movies_n_more777 Fake Slabs & Deactivtions

[auburn35]

Originally Posted by NYRE2PECT

I think he is using virgin fake/knock-off slabs...those aren't crack-outs, or re-used slabs.

These don't appear to be the standard etsy/China counterfeit slabs.
With the seller shipping from PSA's backyard (Anaheim), maybe we're looking at a WIWAG part duex.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Sonnys88

What loophole? eBay spells it out in clear terms - the program is for "single" cards. If you are a buyer who buys a "lot" of multiple cards and thinks it will be authenticated by the program, that is on the buyer for not reading the simple terms of the program. And, the buyer receives a very simply worded notice with their purchase that the item(s) were NOT authenticated, and can be returned if wanted. What more do you want them to do, hold the buyer's hand and give them a literacy test to make sure they know what "single" card means?

This is not rocket science.

If you read any of the numerous threads on the authentication program, there are countless people saying "why do we have to have an already graded card authenticated again?" and that the program is useless because they can tell what is and isn't a real graded card. Clearly this is not the case.

Scammers aren't taking advantage of a "loophole". They're taking advantage of uneducated buyers. And unfortunately it will continue to happen because as the saying goes "there is a sucker born every minute".

Seriously? Ebay is literally putting the Authenticity Guarantee on the listing for lots that are miscategorized as singles. How can you not see this is a problem? You expect the buyer to be responsible to know the rules when Ebay is telling them two different things. On one hand they say lots aren't part of the program. Then on the listing a buyer sees Ebay saying this listing IS part of the program. And your position is the buyer has the responsibility to decipher which statement by Ebay is correct for that listing rather than Ebay?

[corndog]

He sold this lot for $1999.99: https://www.ebay.com/itm/11557994220...p2047675.l2557

In the first photo is a PSA 9 1965 Topps Gary Kolb that is very off center. PSA Cert #59769631

Here:



Here is a VCP transaction scan of the actual PSA 9 card that masked ID e***e purchased on August 30th: it is centered

[NYRE2PECT]

Originally Posted by auburn35

These don't appear to be the standard etsy/China counterfeit slabs.
With the seller shipping from PSA's backyard (Anaheim), maybe we're looking at a WIWAG part duex.

None of this is bueno...that Kolb! Good grief that's bad.

[cholodolo]

Originally Posted by auburn35

These don't appear to be the standard etsy/China counterfeit slabs.
With the seller shipping from PSA's backyard (Anaheim), maybe we're looking at a WIWAG part duex.

Good observation...perhaps a friendly local vendor?

Or someone disposing of defective or excess slabs.

Wouldn't be too wild of a theory to think they received a new batch of slabs and maybe found some were "damaged"...

[auburn35]

The buyer of the two PSA 7 Yastrzemski's posted a video of the return package from PSA/eBay.
Returned the deactivated slab, without further explanation.
https://twitter.com/RealJerryColvin/...einGFMmzQ&s=19

[corndog]

[NYRE2PECT]

Ouch....$5k.

[Sonnys88]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Seriously? Ebay is literally putting the Authenticity Guarantee on the listing for lots that are miscategorized as singles. How can you not see this is a problem? You expect the buyer to be responsible to know the rules when Ebay is telling them two different things. On one hand they say lots aren't part of the program. Then on the listing a buyer sees Ebay saying this listing IS part of the program. And your position is the buyer has the responsibility to decipher which statement by Ebay is correct for that listing rather than Ebay?

Yes, a buyer should understand the terms they are agreeing to when making a purchase. Do you just spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on an item that has terms attached without reading / understanding the terms?

See, I can read, and read terms before I agree to them or make a purchase that has terms involved. The Authenticity Guarantee says it applies to "Single" cards and has exceptions if I use a PO Box, etc. So, obviously if I am buying a "lot" of multiple cards that even that it says "Authenticity Guarantee" - I understand that it won't go through the authenticity program / be authenticated by eBay / PSA / CSG. That is all on me as a buyer to understand the terms BEFORE I make the purchase.

Why is that I can understand that, and others are having a hard time comprehending? What am I missing?

[Sonnys88]

Originally Posted by corndog

From 2020. Clearly this scammer has been doing this for a while. I'd hope they are on some authority's radar.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by Sonnys88

Yes, a buyer should understand the terms they are agreeing to when making a purchase. Do you just spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on an item that has terms attached without reading / understanding the terms?

See, I can read, and read terms before I agree to them or make a purchase that has terms involved. The Authenticity Guarantee says it applies to "Single" cards and has exceptions if I use a PO Box, etc. So, obviously if I am buying a "lot" of multiple cards that even that it says "Authenticity Guarantee" - I understand that it won't go through the authenticity program / be authenticated by eBay / PSA / CSG. That is all on me as a buyer to understand the terms BEFORE I make the purchase.

Why is that I can understand that, and others are having a hard time comprehending? What am I missing?

I see nothing about AG terms in listings. Here's what it says in the checkout page of AG listings:

Authenticity Guarantee
This item is verified by an authenticator before delivery.
Learn more
Free

So not only do you not see AG terms and requirements during purchases, but eBay claims the item will be verified by an authenticator.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Sonnys88

See, I can read,

Can you though? Because in this instance Ebay specifically listed that the auction was subject to the Authenticity Guarantee. Maybe you couldn't read that part? It doesn't matter what the fine print says on the tucked away policy page if the company openly says something different in the specific listing.

So not only are you mistaken about what statement by Ebay is controlling in this situation, you are also absolving Ebay of their culpability for the confusion in the first place.

I agree that people should read the fine print and know what they are getting into. But I adamantly disagree that when a company blatantly contradicts their fine print that the customer is the one responsible to clear up the confusion for the company's mistake. This is 100% on Ebay.

[kyle1707]

For a decade every since the WIWAG scandal

It’s why I have always preferred BGS

But with Psa double the price of Bgs stuff

People will always go Psa

I have heard bgs is grading numbers are way down

My 2-3 most expensive cards are in bgs holders

[fabiani12333]

AG is not a service buyers sign up for. So the terms and conditions should be laid out clearly during every purchase. It should say lots are not qualified for AG and give buyers a way to report improper listings.

[KhalDrogo]

If eBay were doing this for the good of the customer, they would give the customer the option to refuse shipment of the card after it was deemed ineligible.

[Bunny Hop]

Seeing sub-$50 cards listed ... I don't buy or collect slabbed cards for my PC, but I do occasionally buy them as gifts for folks. And, like, yeesh -- it's so shady and those cards aren't being put through the AG, soo..... Dunno, this seller is defo a crapplejack butthead and it's upsetting to see in any context.

[auburn35]

Correction, I was using the info in the Twitter thread (1st tracking shown as Anaheim) but the seller appears to be located in Minnesota, according to this complaint of resealed video games.

movies_n_more777

Jason Donley of Saint Paul, MN is selling resealed games as authentic brand new.

https://www.cheapassgamer.com/topic/...#entry14428656

[Sonnys88]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Can you though? Because in this instance Ebay specifically listed that the auction was subject to the Authenticity Guarantee. Maybe you couldn't read that part? It doesn't matter what the fine print says on the tucked away policy page if the company openly says something different in the specific listing.

So not only are you mistaken about what statement by Ebay is controlling in this situation, you are also absolving Ebay of their culpability for the confusion in the first place.

I agree that people should read the fine print and know what they are getting into. But I adamantly disagree that when a company blatantly contradicts their fine print that the customer is the one responsible to clear up the confusion for the company's mistake. This is 100% on Ebay.

Yes, it states that the listing is subject to the terms of the "Authenticity Guarantee Program". The terms of the AG program have an "Eligibility" clause in them. If I list a banana for $500 in the "trading card singles" category, it's going to say "Authenticity Guarantee" on the listing page. Obviously, they are not authenticating bananas. And obviously, there are many other exceptions to the program, where the item(s) will not qualify for the authentication program.

Eligibility
Item Eligibility
Only select listings on eBay.com are eligible for the Services. eBay reserves the right at any time, in its sole discretion, with or without notice to you, to alter or amend the eligibility requirements for Eligible Items, including, but not limited to category, and/or value of items and/or transactions.

“Eligible Items” in the Trading Cards category must satisfy the following conditions:

Category: Collectible Card Games, Sports Trading Cards, and Non-Sports Trading Cards
Card Type: Single cards only
Grading Type: Ungraded and graded cards
Price: Raw cards listed or sold at auction for $250 or more, graded cards listed or sold at auctions for $250 exclusive of tax and shipping
The following items are not eligible for Authenticity Guarantee:
Items whose listings do not bear the Authenticity Guarantee blue checkmark badge
Items listed in categories not named above
Sets, lots, kits, decks, boxes, and packs of two or more cards
Miscategorized items, e.g., other types of cards listed in eligible categories
Graded autographed cards below $250. Ungraded autograph cards below $250.
Art cards
Redemption cards
Additional cards that are gifted to buyers as a bonus and free of charge
Items purchased using an offline payment method
Listings that offer local pickup
1980’s Star Company Basketball Cards
Items shipped to P.O. Boxes
Items shipped to or from unincorporated territories (incl. Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands)
Ineligible items will not be authenticated.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by Sonnys88

Yes, it states that the listing is subject to the terms of the "Authenticity Guarantee Program". The terms of the AG program have an "Eligibility" clause in them. If I list a banana for $500 in the "trading card singles" category, it's going to say "Authenticity Guarantee" on the listing page. Obviously, they are not authenticating bananas. And obviously, there are many other exceptions to the program, where the item(s) will not qualify for the authentication program.

Eligibility
Item Eligibility
Only select listings on eBay.com are eligible for the Services. eBay reserves the right at any time, in its sole discretion, with or without notice to you, to alter or amend the eligibility requirements for Eligible Items, including, but not limited to category, and/or value of items and/or transactions.

“Eligible Items” in the Trading Cards category must satisfy the following conditions:

Category: Collectible Card Games, Sports Trading Cards, and Non-Sports Trading Cards
Card Type: Single cards only
Grading Type: Ungraded and graded cards
Price: Raw cards listed or sold at auction for $250 or more, graded cards listed or sold at auctions for $250 exclusive of tax and shipping
The following items are not eligible for Authenticity Guarantee:
Items whose listings do not bear the Authenticity Guarantee blue checkmark badge
Items listed in categories not named above
Sets, lots, kits, decks, boxes, and packs of two or more cards
Miscategorized items, e.g., other types of cards listed in eligible categories
Graded autographed cards below $250. Ungraded autograph cards below $250.
Art cards
Redemption cards
Additional cards that are gifted to buyers as a bonus and free of charge
Items purchased using an offline payment method
Listings that offer local pickup
1980’s Star Company Basketball Cards
Items shipped to P.O. Boxes
Items shipped to or from unincorporated territories (incl. Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands)
Ineligible items will not be authenticated.

Buyers of AG cards are not signing up for the service and shouldn't be expected to learn about its requirements. If eBay states during the purchase the card(s) being bought will be authenticated, it's reasonable for buyers to assume it will be.

Instead of claiming the item(s) will be authenticated during the purchase, eBay should state it might be authenticated if it qualifies -- that's a big difference. That would likely prompt buyers to read the terms and determine whether in fact the item(s) they are purchasing qualifies.

eBay is assisting scammers by stating the listing qualifies for AG when it doesn't.

[towerymt]

Originally Posted by corndog

He sold this lot for $1999.99: https://www.ebay.com/itm/11557994220...p2047675.l2557

In the first photo is a PSA 9 1965 Topps Gary Kolb that is very off center. PSA Cert #59769631

Here:



Here is a VCP transaction scan of the actual PSA 9 card that masked ID e***e purchased on August 30th: it is centered

He was pretty lazy on this one too (round corners in a 7 holder). Cert# didnt exist when I tried checking, but '59s on either side of it. Didnt say deactivated, either.

https://www.psacard.com/cert/65963946



I wonder if this is what the cert# page looks like after the fake card/slab has been pulled from circulation.

[Smarti5051]

Now that it is clear fake PSA slabbed cards are circulating, I would think PSA would WANT to verify every slab that shows up at its office (regardless of whether it technically falls within the single card AG or not). And, if the card/PSA cert. is determined to be fraudulent, PSA should not only deactivate the cert, but also contact the shipper/seller and explain the card was fraudulent. If the seller wants the card returned, they need to provide a sworn, notarized affidavit that they were unaware the card was fake. Upon delivery of the document, the card will be removed from the holder by PSA, the fake PSA cert information will be removed and the card and "broken" holder will be returned to the customer. No Ebay fees or shipping fees should be refunded to the Ebay seller. Presumably, no fraudster will actually fill out the affidavit and PSA could have a mountain of physical evidence to prosecute fraudsters once they are later identified.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Sonnys88

Yes, it states that the listing is subject to the terms of the "Authenticity Guarantee Program". The terms of the AG program have an "Eligibility" clause in them. If I list a banana for $500 in the "trading card singles" category, it's going to say "Authenticity Guarantee" on the listing page. Obviously, they are not authenticating bananas. And obviously, there are many other exceptions to the program, where the item(s) will not qualify for the authentication program.



Eligibility

Item Eligibility

Only select listings on eBay.com are eligible for the Services. eBay reserves the right at any time, in its sole discretion, with or without notice to you, to alter or amend the eligibility requirements for Eligible Items, including, but not limited to category, and/or value of items and/or transactions.



“Eligible Items” in the Trading Cards category must satisfy the following conditions:



Category: Collectible Card Games, Sports Trading Cards, and Non-Sports Trading Cards

Card Type: Single cards only

Grading Type: Ungraded and graded cards

Price: Raw cards listed or sold at auction for $250 or more, graded cards listed or sold at auctions for $250 exclusive of tax and shipping

The following items are not eligible for Authenticity Guarantee:

Items whose listings do not bear the Authenticity Guarantee blue checkmark badge

Items listed in categories not named above

Sets, lots, kits, decks, boxes, and packs of two or more cards

Miscategorized items, e.g., other types of cards listed in eligible categories

Graded autographed cards below $250. Ungraded autograph cards below $250.

Art cards

Redemption cards

Additional cards that are gifted to buyers as a bonus and free of charge

Items purchased using an offline payment method

Listings that offer local pickup

1980’s Star Company Basketball Cards

Items shipped to P.O. Boxes

Items shipped to or from unincorporated territories (incl. Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands)

Ineligible items will not be authenticated.

Congrats, you can copy and paste. Too bad you missed the point. The fact that the buyer should know the terms doesn't mean Ebay shouldn't fix the fact that listings are being labeled for the AG that aren't eligible. Both things can be true. And Ebay should be held to a higher standard here than the customer. It's not even debatable.

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

[superdan49]

Here's a nice $21,000+ sale from our scammer. 2005-06 LeBron Gold Refractor PSA 10 which has been deactivated. PSA cert 49478391:

[fabiani12333]

Now I'm going to have to check my PSA certs to see if any are deactivated.

This guy must have made serious bank with this scam.

[auburn35]

The sellers name wasn't documented in the thread and the eBay listing removed, but the fingers and background matchup with sold items from movies_n_more777.

Appears that PSA was notified about this seller in early December, on their own forums.
Fake Holder?