More fakes from China - PMG, Star Rubies, Plat Medallion

[AlabamaSlamma]

Originally Posted by jjohnson814

Update: I just got off the phone with PSA. He was extremely helpful and genuine. They have been reading this thread and are taking steps to prevent this in the future. It's pretty awesome to hear him talk about joining with the blowout community to come up with solutions. They want to use our knowledge.

For my case specifically I'll be sending them my Penny to re-evaluate and go from there. They will reference it against known authentic cards from Grant. Awesome stuff guys.

I've talked about this with another member, but does this statement (comparing to Grant's legit copies) mean that PSA keeps some kind of database of their graded card images? If so, that's a very welcomed sign.

[SPauthentic84]

Originally Posted by jjohnson814

Update: I just got off the phone with PSA. He was extremely helpful and genuine. They have been reading this thread and are taking steps to prevent this in the future. It's pretty awesome to hear him talk about joining with the blowout community to come up with solutions. They want to use our knowledge.

For my case specifically I'll be sending them my Penny to re-evaluate and go from there. They will reference it against known authentic cards from Grant. Awesome stuff guys.

Great job. Kudos to you and PSA.

Were any specifics given on how to clean things up?

Also, hopefully BGS is reading this too

[jjohnson814]

Originally Posted by AlabamaSlamma

I've talked about this with another member, but does this statement (comparing to Grant's legit copies) mean that PSA keeps some kind of database of their graded card images? If so, that's a very welcomed sign.

He didn't say that to me. He did say they are aware of the 90s basketball fake issues and are trained for it but would like our help to improve. I've always felt this disconnect with the grading companies and the blowout community. This felt like a very good step in the right direction.

[jjohnson814]

Originally Posted by SPauthentic84

Great job. Kudos to you and PSA.

Were any specifics given on how to clean things up?

Also, hopefully BGS is reading this too

Yeah. He specifically said to reach out to them directly with information on possible fakes and patterns we see, similar to what we're doing in this thread. He said he's aware we don't always want to post publicly because that helps the fakes get better so we should contact PSA directly.

[SPauthentic84]

Originally Posted by jjohnson814

Yeah. He specifically said to reach out to them directly with information on possible fakes and patterns we see, similar to what we're doing in this thread. He said he's aware we don't always want to post publicly because that helps the fakes get better so we should contact PSA directly.

Thats great. I wonder if anyone has any connects to BGS to pass that on. Put a little peer pressure on them lol

[jjohnson814]

Originally Posted by SPauthentic84

Thats great. I wonder if anyone has any connects to BGS to pass that on. Put a little peer pressure on them lol

I know a couple people in this thread have been in contact with them and haven't gotten nearly as far as I did with PSA.

Frankly, I've seen way more fakes in BGS holders than PSA. Granted, that's not a completely fair comparison, but it's alarming how many I've seen recently.

[AlabamaSlamma]

Originally Posted by jjohnson814

He didn't say that to me. He did say they are aware of the 90s basketball fake issues and are trained for it but would like our help to improve. I've always felt this disconnect with the grading companies and the blowout community. This felt like a very good step in the right direction.

Gotcha.

Regardless, you're right. PSA wants to get this right, and seems to be working towards improving things on their end. Excellent news.

[gslayton]

Good stuff ahead. Chicago fanatics is this weekend and I'll be meeting PSA with pack pulled serial numbered cards from my pc and my pmg collection that I've been meticulous about authenticity. Plenty of examples for their database



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[jjohnson814]

Originally Posted by gslayton

Good stuff ahead. Chicago fanatics is this weekend and I'll be meeting PSA with pack pulled serial numbered cards from my pc and my pmg collection that I've been meticulous about authenticity. Plenty of examples for their database



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This is so awesome. PSA just sent me a form for my Penny. They will have the fake in hand Saturday.

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[rogermaris]

Just a heads up, I've identified more fakes of Michael Jordan, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, and Penny Hardaway. Those appear to be the only players so far.

Does anyone know the buyer of this Duncan? I feel like I saw someone post it here...

[clocsta2323]

Im surprised the basketball market hasn't been ruined beyond all repair by all this crap. Frauds/fakes/patches/counterfeits. Godspeed to anyone spending hard earned money in this future Netflix documentary series.

[thealonzoman]

Any thoughts on this one? Not saying it's fake, but I just want an opinion on it before bidding... any PMG experts around?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-ALONZO...59.m1431.l2649

[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by thealonzoman

Any thoughts on this one? Not saying it's fake, but I just want an opinion on it before bidding... any PMG experts around?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-ALONZO...59.m1431.l2649

As far as I'm aware, the regular PMGs are still safe (although there are backdoored copies with fake stamps floating around).

The parallel sets that have been faked are:

• Championship PMGS
• 97-98 star rubies
• 98-99 star rubies (series 1)
• 96-97 platinum medallions
• 97-98 super raves
• 98-99 super raves
• 98-99 gem masters

[spurfanattech]

Beckett graded 4 fake Duncans that originated out of Taiwan that I know of. All fakes and from the same source. This is one of them. I have shared the photos I’ve compiled with the people that are in close conversation with PSA as evidence.


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[AlabamaSlamma]

Originally Posted by clocsta2323

Im surprised the basketball market hasn't been ruined beyond all repair by all this crap. Frauds/fakes/patches/counterfeits. Godspeed to anyone spending hard earned money in this future Netflix documentary series.

So true. Thank God these same issues have never popped up in the high end baseball market.

[duron]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

As far as I'm aware, the regular PMGs are still safe (although there are backdoored copies with fake stamps floating around).

The parallel sets that have been faked are:

• Championship PMGS
• 97-98 star rubies
• 98-99 star rubies (series 1)
• 96-97 platinum medallions
• 97-98 super raves

98-99 Thunder Super Raves too, no?

And the list makes sense when you consider none of these parallels use any etching or embossing. If either are used, it's minimal. Case in point, Metal Championship was mostly non etched foil. All other Metal releases were full-card etched foil.
Even when you think of non-parallel insert sets that have been made from scratch - BMOC & Z-Peat, Cut Above, etc. - even if they use foil, it's all smooth, never etched.

Gonna really start to blow if more nuanced textures become faked.

[plasticmoz]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

Just remembered something else -- a few months ago, a member here sent me pictures of two Penny PMGs being offered from Taiwan. At the time I told him that the pictures weren't good enough and that I wasn't familiar enough with the set, but that as far as I knew, PMGS were not being faked. I also urged him to use a lot of caution since the seller was from Taiwan.

I am now nearly certain that both are from the same batch of counterfeits as the one currently listed on ebay. Here are pictures. The case on the left has a real slip, but a fake BGS case. Although the pictures are low res, the fake BGS case, along with a few other details I cross referenced against the high res ebay scan, leads me to believe they are definitely fake. Here are the photos:

I had the same offer - in this case the seller was arteepower and MJ/Kobe versions of this card (both fake).

[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by duron

98-99 Thunder Super Raves too, no?

And the list makes sense when you consider none of these parallels use any etching or embossing. If either are used, it's minimal. Case in point, Metal Championship was mostly non etched foil. All other Metal releases were full-card etched foil.
Even when you think of non-parallel insert sets that have been made from scratch - BMOC & Z-Peat, Cut Above, etc. - even if they use foil, it's all smooth, never etched.

Gonna really start to blow if more nuanced textures become faked.

Thank you, forgot about those ones. Added to the list.

And yes I agree. I've also noticed that they haven't tried to fake anything acetate based or with lenticular patterns.

It also makes sense when you realize several of the sets on the list use the same technologies. I believe the 98 and 99 super raves share the same foil pattern as the 97 series 1 star rubies. Would explain why they haven't started faking series 2 yet...

Just a warning though, although the etched 98-99 metal universe PMGs are safe for now, I have reason to believe they may be faking the masterpieces...

[ninjacookies]

Most anything with a simple holo/foil surface is not safe. Seems it is childs play to those Chinese factories now. AKA anything but the first PMG's (with exception of the stamped bankruptcy cards) and a select few others.

I'd be weary of just about anything 90's insert related as a buyer. Probably a lot more common mid end fakes from other subsets that are floating around now with not the slightest of suspicion.

[Jocel]

Readin out these thread..

What i heard to my source most high end 90’s inserts where made and done in taiwan for fun. And some dude tried to scam international buyers (outside taiwan) and it simply worked out.
Running from
1996-97 BMOC(base/z peat), A Cut Above
1997-98 PMG’s, Super Raves, Rubies, Autographics,
1998-99 PMG’s, Rubies, Refractor Die cuts

And the lists goes on and on.. Got some of my friends known this taiwan collector who has multiple pmg’s.. his a known super collector in taiwan but me and the rest of the guys believe he could have multiple fake pmg’s, rubies, raves and etc. But hence his known as a super collector, most of his fake products have been overshadowed by his name. His name somewhat covered them all to let people believe that all his items are legit. Without proper research on his cards and u will get a big wow looking how many sets he has. I have seen an item posted on these thread which a background seems very familiar to me, im sorry but i wont name drop that person. Probably i maybe wrong, he purchased them without himself knowing its fake and he just take it or maybe the other way around. Coz there is no proof to my sources that he could be part of some what mafia goin on these high end 90’s cards in taiwan. So i cant be responsible for name dropping without proof. But after looking to some of his cards shared by various multiple resource. Man a few of his high end 90’s inserts are fake. Especially the PMG’s, RUBIES and even some of his autographed 90’s(not that much but some)

The most obviouse fake BGS graded cards sent from taiwan was the 1996-96 Z-FORCE BIG MEN ON COURT and 1996-96 Z-FORCE BIG MEN ON COURT Z-PEAT. U guy can check pop report on BGS. Ull see the consistent amount of succession grading of these cards there somewhere beyond 2008 so probably 008 starting serial number if im not wrong to remember..

BTW, most taiwan faked cards flew to china to some high end collectors as well.. so probably when they found out its fake, they could have sold it off.

This is my share for this thread..

Thanks!!


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[spurfanattech]

Originally Posted by Jocel

Readin out these thread..

What i heard to my source most high end 90’s inserts where made and done in taiwan for fun. And some dude tried to scam international buyers (outside taiwan) and it simply worked out.
Running from
1996-97 BMOC(base/z peat), A Cut Above
1997-98 PMG’s, Super Raves, Rubies, Autographics,
1998-99 PMG’s, Rubies, Refractor Die cuts

And the lists goes on and on.. Got some of my friends known this taiwan collector who has multiple pmg’s.. his a known super collector in taiwan but me and the rest of the guys believe he could have multiple fake pmg’s, rubies, raves and etc. But hence his known as a super collector, most of his fake products have been overshadowed by his name. His name somewhat covered them all to let people believe that all his items are legit. Without proper research on his cards and u will get a big wow looking how many sets he has. I have seen an item posted on these thread which a background seems very familiar to me, im sorry but i wont name drop that person. Probably i maybe wrong, he purchased them without himself knowing its fake and he just take it or maybe the other way around. Coz there is no proof to my sources that he could be part of some what mafia goin on these high end 90’s cards in taiwan. So i cant be responsible for name dropping without proof. But after looking to some of his cards shared by various multiple resource. Man a few of his high end 90’s inserts are fake. Especially the PMG’s, RUBIES and even some of his autographed 90’s(not that much but some)

The most obviouse fake BGS graded cards sent from taiwan was the 1996-96 Z-FORCE BIG MEN ON COURT and 1996-96 Z-FORCE BIG MEN ON COURT Z-PEAT. U guy can check pop report on BGS. Ull see the consistent amount of succession grading of these cards there somewhere beyond 2008 so probably 008 starting serial number if im not wrong to remember..

BTW, most taiwan faked cards flew to china to some high end collectors as well.. so probably when they found out its fake, they could have sold it off.

This is my share for this thread..

Thanks!!


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Unfortunately, your post is very accurate.


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[27426]

Do you guys think the new revolution cards are just as easy to fake like some of the 90's foil inserts?

[minnesotachill]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

Just a heads up, I've identified more fakes of Michael Jordan, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, and Penny Hardaway. Those appear to be the only players so far.

Does anyone know the buyer of this Duncan? I feel like I saw someone post it here...

This is probably one of the easiest to spot fakes. Look at the outline around the player pic. It's just horrendous. You can see a real one on buynicecards sold auctions on his website and see what the real one looks like.

I've noticed a lot of these fakes have the outline around the players body, also in the other faked ones.

[jjohnson814]

I have an update for everyone. PSA called me today saying my penny pmg champ was actually determined to be fake. They are removing the card from the pop, reimbursing me the value of the card and also keeping it for future reference.

They were very genuine and sincere in their apology but also their commitment to preventing this in the future. I for one have an increased faith in PSA. Great job on them.

Now what should I do about the seller? Put him on blast?

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[rj.cataldo]

Originally Posted by minnesotachill

This is probably one of the easiest to spot fakes. Look at the outline around the player pic. It's just horrendous. You can see a real one on buynicecards sold auctions on his website and see what the real one looks like.

I've noticed a lot of these fakes have the outline around the players body, also in the other faked ones.

I have looked at a lot of the cards in this thread and was not quite sure why they were fake. This one is undoubtedly bad and just looks off even if you know nothing about the cards. I'm surprised this was slabbed by beckett.