BGS Black Labels, Joe Clemons (eBay ID: wjc75056), and Illegitimate Grading - Page 3

jstephens24 · 05-31-2019, 10:08 AM

I tagged beckett grading, Brian Gray and leaf cards on twitter linking them to this thread

callou2131 · 05-31-2019, 10:09 AM

22 in a row??? Holy $%^& thats insane. Not even close to possible without "help"

I only pull for · 05-31-2019, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyaa

Or perhaps scrap Black Labels completely? They're tainted forever.

Beckett's employees are just a reflection of their crooked owner. Black labels were a scam day 1.
It's funny to the one's of us who were around to remember when the former owner of beckett stated that no card is flawless.

coolz · 05-31-2019, 10:10 AM

Crazy and shady AF

Rooftop · 05-31-2019, 10:11 AM

Black Labels are a Scam

superdan49 · 05-31-2019, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstephens24

I tagged beckett grading, Brian Gray and leaf cards on twitter linking them to this thread

Good, tag Sports Card News, too. They've been posting a lot of BO stuff.
https://twitter.com/SportsCardNews

ThoseBackPages · 05-31-2019, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooftop

Black Labels are a Scam

cards are a scam

mattglet · 05-31-2019, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

cards are a scam

Message board messages are a scam.

pspa123 · 05-31-2019, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyaa

Or perhaps scrap Black Labels completely? They're tainted forever.

As a vintage person it seems to me they were a gimmick all along, no?

LSUNatChamps · 05-31-2019, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by base set

The whole grading system is so obviously open to the possibilities of corruption with all the money that can be made. To not use any kind of outside auditing firm on the process ... just speaks for itself. As does routinely re-grading SERIAL NUMBERED cards.

Ego gratification of others will always be a profitable line of work, and one should really understand the psychology of that in relation to baseball cards.

Not to mention there really isn't any discernible skill or certification that these graders actually possess. That was clear when the BGS ad from Indeed was posted offering $14-$15/HR and asking for "a MANDATORY cover letter outlining your card knowledge/experience" as a pre-requisite to people whose opinions can dramatically influence the value of a card.

rainmaker · 05-31-2019, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by callou2131

22 in a row??? Holy $%^& thats insane. Not even close to possible without "help"

and if not black the other cards in these subs (virtually) all graded a pristine 10.

i do look forward to the angle we see in the response from the member in question.

tonedef2oo8 · 05-31-2019, 10:15 AM

Leaf connection check
Bidding on own auctions check
Need time to tell us the “truth” check

All we need is the infamous “you’re all anonymous therefore no one should listen” or god bless and I have bingo here.

rob024420 · 05-31-2019, 10:15 AM

I have emailed the link to this thread to both of them.

superdan49 · 05-31-2019, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspa123

As a vintage person it seems to me they were a gimmick all along, no?

Yes, a gimmick that needs to be investigated for potential criminal fraud. The ability to turn a 50-cent common into a $200 card is a huge temptation, apparently. You don't need to be Gary Moser and buy a $3,000 Mantle in the hopes of turning it into a $6,000 card. You just need to buy about $50 worth of cards and with the right grader, you have the same $6,000.

Reposting this from the previous thread as well:

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdan49

I want to know how this gets a BGS 10 on edges. If you were going to pay $10 to take a risk on grading a 50-cent chrome card, wouldn't you pick a better looking one? I guess my eye isn't as good as the Beckett grading team:

kyaa · 05-31-2019, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooftop

Black Labels are a Scam

Here's my theory on Black Labels:

I think you can argue that there is no such thing as a "legitimate" Black Label.

Black Labels were just a way to give BGS something over PSA, and graders either give them out illegitimately—as in Clemons’ case—or arbitrarily, to avoid suspicion and give BGS that something extra. You submit 50 or 100 2018 Topps Now or TC Update cards. BGS will give you 5 to 15 10s and as a nice little bonus, 1 to 3 Black Labels. The Black Labels aren’t measurably any nicer than most of the 10s or many of the 9.5s--even to the graders giving out the grades. They're just an illegitimate/arbitrary marketing gimmick.

PoPCulture · 05-31-2019, 10:17 AM

FBI should have interest in this. If this was Wall Street they would be all over it. The amount of money and fraud involved here is likely comparable to insider trading.

LSUNatChamps · 05-31-2019, 10:17 AM

What is apparent to me is how easily corruptible this entire process is. How easy would it be to have your buddy apply to what basically amounts to a slightly above minimum wage job, over grade your cards, and simply share in the profits that are generated from the sale of those cards? Sad!

3124508 on COMC · 05-31-2019, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSUNatChamps

What is apparent to me is how easily corruptible this entire process is. How easy would it be to have your buddy apply to what basically amounts to a slightly above minimum wage job, over grade your cards, and simply share in the profits that are generated from the sale of those cards? Sad!

And First Class Card Guys was born?

dasiegel · 05-31-2019, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anusinha

I love the BODA and all they do for the hobby.

They are amazing

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

cards are a scam

Oh yea, well, scams are a scam!

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoPCulture

FBI should have interest in this. If this was Wall Street they would be all over it. The amount of money and fraud involved here is likely comparable to insider trading.

tru

pspa123 · 05-31-2019, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyaa

Here's my theory on Black Labels:

I think you can argue that there is no such thing as a "legitimate" Black Label.

Black Labels were just a way to give BGS something over PSA, and graders either give them out illegitimately—as in Clemons’ case—or arbitrarily, to avoid suspicion and give BGS that something extra. You submit 50 or 100 2018 Topps Now or TC Update cards. BGS will give you 5 to 15 10s and as a nice little bonus, 1 to 3 Black Labels. The Black Labels aren’t measurably any nicer than most of the 10s or many of the 9.5s--even to the graders giving out the grades. They're just an illegitimate/arbitrary marketing gimmick.

Man and I thought the PSA 9/10 thing was arbitrary in many cases. This is way over the top. Complete obsession with what the flip says. Artificial monetization.

huskies3 · 05-31-2019, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

as much as i do not care for BGS, i do not want to see them close

monopolies are bad

Black labels are pretty dumb to begin with. Sure they look nice, but the premium from BGS 9.5 to BGS 10 never made sense to me, and the premium from BGS 10 to black label is even more ludicrous.

LSUNatChamps · 05-31-2019, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

And First Class Card Guys was born?

I don't generally buy graded cards since I never liked the aesthetics, but was this type of corruptible behavior generally identified or suspected by most collectors and is only now officially coming to light? Seems like everyone has just been blinded by the outsized profits earned from highly graded cards...

DaRitz · 05-31-2019, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyaa

Or perhaps scrap Black Labels completely? They're tainted forever.

That's what I was thinking. With the low number of overall black labels and high number from one submitter, it's almost a WJCIII personalized label. He has his own personal Beckett label which is pretty special for him, I suppose.

A black label, to me, now just says "BGS 9.5, but submitted by WJCIII."

rob024420 · 05-31-2019, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob024420

I have emailed the link to this thread to both of them.

email1 by Robert Moseley, on Flickr

That was quick

ThoseBackPages · 05-31-2019, 10:34 AM

what does it say?

05-31-2019, 10:08 AM	#51
jstephens24 Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 2,601	I tagged beckett grading, Brian Gray and leaf cards on twitter linking them to this thread __________________ At the age of 5, a bear told me only I could prevent forest fires. Why I was chosen, I'll never know https://8thwondercards.weeblysite.com/ Twitter/IG: 8thWonderCards

05-31-2019, 10:09 AM	#52
callou2131 Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Centreville, Md Posts: 8,476	22 in a row??? Holy $%^& thats insane. Not even close to possible without "help" __________________ Sent using US Airways Wifi

05-31-2019, 10:10 AM	#54
coolz Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 2,865 coolz	Crazy and shady AF __________________ http://www.comc.com/Users/coolz 85K Cards !!! Selling all my stuff in COMC, ANY OFFERS WILL BE ACCEPTED! Lots of High-end cards: Basketball, Football, Baseball, Hockey, etc

05-31-2019, 10:15 AM	#62
tonedef2oo8 Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 7,331	Leaf connection check Bidding on own auctions check Need time to tell us the “truth” check All we need is the infamous “you’re all anonymous therefore no one should listen” or god bless and I have bingo here. __________________ *“ I am very good at calculating stuff. 160+60=210 “*

05-31-2019, 10:34 AM	#75
ThoseBackPages Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 90,264 ThoseBackPages	what does it say? __________________ Pumpers Paradise #YouCryIBuy Four things that we cannot change each others minds about: Politics, Religion, Third Party Grading, and 2021 Bowman's Best Rookie Cards

05-31-2019, 10:11 AM	#55
Rooftop Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 3,508	Black Labels are a Scam

05-31-2019, 10:15 AM	#63
rob024420 Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Tejas Posts: 654 robertm_cards	I have emailed the link to this thread to both of them.

05-31-2019, 10:17 AM	#66
PoPCulture Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: In the Goldilocks Zone Posts: 8,645	FBI should have interest in this. If this was Wall Street they would be all over it. The amount of money and fraud involved here is likely comparable to insider trading.

05-31-2019, 10:17 AM	#67
LSUNatChamps Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 2,262 cfa10123 TakingStock	What is apparent to me is how easily corruptible this entire process is. How easy would it be to have your buddy apply to what basically amounts to a slightly above minimum wage job, over grade your cards, and simply share in the profits that are generated from the sale of those cards? Sad!