NBA Top Shot - High Risk, High Reward? - Page 3

volblorx8634 · 01-13-2021, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by libruary

I own this card now.. no but seriously I get it, I am skeptical as well, just figured I'd mention it since it's new

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsRChamps

Very interesting concept - I take pride in being a very open-minded person, so I'm definitely not dismissive of this. I ask to those that do question the value in something like this, I'd just ask you what specifically has inherited value aside from the value "others place on something and a large enough people agree on it's value" ? ... What I mean is as someone else said in this thread - cards by themselves are worthless, just cardboard. Even autographs on cards is just a pen mark. A jersey on a card is a tiny piece of cloth. Heck, even money is worthless and it just has value because enough people trade with it. I think you see where I'm going ...

I will say though that in my opinion the inherited/true value that something brings is universally the joy, positive emotion that thing brings to someone ... And an expectation that someone else has that same emotion from it (and they can trade it when the time comes)

Anyway, this could go into a much more deep philosophical conversation, but the point is if people value it or anything - even if it is not yourself - it has VALUE by my definition. Though of course you could argue the value is more risky and can fluctuate more, which is probably true.

I've always somewhat felt similarly and it's why even though I've never purchased digital cards, I've always considered them and don't blame anyone who considers this either. Why pay hundreds of thousands for a Jordan PSA 10 when you can add a photo of it from anywhere to your digital collection for free? Of course, the physical card has way more value because someone will be willing to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for it, but that's just because millions of people over decades have convinced themselves that it's worth something. If these digital collectible options catch on and become popular, they could literally be just as valuable.

I'm purely talking from a collecting perspective, but I doubt I'll purchase any of this because I can just start saving video highlights onto my computer and I have all the same stuff for free.

grade · 01-13-2021, 03:54 PM

when i first saw this nbatopshop i thought it was stupid.

But WoW. The last two days was and is fun. This is going to spike hard in the next week. Everyone should just try $100 buck for fun. ($9 packs today)

i am putting $2000 into this. And will try and take the $2000 out asap and play around with house money.

Seriously, try it.

Tallboy · 01-13-2021, 03:57 PM

Brave new world we're living in. I've been chewing on this, so, some thoughts:

1. I concur with the assessment that for those who are really trying to go full liquidity on trading cards, going digital is the way to go. The tricky part is how you give a sense of value to something that isn't physical.

2. Cryptocurrency clearly provides a template here as it's been quite successful in the sense of values going up...but while I think cryptocurrency makes sense as a concept, the way the value of crypto has skyrocketed over the past decade seems to me to be completely divorced from any sense of real value.

Maybe I'm wrong on this, and if so, please correct me, but to me that skyrocketing is just a product of people coming to believe that something "will go up", and so long as that continues unabated, it does go up, thus resulting in objective profits and a closed, reinforcing loop for those looking for proof of investment potential.

And that's a phenomenon that is inherently fragile even in things like the stock market where the shares are anchored on something fundamentally real - ownership of a company earning revenue.

3. Hence, building "moments" like this in the wake of the success of crypto is inherently fragile too. You can make money as long as others believe, but you have to expect that the bubble will pop at some point.

So, make money on the flip, and by all means use something like this to diversify your portfolio, but don't expect this stuff will have value, say, 50 years from now.

4. The same is true for actual cards to a degree of course, but the basis for trading card value is that you're getting a genuine, fundamentally limited artifact from some point in history. Values can go down, but so long as society holds, there's going to be value in historical ephemera.

5. I'm trying to get my head around the actual "moment" that you're getting and I'm struggling.

Fundamentally, the issue for me is similar to others: I don't see any true scarcity to the product. If someone wants to see a clip of a player 50 years from now, they're going to be able to see it elsewhere on the internet legally for free. And of course, for the vast majority of these players, people are going to care far less about them in 50 years than they do now.

I understand that the "moments" here come with a kind of serial number, and that might be enough to actually drive interest given the mature state of internet collectible investment, but my fundamental question:

Why is this clip with its serial number any better than the clip I can get for free elsewhere?

Someone mentioned that you can print your own copy of actual cards too, but aside from the fact that selling those would be illegal, the quality for most of us would be terrible.

6. When I find myself thinking how I could fix the problem here, there's a pretty straight forward solution:

Let people actually buy shares of the actual footage and get a dividend whenever that footage is used in a way that generates revenue.

I'd love to own the rights to, say, that perfect set up dunk from Wade to LeBron back in Miami a decade back, but if me paying for a "moment" doesn't actually give me that, then what am I actually getting?

Anyway, won't be surprised if this takes off because it's only slightly more abstract than cryptocurrency, but I think there's something fundamentally missing in the theory of its scarcity at this time, and I'll be staying away as I'm not a flipper, I'm someone looking to buy stuff I think has the substance to stay valuable for a long time, and I'm not convinced of this.

Archangel1775 · 01-13-2021, 04:01 PM

Someone already eluded to Generation Z and the next generation potentially going this route for digital collectibles. We shall see.

I dropped a few bucks into this and may dabble here and there. This will probably be the only year I do buy into this as it is the "first set" and the timing of it during an important and unique time in history.

Archangel1775 · 01-13-2021, 04:07 PM

As of this post only 1161 packs left.......5000 sold in the last hour..... crazy

Only other explanation is that they are using a Dominion machine to count

Archangel1775 · 01-13-2021, 04:10 PM

Just refreshed and now 430 left.......

refreshed 290 left........

refreshed 140....

Archangel1775 · 01-13-2021, 04:11 PM

SOLD OUT....Holy smokes..........

Looks like they will be posting more(unplanned) later today but demand is out of this world.....

grade · 01-13-2021, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

SOLD OUT....Holy smokes..........

my stash. I was going to buy 10 to hold. But they sold out fast.
That was one week of packs in 1/2 day. This is blowing up big.

wish i started a few months ago. Thought this was stupid a few months ago.

Archangel1775 · 01-13-2021, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grade

my stash. I was going to buy 10 to hold. But they sold out fast.
That was one week of packs in 1/2 day. This is blowing up big.

wish i started a few months ago. Thought this was stupid a few months ago.

I saw what some of those earlier issues are selling for. I'm not going that far to spend 3 figures on a digital single but would probably grab one of the limited edition packs if/when they are released.

I grabbed lots of 10 packs to open and realized I was better off buying who I wanted after a few lots.

LaMelo's first clip(moment) is his first game and first assist.

Easy pickup under $90 which is what a 10 pack lot would've cost. I did have to buy the Edwards kid for $25 to complete my set.

grade · 01-13-2021, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

I saw what some of those earlier issues are selling for. I'm not going that far to spend 3 figures on a digital single but would probably grab one of the limited edition packs if/when they are released.

I grabbed lots of 10 packs to open and realized I was better off buying who I wanted after a few lots.

LaMelo's first clip(moment) is his first game and first assist.

Easy pickup under $90 which is what a 10 pack lot would've cost. I did have to buy the Edwards kid for $25 to complete my set.

I been testing various techniques. Packs, flipping, buying.
What actually worked best for me , it might be luck, was buying packs yesterday and flipping the under $3 cards . when i flipped $12 worth i would buy another packs. rinse and repeat. Did very good.

Today i been buying superstars and busting packs. Did good again.

Watch the Giannis /1500. i got couple yesterday and basically doubled in price and still going up.

this is so much fun.

Oldan Poar · 01-13-2021, 06:03 PM

- -

grade · 01-13-2021, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldan Poar

Thinking about divorcing one of my pack pulled, limited edition wives (Red head /5). She looks good but has some bad moments. Probably should get rid of the digital beach front property first....

Would be able to afford some of these then.

just drove my digital picture lamboghini to mcdonalds for lunch.

ninjacookies · 01-13-2021, 06:16 PM

Buy crypto.

grade · 01-13-2021, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

SOLD OUT....Holy smokes..........

Looks like they will be posting more(unplanned) later today but demand is out of this world.....

new packs up

mc1 · 01-13-2021, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Buy crypto.

Half of these dinosaurs dont believe in digital money.

JeremyNick · 01-13-2021, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldan Poar

Thinking about divorcing one of my pack pulled, limited edition wives (Red head /5). She looks good but has some bad moments. Probably should get rid of the digital beach front property first....

Would be able to afford some of these then.

Quoted

Oldan Poar · 01-13-2021, 09:06 PM

- -

ninjacookies · 01-13-2021, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mc1

Half of these dinosaurs dont believe in digital money.

Fake Internet $$ Ponzi MLM etc etc

shondamon · 01-13-2021, 11:18 PM

wtf is this? is this like blockchain nonsense

Seven Costanza · 01-14-2021, 12:54 AM

NBA TS sold over 50k packs today. Its gonna be around a while, and if it eventually helps me expand my cardboard collection then its cool with me...

Gummybears · 01-14-2021, 01:36 AM

Like most, initial thought is, this is ridiculous. But I'm also trying to keep an open mind. @tallboy is spot on and very thoughtful on this. I can see this headed towards project 2020, where people are making fast money early but then die out quickly as many people don't find true value in these clips. This is fulfilling a ripping wax/gambling aspect at retail price that is sorely missing from the hobby currently. Let's see how long this lasts and how it unfolds. I don't see it long term.

ninjacookies · 01-14-2021, 01:48 AM

Someone legit dropped 25 racks on a 8 second Bron .mp4?

I'd like to meet him and shake his hand.

Adam85 · 01-14-2021, 02:46 AM

What happens if they go out of business or the server it is on crashes? The thing about bitcoin is anyone can host a node and process transactions so there could be millions of access points for it.

mjwoop · 01-14-2021, 03:05 AM

I'm fairly confident that I can identify at least one person in this thread who has a stake in the "pack selling" side of this endeavor. Your approach is more transparent than you realize.

mc1 · 01-14-2021, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Someone legit dropped 25 racks on a 8 second Bron .mp4?

I'd like to meet him and shake his hand.

01-13-2021, 04:01 PM	#54
Archangel1775 Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Cali baby! Posts: 21,496	Someone already eluded to Generation Z and the next generation potentially going this route for digital collectibles. We shall see. I dropped a few bucks into this and may dabble here and there. This will probably be the only year I do buy into this as it is the "first set" and the timing of it during an important and unique time in history. __________________ *There are the intangibles that set someone apart from the pack.So the blur isn't your inability to see his greatness, it's merely the inability to measure it.* Last edited by Archangel1775; 01-13-2021 at 04:05 PM.

01-13-2021, 04:07 PM	#55
Archangel1775 Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Cali baby! Posts: 21,496	As of this post only 1161 packs left.......5000 sold in the last hour..... crazy Only other explanation is that they are using a Dominion machine to count __________________ *There are the intangibles that set someone apart from the pack.So the blur isn't your inability to see his greatness, it's merely the inability to measure it.*

01-13-2021, 04:10 PM	#56
Archangel1775 Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Cali baby! Posts: 21,496	Just refreshed and now 430 left....... refreshed 290 left........ refreshed 140.... __________________ *There are the intangibles that set someone apart from the pack.So the blur isn't your inability to see his greatness, it's merely the inability to measure it.*

01-13-2021, 04:11 PM	#57
Archangel1775 Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Cali baby! Posts: 21,496	SOLD OUT....Holy smokes.......... Looks like they will be posting more(unplanned) later today but demand is out of this world..... __________________ *There are the intangibles that set someone apart from the pack.So the blur isn't your inability to see his greatness, it's merely the inability to measure it.* Last edited by Archangel1775; 01-13-2021 at 04:20 PM.

01-13-2021, 06:03 PM	#61
Oldan Poar Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 450	- - Last edited by Oldan Poar; 01-14-2021 at 08:44 AM.

01-13-2021, 03:54 PM	#52
grade Banned Join Date: Sep 2020 Posts: 3,113	when i first saw this nbatopshop i thought it was stupid. But WoW. The last two days was and is fun. This is going to spike hard in the next week. Everyone should just try $100 buck for fun. ($9 packs today) i am putting $2000 into this. And will try and take the $2000 out asap and play around with house money. Seriously, try it.

01-13-2021, 03:57 PM	#53
Tallboy Member Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 918	Brave new world we're living in. I've been chewing on this, so, some thoughts: 1. I concur with the assessment that for those who are really trying to go full liquidity on trading cards, going digital is the way to go. The tricky part is how you give a sense of value to something that isn't physical. 2. Cryptocurrency clearly provides a template here as it's been quite successful in the sense of values going up...but while I think cryptocurrency makes sense as a concept, the way the value of crypto has skyrocketed over the past decade seems to me to be completely divorced from any sense of real value. Maybe I'm wrong on this, and if so, please correct me, but to me that skyrocketing is just a product of people coming to believe that something "will go up", and so long as that continues unabated, it does go up, thus resulting in objective profits and a closed, reinforcing loop for those looking for proof of investment potential. And that's a phenomenon that is inherently fragile even in things like the stock market where the shares are anchored on something fundamentally real - ownership of a company earning revenue. 3. Hence, building "moments" like this in the wake of the success of crypto is inherently fragile too. You can make money as long as others believe, but you have to expect that the bubble will pop at some point. So, make money on the flip, and by all means use something like this to diversify your portfolio, but don't expect this stuff will have value, say, 50 years from now. 4. The same is true for actual cards to a degree of course, but the basis for trading card value is that you're getting a genuine, fundamentally limited artifact from some point in history. Values can go down, but so long as society holds, there's going to be value in historical ephemera. 5. I'm trying to get my head around the actual "moment" that you're getting and I'm struggling. Fundamentally, the issue for me is similar to others: I don't see any true scarcity to the product. If someone wants to see a clip of a player 50 years from now, they're going to be able to see it elsewhere on the internet legally for free. And of course, for the vast majority of these players, people are going to care far less about them in 50 years than they do now. I understand that the "moments" here come with a kind of serial number, and that might be enough to actually drive interest given the mature state of internet collectible investment, but my fundamental question: Why is this clip with its serial number any better than the clip I can get for free elsewhere? Someone mentioned that you can print your own copy of actual cards too, but aside from the fact that selling those would be illegal, the quality for most of us would be terrible. 6. When I find myself thinking how I could fix the problem here, there's a pretty straight forward solution: Let people actually buy shares of the actual footage and get a dividend whenever that footage is used in a way that generates revenue. I'd love to own the rights to, say, that perfect set up dunk from Wade to LeBron back in Miami a decade back, but if me paying for a "moment" doesn't actually give me that, then what am I actually getting? Anyway, won't be surprised if this takes off because it's only slightly more abstract than cryptocurrency, but I think there's something fundamentally missing in the theory of its scarcity at this time, and I'll be staying away as I'm not a flipper, I'm someone looking to buy stuff I think has the substance to stay valuable for a long time, and I'm not convinced of this.

01-13-2021, 06:16 PM	#63
ninjacookies Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: All the girls see the (boi)/ Look at his flips / Look at his kards / All they say is (oh boi). Posts: 56,263	Buy crypto. __________________ #5 world ranked Ledell Eackles superclection as recognized by Tuff Stuff junior managing editor, Barry McCaulkinner. Somethin' like a cross between Teddy Aguhob and Kaboom Mystery Packs. I got that Givenchy denim flow.

01-13-2021, 09:06 PM	#67
Oldan Poar Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 450	- - Last edited by Oldan Poar; 01-14-2021 at 08:44 AM.

01-13-2021, 11:18 PM	#69
shondamon Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: STL Posts: 381 akskek	wtf is this? is this like blockchain nonsense __________________ sale/trade album: https://www.flickr.com/photos/190460906@N08/albums/72157716246696887

01-14-2021, 12:54 AM	#70
Seven Costanza Member Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: ATL Posts: 714	NBA TS sold over 50k packs today. Its gonna be around a while, and if it eventually helps me expand my cardboard collection then its cool with me...

01-14-2021, 01:36 AM	#71
Gummybears Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 17	Like most, initial thought is, this is ridiculous. But I'm also trying to keep an open mind. @tallboy is spot on and very thoughtful on this. I can see this headed towards project 2020, where people are making fast money early but then die out quickly as many people don't find true value in these clips. This is fulfilling a ripping wax/gambling aspect at retail price that is sorely missing from the hobby currently. Let's see how long this lasts and how it unfolds. I don't see it long term. Last edited by Gummybears; 01-14-2021 at 01:30 PM.

01-14-2021, 01:48 AM	#72
ninjacookies Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: All the girls see the (boi)/ Look at his flips / Look at his kards / All they say is (oh boi). Posts: 56,263	Someone legit dropped 25 racks on a 8 second Bron .mp4? I'd like to meet him and shake his hand. __________________ #5 world ranked Ledell Eackles superclection as recognized by Tuff Stuff junior managing editor, Barry McCaulkinner. Somethin' like a cross between Teddy Aguhob and Kaboom Mystery Packs. I got that Givenchy denim flow.

01-14-2021, 02:46 AM	#73
Adam85 Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: USA Posts: 356	What happens if they go out of business or the server it is on crashes? The thing about bitcoin is anyone can host a node and process transactions so there could be millions of access points for it.

01-14-2021, 03:05 AM	#74
mjwoop Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 1,753	I'm fairly confident that I can identify at least one person in this thread who has a stake in the "pack selling" side of this endeavor. Your approach is more transparent than you realize.