BGS Black Labels, Joe Clemons (eBay ID: wjc75056), and Illegitimate Grading

[Bassplayah101]

I know this is a little off topic, but do we know what kind of lighting graders use while assessing a cards condition?

I would find it surprising if this info was kept secret, but one never knows.


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[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by Bassplayah101

I know this is a little off topic, but do we know what kind of lighting graders use while assessing a cards condition?

I would find it surprising if this info was kept secret, but one never knows.


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sun glasses

[MNmoose78]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

That number is entirely false and a significant underestimate. lisu claimed Joe sold 170 non-black label 10s over the last year, and that PWCC sold just 85. Those numbers were from Terapeak.

My ebay search last night of "pristine pwcc -psa -sgc -label" yielded 205 sales dating back to mid-March. PWCC sold more than 17k items in their last auction round. To suggest they sold just 85 non-black label BGS 10s over the last year is moronic.

I figured it was ridiculously low, just funny how PG things this guy is hardly making any money from his submissions!!

[kyaa]

Originally Posted by pgisback

This is the problem I have with this line of thinking. You are saying it's a "1 card order" based on the serial numbers being in order.

When you look that number up the serial # before it was graded on

11142976 Feb 25th
11142977 Feb 19th
11142978 Feb 25th

There's no logical sense to those serial numbers. That's my point, the entire theory is based on serial numbers, and from what I see, there is no consistency with how BGS assigns serial numbers to orders.

This case has little to do with serial numbers. It's the amount of Black Labels and 10s vs. total cards graded and the consistentcy of orders consistenting of only Black Labels.

Even Joe has admitted that his small orders 3/3 Blacks, 8/8 Blacks, 22/22 Blacks, were not part of larger batches. So please stop suggesting that they were. Please, please be decent and stop clogging up the thread.

[ThoseBackPages]

So, a ONE CARD submission of a base A&G card results in a BLACK LABEL?

[salthill]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

So, a ONE CARD submission of a base A&G card results in a BLACK LABEL?

Crypto/Bitcoin?

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by salthill

Crypto/Bitcoin?

was Acuna

[dmanrico]

Honestly , we all just need to ignore Pgis. He continues to steer the conversation away from the core issue. Example A: he just ignored Kyaa’s entire second paragraph in his last post to try and make this a serial number discussion.

[Bassplayah101]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

sun glasses

Lol, thanks bro. This is not that hard to believe.

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[Onepocketj]

Gee, all he would have to do is post one of his submission forms of these "huge orders" and it would clear everything up. Wonder why he doesn't...

[Bob Loblaw]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

So, a ONE CARD submission of a base A&G card results in a BLACK LABEL?

This is somewhat damning, if it can be proved.

Well, everything is damning, but this even more so. Why submit ONE card that will lose you money if you get a 9.5 or even a 10... but the black label will make money.

None of us plebeians can even consider the possibility of a BL, but this guy not only considers it, but assumes it.

Because he has guarantors.

#throwawaythekey

[hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

So, a ONE CARD submission of a base A&G card results in a BLACK LABEL?

He meets the Johnny grader for a quick lunch at Wendy's, stop next door at Target, buy a quick pack of cards, pull the Acuna--"hey Johnny when you get back into the office give this a quick BL"

And lunch is paid for too.

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[ThoseBackPages]

man, i cant get past this

"2/19/19 (1 card order / 1 Black Label)
0011142977 2018 Topps Allen and Ginter Ronald Acuna Jr. RC BGS 10 Black Label""

This is a "i got stones" submission.

paying the quick turnaround, one card fee for a $3 card?

[salthill]

Originally Posted by robert0629

but the statistical probability of him receiving this many black labels is concerning.

If we could calculate the probability (and the number of standard deviations away from the mean his results are) it would be eye-wateringly high.

but it doesn't make a lot of sense to turn down six figures when you're probably making a little bit more than minimum wage.

According to their job posting, Junior graders at BGS are paid $14-15 per hour.

[salthill]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

This is a "i got stones" submission.
paying the quick turnaround, one card fee for a $3 card?

Don’t be so harsh. When he opened that pack at the LCS he was probably so overcome by the card’s raw natural beauty that he rushed to the airport, flew straight to Dallas (no connecting flights to get in the way of this wonder), and hand delivered it for same-day grading - lest exposure to air and direct light bump it down a half grade in the meantime.

[kyaa]

Originally Posted by pgisback

Because it's based on serial numbers. Let me give you a really easy example of why this doesn't work. This is the exact same card submitted on the same day, the Black Label is sandwiched between two cards from different dates while on the same date the BGS 10s are 100+ serial numbers above.

Same card...
2018 Bowman Chrome Hastag Trending Vlad RC


#11142989 BLACK LABEL: Feb 19th

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VLADIMIR-GU...oAAOSwertcmDtQ

The serial number before it and after it
#11142988 Mar 29th (Some Yu-gi-oh card)
#11142990 Feb 25th (MJ Fleer Sticker)

So this is being considered a 1 card order. But wait over 100 serial numbers away

#11143143 BGS 10: Feb 19th

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VLADIMIR-GU...oAAOSwxbFcbruz

Please stop engaging this troll.

[Onepocketj]

Originally Posted by kyaa

Please stop engaging this troll.

He's in his own little world. Doesn't even matter that Joe admitted they were small orders

[jr24ai3]

Originally Posted by kyaa

This case has little to do with serial numbers. It's the amount of Black Labels and 10s vs. total cards graded and the consistentcy of orders consistenting of only Black Labels.

Even Joe has admitted that his small orders 3/3 Blacks, 8/8 Blacks, 22/22 Blacks, were not part of larger batches. So please stop suggesting that they were. Please, please be decent and stop clogging up the thread.

I saw where he admitted 3/3. Can you please quote where he said he went 8/8 and 22/22?

[jr24ai3]

Originally Posted by pgisback

It has everything to do with serial numbers. You are saying 3/3, 8/8 based on serial numbers.

I don't think we have ever agreed on anything until now? Serial numbers matter on the subs. I have larger orders that skip serial numbers and I've had orders that group certain color labels together. Just because the serial number after a Black label is Yu-Gi-Oh, that doesn't mean that was the end of his order

[jcmint]

Hi Brian, I was your toughest critic on FCB and dont remember most of this crap LOL.

Originally Posted by LEAF

I'm not admitting to the all the stuff you posted, BUT we did make missteps back then and I am man enough to admit it.

When you misstep, you MUST learn from it or you will again.

You dont have to like me or Leaf, but denying the progress shows clear bias.

BG

[discostu]

* When the situation is hopeless, there's nothing to worry about. *

[Kobe101]

I could care less one way another there is always going to be someone scamming the system in basically every single thing in life. So even if the accusations are true and it stops it will just be someone else doing something similar next month.

But I saw his defense and the claim of having to have I believe 5 ppl in your pocket in order for someone to pull off would make it tough. But then again all you would really need to have is the data submitter on your side and you would know when he’s working. And a grader who the data submitter would ensure grades the cards. The other 3 ppl he mentioned I believe the slabber, registry input and mailer this would just be a job for them and they certainly wouldn’t care to make sure the grades have integrity.

But why is he submitting Mike Trout and Mookie Betts 2018 base cards? If you knew you were going to get good cards wouldn’t you just send in rookie cards ?

[Blue_Devil]

Originally Posted by Onepocketj

Gee, all he would have to do is post one of his submission forms of these "huge orders" and it would clear everything up. Wonder why he doesn't...

Would it clear it up? If it were 22 black labels out of 1000 would that clear it up? Along with all the Pristines as well? Would still be a big stretch.

[dmanrico]

Originally Posted by Onepocketj

He's in his own little world. Doesn't even matter that Joe admitted they were small orders

Agreed. He continues to completely ignore this fact because it doesn’t fit his narrative.

Everyone please stop engaging with him. If he would engage in a real discussion and not ignore facts, than I have no problem with differing viewpoints. But when you ignore items that continue to be brought up, it’s just not useful anymore.

[chezball]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

I respect nothing about pg. He is a troll and I'm putting him back on my ignore list. Never should have taken the clown off it.

tru dat