saw the heritage auctions post about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwheeler27 View Post
Are you sure?

This video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYXUb6mUEtY

...states the jersey they put into their products was from a game-worn 1962 all-star jersey. Ernie Davis never played football in 1962 for any team.

You are right about him being dressed as he ran onto the field in a preseason game, (although that absolutely does NOT count as "playing" in that game). He was dressed in a nice shirt, tie and tweed jacket. Definitely NOT the so-called 1962 game-used college all-star game portrayed in that Panini teaser video, which is supposedly what they inserted into their product and wrongfully labeled.

I will say this again, as I have said many times:

Ernie Davis never played in an NFL game. Not a preseason game. Not a regular season game. However, I have shown an example of a Panini card stating the memorabilia on the front came from a game-used Ernie Davis NFL jersey.

Furthermore, he never played in any 1962 all-star game. There is enormous doubt the jersey posted in that video was ever game-worn.
In his own words:

Quote:
I was scheduled to report for practice for the All-American Bowl game, which was in Buffalo on June 29. I would have liked to skip it, but I didn't think I could without stirring up a fuss. The game turned out to be a personal disappointment, even though our eastern team won. I was used mostly as a blocker and got to carry the ball very little.
And from a bio

Quote:
His lone appearance for the Browns came during a pre-season game against the Pittsburgh Steelers, when he ran on the field wearing his Cleveland jersey to thunderous cheers from the crowd of 78,000 at Municipal Stadium.
That's game worn. He may not have played in it, but he wore it for the game.
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Last edited by arkeeper; 11-21-2014 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 11-21-2014, 01:52 PM   #706
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Pardon me if I haven't read 29 pages but I mentioned in another BO posting that if someone believes fraud has occurred or something is fishy, people can file complaints with the attorney general's office. In this case it would be the Texas AG.

Granted the more information/evidence someone has the better chance there will be for customers should there be any truth to the claim. Here's the link if anyone is interested.

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/forms/cpd/form.php
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Old 11-21-2014, 01:58 PM   #707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkeeper View Post
Edit: Never-mind, I saw the heritage auctions post about it.

In his own words:

And from a bio

That's game worn. He may not have played in it, but he wore it for the game.
Ummm.....nope.

From John Brown, (someone who knew Ernie better than most people), regarding that day you incorrectly claim he wore a jersey on that field:

Before a preseason game with the Pittsburgh Steelers, Davis was introduced with the team.

"The PA announcer said, 'Here is another member of the Browns' offensive team, No. 45, Ernie Davis,' " Modell said. "The place was bedlam. You couldn't hear yourself think. It was extraordinary. The ovation he received, you can't describe it. A lot of people didn't know what he had or knew that he was really very sick. There were rumors, but still, people cheered and screamed. It was unbelievable, and that made him happy."

Said John Brown: "Oh man, that night. He had on his skinny tie, tweed jacket, nice shirt. It was like there was a hush as he walked out to the middle of the field. You had something like 85,000 people go crazy when the spotlight hit him. I'm sure there were a lot of people that were around that told their kids."


*************************

If he wore a "nice shirt, skinny tie, and tweed jacket", he did not have the college all-star jersey on, or any other for that matter.
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Old 11-21-2014, 02:08 PM   #708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportsCollector View Post
The Ernie Davis jersey was game issued, not game worn. It sold via Heritage Auctions several years ago and the fact surrounding the game are presented here: 1962 Ernie Davis College All-Star Game Jersey.... Football | Lot #82410 | Heritage Auctions

Guessing the Panini video was made in haste and facts weren't checked when the phrase 'game worn' was used.
Funny how those facts that become incorrectly stated are always skewed towards helping you sell more products.

Have we ever seen an event-worn jersey statement where the jersey was actually game-worn? LOL
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Old 11-21-2014, 02:13 PM   #709
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Quite a PR nightmare.

Sounds like Panini needs to hire a PR firm to assess their current brand standings and address how to repair their brand.

The company needs to make huge strides in operational transparency to regain consumer confidence. I've felt for quite some time that the card companies fail to offer the transparency that consumers deserve. The COAs have become a joke. Even one mistake causes irreparable damage to all former COAs. I guess it takes a SNAFU to open their eyes to a detail that has been lacking.
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Old 11-21-2014, 02:22 PM   #710
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Quite a PR nightmare.

Sounds like Panini needs to hire a PR firm to assess their current brand standings and address how to repair their brand.

The company needs to make huge strides in operational transparency to regain consumer confidence. I've felt for quite some time that the card companies fail to offer the transparency that consumers deserve. The COAs have become a joke. Even one mistake causes irreparable damage to all former COAs. I guess it takes a SNAFU to open their eyes to a detail that has been lacking.
What I worry about is that it's not that much of a nightmare for them. It's only a nightmare if it actually hurts sales. I would hope sales go down on Panini products, but I would be surprised if they did.

I can't believe they do so well on the junk they sell as it is: Score, Hot Rookies, Elite, Certified, Limited, Rookies and Stars, Absolute, Playbook, etc.

Yeah, I'm one of those people who will scale down my collecting big-time if not completely in 2016...
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Old 11-21-2014, 02:26 PM   #711
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Originally Posted by mwheeler27 View Post
Ummm.....nope.

From John Brown, (someone who knew Ernie better than most people), regarding that day you incorrectly claim he wore a jersey on that field:

Before a preseason game with the Pittsburgh Steelers, Davis was introduced with the team.

"The PA announcer said, 'Here is another member of the Browns' offensive team, No. 45, Ernie Davis,' " Modell said. "The place was bedlam. You couldn't hear yourself think. It was extraordinary. The ovation he received, you can't describe it. A lot of people didn't know what he had or knew that he was really very sick. There were rumors, but still, people cheered and screamed. It was unbelievable, and that made him happy."

Said John Brown: "Oh man, that night. He had on his skinny tie, tweed jacket, nice shirt. It was like there was a hush as he walked out to the middle of the field. You had something like 85,000 people go crazy when the spotlight hit him. I'm sure there were a lot of people that were around that told their kids."


*************************

If he wore a "nice shirt, skinny tie, and tweed jacket", he did not have the college all-star jersey on, or any other for that matter.
Ha I see now where the actual piece in the "NFL game worn" cards is also the blue piece. So they just totally f'd up the wording. He has jersey pieces in 2010 National Treasures too!

Funny since they state he never played a down themselves. https://paniniamerica.wordpress.com/...ures-football/
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Old 11-21-2014, 02:28 PM   #712
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What I worry about is that it's not that much of a nightmare for them. It's only a nightmare if it actually hurts sales. I would hope sales go down on Panini products, but I would be surprised if they did.

I can't believe they do so well on the junk they sell as it is: Score, Hot Rookies, Elite, Certified, Limited, Rookies and Stars, Absolute, Playbook, etc.

Yeah, I'm one of those people who will scale down my collecting big-time if not completely in 2016...
It's part because the distributors buy it. There are a lot of allocations on the high-end stuff (NT, Flawless) based on how much of the low-end crap is bought. So it just keeps going down the pipeline. Panini sells out of it, the distributors then force it to retailers so they have access to the better/popular/high-end products, but a majority of the time it just sits on shelves. Eventually the prices on the stuff is down, so most people down the line hope to break even and Panini is still the one that profits.
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Old 11-21-2014, 02:32 PM   #713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skootown View Post
What I worry about is that it's not that much of a nightmare for them. It's only a nightmare if it actually hurts sales. I would hope sales go down on Panini products, but I would be surprised if they did.

I can't believe they do so well on the junk they sell as it is: Score, Hot Rookies, Elite, Certified, Limited, Rookies and Stars, Absolute, Playbook, etc.

Yeah, I'm one of those people who will scale down my collecting big-time if not completely in 2016...
I have not purchased a box of cards since 2008. It has nothing to do with Panini, though the timing correlates. I've bought their singles, though I've refrained from buying for personal reasons this year. I've grown bored with the hobby.

Many, if not most who comment about 'boycott' fail to understand that by buying secondary cards, but refraining from boxes is not a boycott. I'm not referring to you, just the general feel of those who are upset. If those who want to make a revenue difference really want to make a difference then they must refrain from group breaks and buying singles, no matter the age. Even the trading of their product benefits the company if it pulls another into their consumer circle.

Purchase boycotts almost never work because they are basically the consumer form of a cartel and someone always cheats. If enough people boycott, the prices will fall and some of the boycotters will cheat and return to buying.
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Old 11-21-2014, 02:36 PM   #714
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I question a lot of these HOF players that have game worn stuff in cards from late 2000's on. Were do they get these how do they stay in such good shape after 30-50 years later? That's why I thought at too does game worn count when they were at a team alumni day were they are introduced before the game wearing a jersey and then the card company then buys them claiming game worn since it was worn on a game day? Just happens to be decades after they retired?
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Old 11-21-2014, 02:54 PM   #715
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Originally Posted by bigaust001 View Post
2014 Flawless Greats Bo Jackson 3 Colors Patch Auto 06 25 Raiders | eBay

Have the Raiders ever work a two tiered patch jersey? The bottom patch is the one in question. Pants maybe?
You can see here the white jerseys had thin silver lining around the numbers.

http://sports.mearsonlineauctions.co...53011f_lg.jpeg
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Old 11-21-2014, 03:06 PM   #716
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Ha I see now where the actual piece in the "NFL game worn" cards is also the blue piece. So they just totally f'd up the wording. He has jersey pieces in 2010 National Treasures too!

Funny since they state he never played a down themselves. https://paniniamerica.wordpress.com/...ures-football/
Yes, isn't that funny.

They not only screwed up the NFL wording but the college wording as well. To this point, I don't know how much value their "guarantee" is worth, sad to say.
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Old 11-21-2014, 03:12 PM   #717
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Yes, isn't that funny.

They not only screwed up the NFL wording but the college wording as well. To this point, I don't know how much value their "guarantee" is worth, sad to say.
I would argue it's worth next to nothing at this point
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Old 11-21-2014, 03:15 PM   #718
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Originally Posted by packman80 View Post
I question a lot of these HOF players that have game worn stuff in cards from late 2000's on. Were do they get these how do they stay in such good shape after 30-50 years later? That's why I thought at too does game worn count when they were at a team alumni day were they are introduced before the game wearing a jersey and then the card company then buys them claiming game worn since it was worn on a game day? Just happens to be decades after they retired?
I would bet a bunch of money that is where a lot of the HOF players jerseys come from.

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Old 11-21-2014, 03:17 PM   #719
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Given the entirety of this situation, it is actually kind of funny to me that Panini uses "The Vigilance Theme" template from wordpress.com for there Knight's Lance blog
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Old 11-21-2014, 03:54 PM   #720
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I don't think I've seen it mentioned yet, so I just wanted to call out the fact that they admitted to using "event worn" jerseys of Calvin Johnson and Joe Flacco...

So they're trying to tell us that they have "event worn" jerseys from these guys that they wore at the Rookie Premiere in 2007 and 2008, going on 7-8 years ago, when Panini was not even producing cards in America, evidently left over from the DLP buyout, and they still have jerseys/pieces left over for these guys after the countless jersey cards they've produced since then?

This is complete and absolute fraud.
"Event worn" doesn't necessarily mean that event was the Rookie Premiere.
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Old 11-21-2014, 03:59 PM   #721
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I am truly disappointed with the Panini Flawless news and now question everything I have from them. I am sure this goes beyond Flawless but no one spoke up until now. In their eyes, we are the stupid ones who continue to buy their products with whatever they put in them.

They had to have known what was going in Flawless because they do a cost and P/L projection with every product to calculate the profits. It's a shame.
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Old 11-21-2014, 03:59 PM   #722
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"Event worn" doesn't necessarily mean that event was the Rookie Premiere.
Tracy Hackler's birthday party is still considered an event right?
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Old 11-21-2014, 03:59 PM   #723
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Tracy Hackler's birthday party is still considered an event right?
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Old 11-21-2014, 04:13 PM   #724
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Do you think they have players wear jerseys while they sign cards/stickers so they can have those as 'event-worn' as well?
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Old 11-21-2014, 04:16 PM   #725
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I got some coke and pizza ready for this thread. This is a joke by Panini.
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