Class action suit filed against PSA, PWCC and Probstein - Page 3

pip · 02-13-2020, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soxfanguy

If someone gets a subpoena for my IP address I'm getting a lawyer

Right. LOL.

NickM · 02-13-2020, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

And that will narrow it down to how many people exactly? 10? 100? 1,000? Good luck.

You gave BO information about yourself when you registered. More than just your IP address.

NYRE2PECT · 02-13-2020, 10:59 AM

YES!!!!!!!!!!!

Someone tweet this to Rovell.

3124508 on COMC · 02-13-2020, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickM

You gave BO information about yourself when you registered. More than just your IP address.

True.

Scottish Punk · 02-13-2020, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip

The evidence is self evident. It would be more prudent to hire an expert witness to analyze the data.

Agreed. In the official legal sense, any lawyer will want to have the evidence looked over by an "expert". Meaning somebody with credentials on paper. I am sure the BODA guys here have enough to skill to testify, but aren't technically professionals in this field.

3124508 on COMC · 02-13-2020, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottish Punk

Agreed. In the official legal sense, any lawyer will want to have the evidence looked over by an "expert". Meaning somebody with credentials on paper. I am sure the BODA guys here have enough to skill to testify, but aren't technically professionals in this field.

Which begs the greater question of who exactly that would be. My guess is that in a criminal trial this would be a member of federal law enforcement, but in a civil case, I’m drawing a blank.

corndog · 02-13-2020, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Which begs the greater question of who exactly that would be. My guess is that in a criminal trial this would be a member of federal law enforcement, but in a civil case, I’m drawing a blank.

PSA has experts.

signed79 · 02-13-2020, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Which begs the greater question of who exactly that would be. My guess is that in a criminal trial this would be a member of federal law enforcement, but in a civil case, I’m drawing a blank.

PSA can be that expert witness, lol.

Scottish Punk · 02-13-2020, 11:17 AM

I would look at current graders and ex-graders from any of the big three. Get a few to have a consensus. Remind them they are testifying on record.

pip · 02-13-2020, 11:17 AM

I just got done reading through the civil complaint. I think it could be tighter. Lots of assumptions that will be very difficult to prove. Eric better have some money too. This could easily cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars just to get it to a court room, assuming it's not thrown out or a summary judgment isn't given. He's probably betting that other named plaintiffs will attach themselves to his civil action.

3124508 on COMC · 02-13-2020, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip

I just got done reading through the civil complaint. I think it could be tighter. Lots of assumptions that will be very difficult to prove. Eric better have some money too. This could easily cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars just to get it to a court room, assuming it's not thrown out or a summary judgment isn't given. He's probably betting that other named plaintiffs will attach themselves to his civil action.

I agree with this as well.

pip · 02-13-2020, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Which begs the greater question of who exactly that would be. My guess is that in a criminal trial this would be a member of federal law enforcement, but in a civil case, I’m drawing a blank.

As someone mentioned, former or current respected TPG graders of which there are indeed several. Industry leaders who are recognizable by their last names. Former owners of grading companies. PSA might actually be at a disadvantage here if the litigants are clever and have the right hobby connections.

HarryLime · 02-13-2020, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspa123

How does one subpoena a number?

Have you seen "Don't F--- With Cats?" If someone really wants to find someone, they can find them. Internet is crazy.

Arthur

Bob Loblaw · 02-13-2020, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip

I just got done reading through the civil complaint. I think it could be tighter. Lots of assumptions that will be very difficult to prove. Eric better have some money too. This could easily cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars just to get it to a court room, assuming it's not thrown out or a summary judgment isn't given. He's probably betting that other named plaintiffs will attach themselves to his civil action.

You realize how class action suits work, right? THe law firm fronts the costs of filing and discovery, with the knowledge that there will be a settlement to pay both their costs and fees, and allow those who have been damaged -- everyone who has bought and sold PSA cards -- a pittance of a settlement - - a few dollars or a few free gradings.

The named plaintiff himself will likely not have to pay anything up front.

jr24ai3 · 02-13-2020, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedyjg13

I would think raw will increase in value.

I don't think raw cards go up. Raw cards could be trimmed cards that PSA actually caught.

TheWrightStuff · 02-13-2020, 11:34 AM

There was a BO member who posted about a card he bought and sold being called out on here as trimmed and having to refund the buyer and go through a big hassle over it. Whoever it was needs to contact this lawyer and get in on the class action suit.

Bob Loblaw · 02-13-2020, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Which begs the greater question of who exactly that would be. My guess is that in a criminal trial this would be a member of federal law enforcement, but in a civil case, I’m drawing a blank.

An expert in a baseball card case? Any of the big buyers/sellers, any former PSa employees, BGS employees. There's no limit as to who could be the expert witness. You are essentially a private detective. Your blueprints, which you have made available for free, are now public domain and can be used - and likely will be used - to interrogate the paid experts.

3124508 on COMC · 02-13-2020, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw

An expert in a baseball card case? Any of the big buyers/sellers, any former PSa employees, BGS employees. There's no limit as to who could be the expert witness. You are essentially a private detective. Your blueprints, which you have made available for free, are now public domain and can be used - and likely will be used - to interrogate the paid experts.

Anyone you know in those sets of people want to do that? Not much upside.

Promethius88 · 02-13-2020, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip

I just got done reading through the civil complaint. I think it could be tighter. Lots of assumptions that will be very difficult to prove. Eric better have some money too. This could easily cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars just to get it to a court room, assuming it's not thrown out or a summary judgment isn't given. He's probably betting that other named plaintiffs will attach themselves to his civil action.

I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with you. While I'm no legal expert or anywhere close, I read thru the complaint and felt it could have been better. Like there is a lot missing. It seemed pretty general in nature and while I admit I read about 75% then skimmed the rest, it didn't seem super specific in a lot of the examples. Unless I missed something, there were only 3 cards mentioned when we know there are thousands more. I don't know Mr. Savoy so I'm not passing any judgement. It seems like it may have been hastily put together so that, as you said, others will attach themselves to it. Of course, the the more that jump on board, the more money for the person who initiates the lawsuit.

Soxfanguy · 02-13-2020, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip

Right. LOL.

Why wouldn't you?

pip · 02-13-2020, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw

You realize how class action suits work, right? THe law firm fronts the costs of filing and discovery, with the knowledge that there will be a settlement to pay both their costs and fees, and allow those who have been damaged -- everyone who has bought and sold PSA cards -- a pittance of a settlement - - a few dollars or a few free gradings.

The named plaintiff himself will likely not have to pay anything up front.

It's rarely done like that in reality. Usually there is a split in costs with the plaintiffs still having to front many of the basic court expenses and associated fees. In this case, I seriously doubt either of the two engaged attorneys are doing this "for free." That would just be stupid. No reputable attorney would waste his/her time and resources like that.

allabtsprt · 02-13-2020, 11:44 AM

As I said in another post. Greed will be the eventual downfall of all involved. Some people just aren't content operating honestly and earning their fair share, they want all of the money!

pip · 02-13-2020, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allabtsprt

As I said in another post. Greed will be the eventual downfall of all involved. Some people just aren't content operating honestly and earning their fair share, they want all of the money!

Good point. There's a definite lack of virtue in the industry.

cardsharkk · 02-13-2020, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinC

Wouldn't a guilty verdict in a case like this instantly devalue all graded cards?

Oh NO DOUBT! Once we find out which cards they targeted to alter,say for example the trout chrome auto.... I could see people staying away from said cards... and them falling if involved in scandal

pip · 02-13-2020, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Anyone you know in those sets of people want to do that? Not much upside.

This is true. Testifying against PSA is not like tying one's shoes. There will be repercussions. Like I mentioned, the plaintiff(s) better be well connected.

02-13-2020, 10:59 AM	#53
NYRE2PECT Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: San Antonio Posts: 8,148	YES!!!!!!!!!!! Someone tweet this to Rovell.

02-13-2020, 11:17 AM	#59
Scottish Punk Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 9,899 scottishpunk	I would look at current graders and ex-graders from any of the big three. Get a few to have a consensus. Remind them they are testifying on record.

02-13-2020, 11:17 AM	#60
pip Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: French underground Posts: 4,009	I just got done reading through the civil complaint. I think it could be tighter. Lots of assumptions that will be very difficult to prove. Eric better have some money too. This could easily cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars just to get it to a court room, assuming it's not thrown out or a summary judgment isn't given. He's probably betting that other named plaintiffs will attach themselves to his civil action.

02-13-2020, 11:34 AM	#66
TheWrightStuff Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Texas Posts: 6,831 Nathan104	There was a BO member who posted about a card he bought and sold being called out on here as trimmed and having to refund the buyer and go through a big hassle over it. Whoever it was needs to contact this lawyer and get in on the class action suit.

02-13-2020, 11:44 AM	#72
allabtsprt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 580	As I said in another post. Greed will be the eventual downfall of all involved. Some people just aren't content operating honestly and earning their fair share, they want all of the money!