People have lost their minds buying on EBay!

[discodanman45]

You have a much higher chance buying a raw card from ebay that is trimmed then buying a PSA card that is trimmed. People make it seem that a huge percent of PSA cards are trimmed. The number is EXTREMELY small, but it can't be stopped. People that know how to trim cards and can reproduce natural cuts will get away with it. This is not as prevalent as the anti-graders say it is.

[ucLAkers]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Even on your BGS 9.5 Alex Guerrero.

Give yourself some credit in your ability to guess a grade

You never know these days hahaaa! I do know that if I dont think its nmmt it doesn’t get listed. Unfortunately the new hobby doesn’t know what nmmt even is. They know 9.5 or 10 and dont PC. But to think that any seller is purposely hiding flaws because they aren’t graded is just lame.
Kinda wish the OP would just put himself on my BBL that way he doesn't accidentally buy something from my shady arce.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by ucLAkers

You never know these days hahaaa! I do know that if I dont think its nmmt it doesn’t get listed. Unfortunately the new hobby doesn’t know what nmmt even is. They know 9.5 or 10 and dont PC. But to think that any seller is purposely hiding flaws because they aren’t graded is just lame.
Kinda wish the OP would just put himself on my BBL that way he doesn't accidentally buy something from my shady arce.

It gave me a chuckle.

I agree, for alot of the newcomers a card is either mint (9.5/10) or poor. There is no middle ground.

[ronzo]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

It gave me a chuckle.

I agree, for alot of the newcomers a card is either mint (9.5/10) or poor. There is no middle ground.

The best part is a lot of them aren't even looking at the cards. I've seen several people complaining about the condition of their PSA 10s. So many people buying into stuff they have zero knowledge in.

[BBases31]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

You have a much higher chance buying a raw card from ebay that is trimmed then buying a PSA card that is trimmed.

This is absolutely not true. That would mean that PSA is rejecting more trimmed cards than they are grading and we know that isn't the case.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

You have a much higher chance buying a raw card from ebay that is trimmed then buying a PSA card that is trimmed. People make it seem that a huge percent of PSA cards are trimmed. The number is EXTREMELY small, but it can't be stopped. People that know how to trim cards and can reproduce natural cuts will get away with it. This is not as prevalent as the anti-graders say it is.

But given the cost differential between the two, buyers are better off buying raw.

[biggieruth]

To be honest 90% of the cards I bought off eBay raw graded at least a 9 psa and 9 5 bgs when sent them to be graded . I even got a few mints. I also buy cards early of certain prospects before they blow up. I know that helps also before everyone jumps on bandwagon.

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[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

But given the cost differential between the two, buyers are better off buying raw.

Not really. Just buy a graded PSA 8 or 9. You know what you are getting without much of a risk. The current PSA 10 nonsense is what is making things insane. People overpay for a PSA 10 and they overpay for a raw card because they think they could get a PSA 10 raw and submit. Sports Card Investors need a PSA 10. Collectors should be fine with a PSA 8 or 9.

[TheWrightStuff]

I know Ive lost out on a lot of money not grading. I just have a hard time paying those huge grading fees even though I know Ill end up with more money in the long run.

[shayscards79]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

Not really. Just buy a graded PSA 8 or 9. You know what you are getting without much of a risk. The current PSA 10 nonsense is what is making things insane. People overpay for a PSA 10 and they overpay for a raw card because they think they could get a PSA 10 raw and submit. Sports Card Investors need a PSA 10. Collectors should be fine with a PSA 8 or 9.

It just seems crazy to me that people would be worried about a "risk" on a two or three year old card and go out of their way to buy a PSA 8 to mitigate that. Unless you have to have your whole collection slabbed in plastic I suppose.

When I think of buying a card graded because I'm worried about risk, it's a raw 1956 Mantle listed in EXMT condition or something along those lines.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

Not really. Just buy a graded PSA 8 or 9. You know what you are getting without much of a risk. The current PSA 10 nonsense is what is making things insane. People overpay for a PSA 10 and they overpay for a raw card because they think they could get a PSA 10 raw and submit. Sports Card Investors need a PSA 10. Collectors should be fine with a PSA 8 or 9.

I get what you’re saying, but we’ve seen plenty of trimmed 8s and 9s as well.

One thing’s for sure though: the more popular 8 and 9s become, the more trimmed 8s and 9s there will be. Supply will rise to meet demand.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by shayscards79

It just seems crazy to me that people would be worried about a "risk" on a two or three year old card and go out of their way to buy a PSA 8 to mitigate that. Unless you have to have your whole collection slabbed in plastic I suppose.

When I think of buying a card graded because I'm worried about risk, it's a raw 1956 Mantle listed in EXMT condition or something along those lines.

With the price of current cards they are highly dependent upon condition that is completely different from older cards and carry just as much risk as buying a raw 1956 Mantle that could be a counterfeit. Scratches, print lines, and other defects are really difficult to see through images with these new metallic finishes. I can easily tell from a 1970's or 1980's card the condition of it from a picture and do quite well from what I look at. These modern cards are hard to photograph because of the shiny surfaces and it isn't until you have the card in your hand that you know the condition.

Without the new online way of purchasing cards, graded is the safest way to go. It is hard to pay a fair price for a raw card online, so sellers would rather encase every card with a grade. It is getting insane at this point. PSA has about 1.5 million cards backlog that need to be graded. Well they don't need to be graded, but that is the "hobby." I only want key rookies from the 70's and 80's in PSA cases for my PC. However, sometimes the only way to sell a card at a decent price is to play the grading game. It sucks, but the majority of collectors need that grade to brag.

[ronzo]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

With the price of current cards they are highly dependent upon condition that is completely different from older cards and carry just as much risk as buying a raw 1956 Mantle that could be a counterfeit. Scratches, print lines, and other defects are really difficult to see through images with these new metallic finishes. I can easily tell from a 1970's or 1980's card the condition of it from a picture and do quite well from what I look at. These modern cards are hard to photograph because of the shiny surfaces and it isn't until you have the card in your hand that you know the condition.

Without the new online way of purchasing cards, graded is the safest way to go. It is hard to pay a fair price for a raw card online, so sellers would rather encase every card with a grade. It is getting insane at this point. PSA has about 1.5 million cards backlog that need to be graded. Well they don't need to be graded, but that is the "hobby." I only want key rookies from the 70's and 80's in PSA cases for my PC. However, sometimes the only way to sell a card at a decent price is to play the grading game. It sucks, but the majority of collectors need that grade to brag.

I know all the money is in RC's and graded, but people DO collect other cards. I'm a player collector and a set collector, not an investor. I've never owned a single graded card, and never intend to. Never once doubted the legitimacy of any card I've owned. Grading has been a shady industry for years, it still blows my mind it's gotten as big as it is.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

I get what you’re saying, but we’ve seen plenty of trimmed 8s and 9s as well.

One thing’s for sure though: the more popular 8 and 9s become, the more trimmed 8s and 9s there will be. Supply will rise to meet demand.

Define "plenty" for me. I know people think it is rampant, but it is a very small number of cards. If I randomly buy 100 PSA graded cards on ebay, the chance of me even getting one trimmed/altered card that got by PSA is basically 0%.

[shayscards79]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

With the price of current cards they are highly dependent upon condition that is completely different from older cards and carry just as much risk as buying a raw 1956 Mantle that could be a counterfeit. Scratches, print lines, and other defects are really difficult to see through images with these new metallic finishes. I can easily tell from a 1970's or 1980's card the condition of it from a picture and do quite well from what I look at. These modern cards are hard to photograph because of the shiny surfaces and it isn't until you have the card in your hand that you know the condition.

Without the new online way of purchasing cards, graded is the safest way to go. It is hard to pay a fair price for a raw card online, so sellers would rather encase every card with a grade. It is getting insane at this point. PSA has about 1.5 million cards backlog that need to be graded. Well they don't need to be graded, but that is the "hobby." I only want key rookies from the 70's and 80's in PSA cases for my PC. However, sometimes the only way to sell a card at a decent price is to play the grading game. It sucks, but the majority of collectors need that grade to brag.

I see what you're saying about the scans. I'm pretty good at determining condition on vintage too as I never buy graded vintage either. But I know exactly what I'm looking at.. although, I stick to the same five dealers that I trust online and I've never had issues.

I know with modern I'm probably leaving some money on the table by not grading but I'd rather not deal with it. I still do well flipping raw cards as well. I've only had one person return a card because it was "item not as described" in ten years. Considering how much the value had dropped by the time he received the card, I was high skeptical of the flaws he claimed and was feeling buyer's remorse.

[fearziz]

i only buy bgs 9.5 or higher. raw cards arent worth the risk.

[shayscards79]

I'll also add that it's better to upload pictures of modern raw cards rather than scans. You can get a much better idea of the surface condition of a newer card with a well placed angle with a camera.

[ucLAkers]

Originally Posted by fearziz

i only buy bgs 9.5 or higher. raw cards arent worth the risk.

Yes is sooooo risky WTF is the risk if everything is returnable?

Bunch of non-collectors in this thread.

[fearziz]

Originally Posted by ucLAkers

Yes is sooooo risky WTF is the risk if everything is returnable?

Bunch of non-collectors in this thread.

right, not everything is "returnable" and the headache isnt returnable either

[shayscards79]

Originally Posted by ucLAkers

Yes is sooooo risky WTF is the risk if everything is returnable?

Bunch of non-collectors in this thread.

Considering I only buy raw (with a few rare exceptions)... I've only had to return one card in 12 years on eBay. Then again I'm not looking for the next PSA 10 all the time either

[jhssketchcards]

To me it seems like on here the xo Siri on thing is becoming more of an issue with selling. Buyers are saying things like “minty fresh pack pulled” or non-cherry picked etc when buying. Let’s say a seller does make a deal for 25 cards that he thinks are mint and gradable. If the buyer gets them and 15 of them aren’t what they seller seems 10s or gradable at gem, can’t the buyer leave a negative on that seller for not as advertised? I’m just saying seems like it’s a slippery slope here too. I’m not a grader, so I don’t inspect each card with a microscope or loop. I try and make sure all of my cards are mint or as close to it, but just seems like more buyers are coming here wanting gem mint 10s on almost everything. To me it won’t be long before more and more negatives are given here because buyers aren’t happy with certain purchases. There’s no way to necessarily return cards here unless it’s hashed out through PM so negs and being outed may be the norm equal to a buyer returning via eBay.


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[pewe]

Originally Posted by fearziz

i only buy bgs 9.5 or higher. raw cards arent worth the risk.

The complaints for returned cards on the boards here seem highest for graded cards. Reading between the lines it seems like graded are riskier, in fact, than raw.

And if you are purely interested in “the best”, we’ve also covered a myriad of times that high graded cards often show up clearly over graded - especially PSA10 off-center with white showing on corners of cards.

When possible I buy sharp raw, and keep them that way (not only are the cheaper, for at least as nice card, they also take up waaaaay less room for storage).


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[KhalDrogo]

I love buying raw. Know your card and your seller and you will be just fine. And if you get a significantly damaged card, it's an easy return. I'm about 50/50 on gradable raw, with only three returns over the past three years.

[Wrigs37]

Dude sounds furious...

[fearziz]

Originally Posted by pewe

The complaints for returned cards on the boards here seem highest for graded cards. Reading between the lines it seems like graded are riskier, in fact, than raw.

And if you are purely interested in “the best”, we’ve also covered a myriad of times that high graded cards often show up clearly over graded - especially PSA10 off-center with white showing on corners of cards.

When possible I buy sharp raw, and keep them that way (not only are the cheaper, for at least as nice card, they also take up waaaaay less room for storage).


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i cant argue with your point but we must all remember that regardless of raw or grade, every card is based on a persons perception. therefore, while grading or raw isn't relevant in literal terms, having the backing of a certified entity certainly doesn't hurt even if their perception of the card is wrong. it simply validates another persons observation of the cards integrity. additionally, having the card graded beforehand saves you money assuming you got the card at it's current book value. Grading is subjective in nature but has its place in the hobby. i dont think theres any camera good enough to replace having another certified companies validation on record of the cards actual shape. the zoom on ebay pictures or scans are only so good and there are tons of factors that affect the quality of those pictures such as ebays compression or monitor quality.