Mike Trout BCA Red - $900,000

[bradical]

I don’t know how we can believe this sale price after it’s been known that VegasDave shilled his Orange Trout Autos to make them appear to be worth more than they are.

[dmanrico]

Originally Posted by bradical

I don’t know how we can believe this sale price after it’s been known that VegasDave shilled his Orange Trout Autos to make them appear to be worth more than they are.

It takes two to shill. So unless:

A) card isn’t paid for, or
B) Goldin auctions allowed the high bid to be retracted, or
C) Vegas Dave or a buddy decided paying a $180,000 fee plus another $60,000 sales tax to keep the card makes sense (which would only work if you had a second red which he doesn’t)

Then this is a legit sale.

[xbignick]

Originally Posted by bradical

I don’t know how we can believe this sale price after it’s been known that VegasDave shilled his Orange Trout Autos to make them appear to be worth more than they are.

I believe this sale because it wasn't held on eBay like the others.

But I also believe those fraudulent sales helped lead to what the red sold for today, so I guess it worked out for him.

[CardMarkets]

Cool story. However, the thing I find most entertaining about this thread is that Vegas Dave's initials are VD.

Kudos to him for making a buck, and long live capitalism.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by bradical

I don’t know how we can believe this sale price after it’s been known that VegasDave shilled his Orange Trout Autos to make them appear to be worth more than they are.

I’ve heard from a reliable source that it’s legit.

[cardsharkk]

Wow just wow

[Doctor Claw]

Originally Posted by dmanrico

It takes two to shill. So unless:

A) card isn’t paid for, or
B) Goldin auctions allowed the high bid to be retracted, or
C) Vegas Dave or a buddy decided paying a $180,000 fee plus another $60,000 sales tax to keep the card makes sense (which would only work if you had a second red which he doesn’t)

Then this is a legit sale.

Splashy fake sales happen routinely in this hobby— it is an unregulated marketplace with little to zero consequences for the unscrupulous who pull such maneuvers.

On eBay it is obviously easy to pull off. At an AH, often times the owner-seller-buyer will pre-negotiate what is called a "negative 10 or negative 15 percent" deal with the AH.

This means that the owner-seller-buyer pays a 5% fee, which admittedly may be quite hefty depending on the final hammer price— but still very much worth it, considering what one gets for it: a brand new, sky high valuation for their asset, plus valuable publicity. The AH also benefits as well from the attendant publicity, and depending how in cahoots they are and how much the publicity is worth, they may provide an even better deal.

But yes, it happens. And in these cases it is financially worth it for the owner to pay the fee, considering what the valuation does to his other holdings.

Not saying one way or the other on this Trout card, as no one can ever know unless they possess inside information and confirmation. End of the day, each person in the public will believe what they want to believe, based on the views that they bring to the table and what benefits them. Just offering another angle to hopefully benefit fellow collectors/buyers who may not have heard of this is all.

[dmanrico]

Originally Posted by Doctor Claw

Splashy fake sales happen routinely in this hobby— it is an unregulated marketplace with little to zero consequences for the unscrupulous who pull such maneuvers.

On eBay it is obviously easy to pull off. At an AH, often times the owner-seller-buyer will pre-negotiate what is called a "negative 10 or negative 15 percent" deal with the AH.

This means that the owner-seller-buyer pays a 5% fee, which admittedly may be quite hefty depending on the final hammer price— but still very much worth it, considering what one gets for it: a brand new, sky high valuation for their asset, plus valuable publicity. The AH also benefits as well from the attendant publicity, and depending how in cahoots they are and how much the publicity is worth, they may provide an even better deal.

But yes, it happens. And in these cases it is financially worth it for the owner to pay the fee, considering what the valuation does to his other holdings.

Not saying one way or the other on this Trout card, as no one can ever know unless they possess inside information and confirmation. End of the day, each person in the public will believe what they want to believe, based on the views that they bring to the table and what benefits them. Just offering another angle to hopefully benefit fellow collectors/buyers who may not have heard of this is all.

I understand and don’t disagree. But at the end of the day, If another party willingly bid and paid the price of the card, then this is a legit sale. For all we know, their final max value may have even been higher than what they paid. Auctions only find the second highest bidders max value. Not the winners highest value.

[patchgenie]

saw the trout was mentioned on the today show this morning.

[ThoseBackPages]

I “like’ how so many people have/do urinate on “low end” packs. i know that feeling has changed recently, but its so nice to see so many of these “big cards” come out of $3 packs, starting with this Trout

[bradical]

VegasDave simply lacks anything that can seem trustworthy about him. From his past issues with fraud and using others SSN for tax evasion, or his gambling pick system that he touts with false winning percentages and results, or even his staged cash giveaways. He is 100% show and I believe this was nothing more than that, to get his name back out there, for him to relevant/important.

For me, I find it hard to believe that this is where he starts with his legitamacy.

[kgoldin]

correct, this is a legit sale. Winning bidder long time customer with appropriate credit approval, under bidder long time customer who has spent millions with us. Also, we credit check all bidders. only a small percentage of credit checked individuals have bidding limits even over $100,000 with us, let alone over $500,000. For the knowledge of the board that understands the importance of the sale to the hobby, i will report when payment is received and card is in possession of the winning bidder. Our session 3 closes Saturday, and we invoice this auctionsunday. thank you for all your interest. I was on Yahoo Finance this morning with David Leiner of Topps discussing the card and the modern card market.
Ken Goldin

[bradical]

Originally Posted by kgoldin

correct, this is a legit sale. Winning bidder long time customer with appropriate credit approval, under bidder long time customer who has spent millions with us. Also, we credit check all bidders. only a small percentage of credit checked individuals have bidding limits even over $100,000 with us, let alone over $500,000. For the knowledge of the board that understands the importance of the sale to the hobby, i will report when payment is received and card is in possession of the winning bidder. Our session 3 closes Saturday, and we invoice this auctionsunday. thank you for all your interest. I was on Yahoo Finance this morning with David Leiner of Topps discussing the card and the modern card market.
Ken Goldin

Thanks for the reply, Ken.

I can understand the steps you take to legitimize a sale and everyone wanting this to be the new gold standard for sports card sales, but with the previous owners prior track records it’s hard for one to not have a sliver of doubt that this was indeed shilled or conspired between two people. Especially if the new buyer was a first time customer.

Hopefully I am wrong, and there is no conspiracy here, but I am still feeling a level of deceitfulness from the seller.

[Beantownhero]

Originally Posted by bradical

VegasDave simply lacks anything that can seem trustworthy about him. From his past issues with fraud and using others SSN for tax evasion, or his gambling pick system that he touts with false winning percentages and results, or even his staged cash giveaways. He is 100% show and I believe this was nothing more than that, to get his name back out there, for him to relevant/important.

For me, I find it hard to believe that this is where he starts with his legitamacy.

I'm sure if he wasn't before that he may on the radar for certain agencies.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by bradical

Thanks for the reply, Ken.

I can understand the steps you take to legitimize a sale and everyone wanting this to be the new gold standard for sports card sales, but with the previous owners prior track records it’s hard for one to not have a sliver of doubt that this was indeed shilled or conspired between two people. Especially if the new buyer was a first time customer.

Hopefully I am wrong, and there is no conspiracy here, but I am still feeling a level of deceitfulness from the seller.

[ayalar09]

You know anyone that owns anything Trout should be thanking Dave actually. Because all your stuff just skyrocketed in value.

Cool to have Mr. Goldin come in here and break things down for us.

I wonder if he could answer how much he thinks Mike Trout's 1st HR ball would be worth?

[pete2345]

This Ken guy is great! That's how you run a business. Brent and the others should take notes. Word of mouth is a powerful weapon and he nips it right in the bud. Kudos to Ken and goldin.

[kgoldin]

I do not know if i could have been any clearer, and i certainly dont need to respond to every comment, but i know this is an important sale for the industry, just like my Lebron Ultimate Logoman was in 2016 as the first modern basketball card at the time to break $300,000 was.

1. the winner has been registered in my auctions for 6 years
2. the winner has won multiple times and paid every invoice
3 there is 0% chance of a default.
4. As a courtesy to the forum, i am going to post when we receive payment (we invoice for this auction SUNDAY when session 3 closes)
5. I am going to take a picture and post it of the card on its way to winner
6 the underbidder has spent MILLIONS with me and has already enlisted me to find HIM a red trout card if i can, meaning there would 2 gigantic sales of the same Red Trout card conducted by me.
your opinion of the consignor is your business, he has and had nothing to do with the sale, and his private business to me, is just that, his private business. The consignor has nothing to do with me, or my business, just as the other 5000+ consignors we have dealt with over the years. to me he is just a paper transaction, although a large one.

thank you

Originally Posted by bradical

Thanks for the reply, Ken.

I can understand the steps you take to legitimize a sale and everyone wanting this to be the new gold standard for sports card sales, but with the previous owners prior track records it’s hard for one to not have a sliver of doubt that this was indeed shilled or conspired between two people. Especially if the new buyer was a first time customer.

Hopefully I am wrong, and there is no conspiracy here, but I am still feeling a level of deceitfulness from the seller.

[actionbryan]

Front page yahoo news, we're doin it boys.

[vintg]

Originally Posted by kgoldin

I do not know if i could have been any clearer, and i certainly dont need to respond to every comment, but i know this is an important sale for the industry, just like my Lebron Ultimate Logoman was in 2016 as the first modern basketball card at the time to break $300,000 was.

1. the winner has been registered in my auctions for 6 years
2. the winner has won multiple times and paid every invoice
3 there is 0% chance of a default.
4. As a courtesy to the forum, i am going to post when we receive payment (we invoice for this auction SUNDAY when session 3 closes)
5. I am going to take a picture and post it of the card on its way to winner
6 the underbidder has spent MILLIONS with me and has already enlisted me to find HIM a red trout card if i can, meaning there would 2 gigantic sales of the same Red Trout card conducted by me.
your opinion of the consignor is your business, he has and had nothing to do with the sale, and his private business to me, is just that, his private business. The consignor has nothing to do with me, or my business, just as the other 5000+ consignors we have dealt with over the years. to me he is just a paper transaction, although a large one.

thank you

thank YOU !!! this is awesome news for the hobby.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by actionbryan

Front page yahoo news, we're doin it boys.

There is a lot of POMO coming.

[bradical]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Originally Posted by kgoldin

I do not know if i could have been any clearer, and i certainly dont need to respond to every comment, but i know this is an important sale for the industry, just like my Lebron Ultimate Logoman was in 2016 as the first modern basketball card at the time to break $300,000 was.

1. the winner has been registered in my auctions for 6 years
2. the winner has won multiple times and paid every invoice
3 there is 0% chance of a default.
4. As a courtesy to the forum, i am going to post when we receive payment (we invoice for this auction SUNDAY when session 3 closes)
5. I am going to take a picture and post it of the card on its way to winner
6 the underbidder has spent MILLIONS with me and has already enlisted me to find HIM a red trout card if i can, meaning there would 2 gigantic sales of the same Red Trout card conducted by me.
your opinion of the consignor is your business, he has and had nothing to do with the sale, and his private business to me, is just that, his private business. The consignor has nothing to do with me, or my business, just as the other 5000+ consignors we have dealt with over the years. to me he is just a paper transaction, although a large one.

thank you

My apologies, Ken - I misread your first part and thought you had said the seller was a long time customer, not the winning bidder.

Glad to know it's just me with the tinfoil hat on.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by bradical

My apologies, Ken - I misread your first part and thought you had said the seller was a long time customer, not the winning bidder.

Glad to know it's just me with the tinfoil hat on.

It's not just you! It's good to be skeptical about these sales. But nice to find out it was legit. The hobby is very strong and quickly evolving.

[Rage]

Love to see it!

[MoreToppsPlease]

It's just difficult to think that a collector would've bought this card for that amount considering there are four other copies; such a collector would only want the best (no, I'm not looking to debate this). It makes much more sense for a hobby institution to have bought this card for obvious reasons.

Besides, does anyone else think VD would've sold his 1/1 to the winner of the red if he were offered the red's auction price plus fees?

Originally Posted by Doctor Claw

Splashy fake sales happen routinely in this hobby— it is an unregulated marketplace with little to zero consequences for the unscrupulous who pull such maneuvers.

On eBay it is obviously easy to pull off. At an AH, often times the owner-seller-buyer will pre-negotiate what is called a "negative 10 or negative 15 percent" deal with the AH.

This means that the owner-seller-buyer pays a 5% fee, which admittedly may be quite hefty depending on the final hammer price— but still very much worth it, considering what one gets for it: a brand new, sky high valuation for their asset, plus valuable publicity. The AH also benefits as well from the attendant publicity, and depending how in cahoots they are and how much the publicity is worth, they may provide an even better deal.

But yes, it happens. And in these cases it is financially worth it for the owner to pay the fee, considering what the valuation does to his other holdings.

Not saying one way or the other on this Trout card, as no one can ever know unless they possess inside information and confirmation. End of the day, each person in the public will believe what they want to believe, based on the views that they bring to the table and what benefits them. Just offering another angle to hopefully benefit fellow collectors/buyers who may not have heard of this is all.