2013 NFL HOF Class Finalists announced...

[BAMBAM]

Maybe they'll open up a "Specialists Closet" in the Hall someday, not wing, closet and put the few players (Adam Vinatieri, maybe Ray Guy or Shane Lechler) that one could argue for in with Jan. I, along with many others, consider kickers and punters non-football players and rightly so when you watch 99% of them try to make a simple tackle but they do a play pretty important role in just about every football game each week.

All kidding aside, it is kind of weird that a position as critical to a game as punter doesn't have one representative in the Hall other than a guy like Sammy Baugh who was one of the greatest punters ever but is in for his arm.

[armyatc22]

These are who I think will get in this year:

Larry Allen (G/T)
Tim Brown (WR)
Cris Carter (WR)
Bill Parcells (coach)


Everyone is at least somewhat deserving but these should be locks

[Josh611]

Jerome Bettis (RB)
Cris Carter (WR)
Bill Parcells (coach)
Michael Strahan (DE)

[bearfield]

Originally Posted by Ray27Ray52

I can't really disagree with you. Andre was a beast. 950 catches for over 13000 yards. What more does a fella need to do to get some HOF love?

also needs to have some class. i live in the buffalo area, all it was with kelly, thomas, reed, and smith was, me me me me me.
1. i'll repeat this 1 more time, if i fought ALI 4 times and got beat 4 times, do i belong in the boxing HOF?
2. 3 TIME LOSERS GO TO JAIL FOR A LONG TIME, WHATS WITH PUTTING 4 TIME LOSERS IN THE HOF? and that includes levy, he didn't coach the team, they did what they damn well pleased.

[jusdukky]

Originally Posted by dfr52

According to profootballreference.com Shields was a 2 x 1st team All Pro.

Thanks for digging this info up. If you click the "fine print" it explains the all pro status and directs you to the following info below which is located below his stats. I took my info from an article about Shields and did not just make up a number.


All-Pro Teams
Year Team Level Voters
1996 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
1996 2nd Team All-Conf. UPI
1997 2nd Team All-NFL Associated Press
1999 1st Team All-NFL Sporting News
2001 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
2002 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
2002 1st Team All-NFL Associated Press
2002 1st Team All-NFL Pro Football Writers
2002 1st Team All-NFL Sporting News
2003 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
2003 1st Team All-NFL Associated Press
2003 1st Team All-NFL Pro Football Writers
2003 1st Team All-NFL Sporting News
2004 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
2004 2nd Team All-NFL Associated Press
2005 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
2005 2nd Team All-NFL Associated Press
2006 2nd Team All-NFL Associated Press

[bearfield]

Originally Posted by 88horsepower

I don't see how Jonathan Ogden doesn't get in on the first try. The man was the single best left tackle in the NFL during his prime. Even during his down years he was better than 90% of the league's tackles. Larry Allen is a no-brainer as well. And, yes, the logjam at wide receiver is pathetic. Andre Reed should have gotten in years ago and the same could be said for Tim Brown and Cris Carter. Just insane how those three guys are still hanging around on the ballot as if they're not worthy of being enshrined. Reed was literally THE premier wide receiver in the AFC during his peak years when he and Jim Kelly were one of the hottest 1-2 punches in the league. Just makes ZERO sense that he's not in yet. As for Bettis, I thought he was a sure thing when he retired. Now he's on his third try and it seems he's a question mark every January when this conversation comes up.

i suspect that there are some haters on the selection committee.

[BAMBAM]

Good thing some of the people in this thread don't have votes or some tremendous football players would be out in the cold because of their stats. Hopefully as time passes and the voters change they will continue to look at a player's career as more than just a bunch of numbers. You can't talk about the decade of the '90s without including in large part the Buffalo Bills and Andre Reed. Kelly, Thomas and Reed were the AFCs Aikman, Emmitt and Irvin during the 90's. Funny how their careers are looked at differently it seems because of one missed FG. (there's those stinkin' specialists again) Even with all the negativity surrounding those Bills for not winning it all, if 5 out of those 6 are in there is no reason for Reed to not make it 6 for 6.

[bearfield]

Originally Posted by jusdukky

Thanks for digging this info up. If you click the "fine print" it explains the all pro status and directs you to the following info below which is located below his stats. I took my info from an article about Shields and did not just make up a number.


All-Pro Teams
Year Team Level Voters
1996 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
1996 2nd Team All-Conf. UPI
1997 2nd Team All-NFL Associated Press
1999 1st Team All-NFL Sporting News
2001 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
2002 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
2002 1st Team All-NFL Associated Press
2002 1st Team All-NFL Pro Football Writers
2002 1st Team All-NFL Sporting News
2003 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
2003 1st Team All-NFL Associated Press
2003 1st Team All-NFL Pro Football Writers
2003 1st Team All-NFL Sporting News
2004 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
2004 2nd Team All-NFL Associated Press
2005 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
2005 2nd Team All-NFL Associated Press
2006 2nd Team All-NFL Associated Press

maybe he didn't demonstrate enough after a tackle, like bruce smith, ray lewis, or that green guy. can't remember names, getting old.

[armyatc22]

Why is everyone saying Michael Strahan should be a 1st Ballot?

First off everyone knows Favre laid down for him BUT he is the single season sack record holder
He is only 5th all time in sacks
Only 7 probowls out of 20 years
NFL Def player of the year only once
NFC Def player of the year only twice

Yes he does have a ring and cohosts a show but those numbers don't scream 1st ballot HOF to me at all

[panamamyers]

Originally Posted by BAMBAM

Good thing some of the people in this thread don't have votes or some tremendous football players would be out in the cold because of their stats. Hopefully as time passes and the voters change they will continue to look at a player's career as more than just a bunch of numbers. You can't talk about the decade of the '90s without including in large part the Buffalo Bills and Andre Reed. Kelly, Thomas and Reed were the AFCs Aikman, Emmitt and Irvin during the 90's. Funny how their careers are looked at differently it seems because of one missed FG. (there's those stinkin' specialists again) Even with all the negativity surrounding those Bills for not winning it all, if 5 out of those 6 are in there is no reason for Reed to not make it 6 for 6.

Man, I sure hope the Hall of Fame does not look at it that way. Does Andre Reed belong in or not? Irvin had way better numbers as was discussed in my first post. Does not matter if Kelly and Thomas make it in. Does not matter if Amith, aAikman and Irvin make it in. Let's don't elect people because of relation. That's how we ended up with a guy like John Stallworth in there that should not even be in the Hall of the Very Good, much less Hall of Fame. Let's single out Andre Reed and look at if he was a Hall of Fame player. If he was, then he sure did not put up the statistics to back that claim up. Jimmy Smith, Drew Hill, Gary Clark among many others...all need to be in before Andre Reed.

[88horsepower]

Originally Posted by popmaz

Reed:4 Super Bowl appearances
Carter and Brown Combined: 1

This is a team stat. That's like saying Jim Plunkett is a better quarterback than Warren Moon since Plunkett had two Super Bowl appearances and Moon had zero.

Originally Posted by popmaz

Now this is a fun stat and oddly enough the exact stat that kept Art Monk out of the HOF for so long.....
Career yards per reception
Brown 13.65
Carter 12.63
Reed 13.88

No question, Reed made more "big plays" but I'm not sure that's the kind of stat that tips the scale for me. Overall, I think Carter and his 130 TDs along with both Brown and Carter's streak of consecutive 1,000 yard seasons does more for me than Reed's four 1,000 yard seasons scattered over the course of a 15 year career. Again, not saying Reed doesn't deserve to be in Canton. But I do think Brown and Carter are superior.

[popmaz]

Originally Posted by panamamyers

Man, I sure hope the Hall of Fame does not look at it that way. Does Andre Reed belong in or not? Irvin had way better numbers as was discussed in my first post. Does not matter if Kelly and Thomas make it in. Does not matter if Amith, aAikman and Irvin make it in. Let's don't elect people because of relation. That's how we ended up with a guy like John Stallworth in there that should not even be in the Hall of the Very Good, much less Hall of Fame. Let's single out Andre Reed and look at if he was a Hall of Fame player. If he was, then he sure did not put up the statistics to back that claim up. Jimmy Smith, Drew Hill, Gary Clark among many others...all need to be in before Andre Reed.

If it is all about the stats that you compile, I cannot wait for the class that includes Ricky Watters and Vinny Testaverde. I also would not consider John Stallworth a player who should not even be in the Hall of very good as you call it. He did not have huge numbers, but most wr in the 70's did not. Just remember, as John Facenda said, "great players aren't always great, but they are great when they have to be"

[Imac7065]

Originally Posted by armyatc22

Why is everyone saying Michael Strahan should be a 1st Ballot?

First off everyone knows Favre laid down for him BUT he is the single season sack record holder
He is only 5th all time in sacks
Only 7 probowls out of 20 years
NFL Def player of the year only once
NFC Def player of the year only twice

Yes he does have a ring and cohosts a show but those numbers don't scream 1st ballot HOF to me at all

To further your point.. Kevin Greene has more sacks and tackles (from the LB spot where it's harder to accumulate sacks)... not one person on here has Greene as a HOFer on their list it seems.

He was also a WCW wrestler before it was "cool" for athletes like Rodman, Tyson, and Karl Malone to jump in the ring lol

[dfr52]

Originally Posted by Imac7065

To further your point.. Kevin Greene has more sacks and tackles (from the LB spot where it's harder to accumulate sacks)... not one person on here has Greene as a HOFer on their list it seems.

He was also a WCW wrestler before it was "cool" for athletes like Rodman, Tyson, and Karl Malone to jump in the ring lol

Besides Allen I'd love to see him in the HOF this year but I'm not sure the voters will see it that way. Greene was also a good player against the run and more than held his own in coverage.

[88horsepower]

Originally Posted by Imac7065

To further your point.. Kevin Greene has more sacks and tackles (from the LB spot where it's harder to accumulate sacks)... not one person on here has Greene as a HOFer on their list it seems.

He was also a WCW wrestler before it was "cool" for athletes like Rodman, Tyson, and Karl Malone to jump in the ring lol

Many will argue that Kevin Greene was "only" a pass rusher and that he severely lacked in his ability to stop the run or cover against the pass. I'm not sure I completely agree with that senitment, but I've heard that argument from several people who watched him play, so there might be some credence to that.

[jusdukky]

Originally Posted by bearfield

maybe he didn't demonstrate enough after a tackle, like bruce smith, ray lewis, or that green guy. can't remember names, getting old.

He didn't demonstrate at all that I know of. He was an offensive lineman. Right Guard. Don't feel bad, I'm getting old too.

[allday_vikes]

Originally Posted by popmaz

Reed:4 Super Bowl appearances
Carter and Brown Combined: 1

LOL in that case, Charles Haley Should have been a first ballot HOFer!

Originally Posted by BAMBAM

Glad you don't speak for everyone. You must not have watched too many Bills games if you believe that he's way behind Carter and Brown.

Only thing Carter had on Reed was he had better hands, IMO the best hands of the three. Reed earned the tough yards over the middle and very few could run after the catch like Reed did, certainly not Carter. Plus he played all his home games outdoors in Buffalo not a dome or sunny California. HUGE difference.

Sorry Reed was good but he can't compare to Carter and Brown!

[dfr52]

Originally Posted by 88horsepower

Many will argue that Kevin Greene was "only" a pass rusher and that he severely lacked in his ability to stop the run or cover against the pass. I'm not sure I completely agree with that senitment, but I've heard that argument from several people who watched him play, so there might be some credence to that.

Late in his career he did transition into more of a pure pass rusher but that also had to do w/ teams paying more for pass rushers and his own "love" of getting sacks.

[88horsepower]

Originally Posted by popmaz

Just remember, as John Facenda said, "great players aren't always great, but they are great when they have to be"

Well, if that quote holds water then Andre Reed likely gets the shaft. In four Super Bowls he only once broke 100 yards and in the other three games he posted 62, 34, and 75 yards. He also never scored once in a Super Bowl. Not exactly great when he had to be.

[rtcrules]

Curley Culp (DT/G) and Dave Robinson (LB) are Vet Commitee guys and Id give them the ok. My modern picks would be:
Andre Reed (WR) - All the recievers are near equal and all belong in but he's waited the longest and this logjam at WR needs to start getting cleared out.
Bill Parcells (coach) - Think he's finally retired.
Jerome Bettis (RB) - Only non-reciever skill position player and wouldnt surprise me if he made it to the final 5.
Michael Strahan (DE) - Guess of modern D pick.
Will Shields (G) - An O-Lineman will make it and all deserve it so this is just a guess.

[Imac7065]

To those calling Kevin Greene "just a pass rusher"...

Ok.. lets go with this (even though he also had nearly 700 career tackles before 100 tackle seasons were the norm)

Jason Taylor...pass rushing DE/LB and future HOFer
Michael Strahan..pass rushing DE and future HOFer
Chris Dolmen... pass rushing DE and HOFer
Richard Dent...pass rushing DE and HOFer
Derrick Thomas..pass rushing LB and HOFer
John Randle..pass rushing DE.. and HOFer

What do all these guys have in common? The closest any come to Greene in career sacks is Doleman with 150.5... Greene had 160 (only fewer than Reggie White and Bruce Smith)

[lambeauleap87]

Honestly, do any of those guys not deserve to be in the Hall?

[88horsepower]

Originally Posted by lambeauleap87

Honestly, do any of those guys not deserve to be in the Hall?

I agree. I think all of them should someday get inducted. The guy who will probably get snubbed and has hardly been in any conversations is Aeneas Williams. Guy was an absolute force on a crappy team for over a decade. 55 career INTs, 8 Pro Bowls at two different positions. Total package as a defensive player and he gets almost no love.

[pjcowboy]

WR take longer to get in. Look at the history of WR getting in in the first few years of eligibility. Tim Brown was an All Pro at punt returner also.

Larry Allen and Jonathan Ogden are locks.
Haley should already be in! what a joke are you kidding me
Sapp is possibly not even a HOFer
Strahan won't get in this year but will be in
Carter should be in and until he does Brown and Reed have no chance
It might be Parcells and Modell year to get in

[lambeauleap87]

Originally Posted by 88horsepower

I agree. I think all of them should someday get inducted. The guy who will probably get snubbed and has hardly been in any conversations is Aeneas Williams. Guy was an absolute force on a crappy team for over a decade. 55 career INTs, 8 Pro Bowls at two different positions. Total package as a defensive player and he gets almost no love.

At first, I wasn't sure Williams should be in...but then I looked at his stats, but the 8 Pro Bowls and three All-Pro selections said he wasn't undeserving.